Vaccines: A chat with the nurse at our doctor’s office

September 30, 2010 · 70 comments

vaccine

My regular readers know that in our family, after hours of research on vaccine dangers, we’ve chosen to have our youngest get some vaccines, but no where near all that the doctors recommend.  (I only say our youngest because with the older three we didn’t know better, and hadn’t learned yet to question everything.)  If you want to read more about my research process, check out these posts on immunization decisions.

How is your doctor’s office with this…?

Our doctor, and the whole doctor’s office actually, have always been great about it, and I know this isn’t the case in many offices.  When I was pregnant for our youngest, I said to Dr. D, “What would you say if I told you that I’m not sure about the whole issue of vaccines, and may not have him get some of the recommended shots?”  He said, “Well, I’d try to talk you into it, but ultimately it’s your decision.”  We went on to have more talks about it and he calmly explained why he absolutely has his own kids vaccinated.  I explained why I was questioning it, and neither of us convinced each other.  I was completely OK with that, because he was respecting our choice as parents, even though he disagreed.  Throughout these past five years since our son was born, whenever it was time (based on my research) for him to get another shot, I’d just call the office and set it up with the nurse.  When we’d get there they’d ask, “What’s he getting today?”  It was obvious I was a rarity, especially when I’d ask questions about the type of preservatives in the shot, etc. (I absolutely cannot believe more people are not asking them these questions), but they never made me feel uncomfortable in any way.

“The Letters”

Well recently I’ve been getting these letters in the mail from the doctor’s office, listing all the shots we were “behind” on with our kids, strongly encouraging us to get them in right away.  I’d toss it into the trash and another one would come with big red letters, “SECOND NOTICE!” stamped on it.  So I called the office and said, “Here’s the deal.  We get some shots, but not all, Dr. D knows this, so can you take us off the list for these letters?”  After a few days the nurse in charge of this called me…

Again, she was very nice and respectful.

She explained that because they have a handful of patients who don’t vaccinate on schedule or vaccinate at all, a bunch of doctors, mine included, got together to come up with a plan to protect themselves legally, which I understand.  So she’s sending me some forms we need to sign in order to not receive these letters anymore.  She said, “Dr. D. told me to tell you not to worry about the part that says we reserve the right to discharge you if you don’t follow the recommended shot schedule.”

I decided to ask her a question.

  • Me:  “So only a handful of people question this shot schedule?  That surprises me that more parents don’t become informed on all this, and that more doctors don’t learn both sides of the issue.
  • J:  “Oh, we go to vaccination conferences every year and they explain both sides so we know what these parents are hearing and reading.  But I’m still very much pro-vaccine.  You have to be careful what you read on the internet, that’s why we include in this paperwork a list of approved sites we recommend reading.”
  • shot Me:  “What scares me are things like the time I came in and was told that a couple shots could be given together according to the CDC schedule.  But when I asked the nurses to double check that they didn’t have mercury, we found the insert from the drug company that said not to give those together.  It’s not very reassuring when the CDC and the drug company recommendations contradict each other and no one seems to know what they’re doing.”  (Read more about that story here.)
  • J:  “Oh, we do our research, we know what can be given together and what can’t.”  (I’m thinking, “Huh? Did you hear what I just said happened at your office?!”)
  • Me:  “For me it’s just common sense. The number of shots kids received 20 years ago compared to now, it’s just too much!  They used to maybe get 3 different disease micro-organisms at once, now they get 3 in one shot, and 1 or 2 more shots besides!”
  • J:  “Well we learned at this conference that kids could actually handle up to 20 different disease organisms at once, not that there would be enough spots on their body to give them that many at once!”
  • Me:  “They are seriously telling doctors this?  Wow.  Doesn’t that make you think about all that they’re putting into these little bodies?”
  • J:  “No, because their immune systems can handle it.”
  • Me:  “Maybe some kids’ immune systems can handle it, but most kids these days are eating so much junk that their immune systems are shot and they can’t handle all this.”
  • J:  “Well, that’s why it’s good that the whole shot schedule is finished by the time they’re two, and then their next shot isn’t until they’re 4 years old, so in the time when they’re getting the most vaccines, they’re on breastmilk or formula.”
  • Me:  “All those shots, going into their tiny developing brains?!  And commercial formula is nothing but junk, but that’s another day’s topic, I won’t get going on that one.  Thanks for chatting with me about all this.”
  • J:  “Sure, anytime.”

So tell me, what do you guys think about all this?

Here’s the follow up post to this one.

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...

  • Share this article


  • Stay Connected!

  • Get new articles and recipes, plus help getting and keeping your family on real food! Also coupons/discounts, and STAY signed up to be automatically entered in gift card giveaways!

  • { 70 comments… read them below or add one }

    1 Sarah September 30, 2010 at 1:47 am

    It sounds almost exactly like the conversations I’ve had at our doctor’s office. Sometimes I think we’ve been bullied into going with the regular shot schedule. Several people in my attachment parenting group have been kicked out of their peds practices for refusing to vaccinate.

    True story: When I was in the hospital on bed rest (for 2 months!) with my pregnancy, several of the nurses closed the door and talked vaccinations with me. All of them advised me to refuse the Hep B vaccination. Even the most pro hospital, pro-medicine nurses seemed to wonder why infants (especially from a Mom and Dad who’d had all the blood testing we went through with our fertility issues) need a shot for a sexually transmitted disease in their first hours of life. Several of them also told me to do an alternate vaccination schedule. But, again, they closed the door, looked both ways, and said all of this in hushed voices.

    Reply

    2 Stanley Fishman September 30, 2010 at 3:00 am

    Kelly, you do not have to sign those forms, and you should get legal advice before you do.

    My wife has two very good friends who used to be pediatric nurses. Neither one of them would give a single vaccination to their own children, not one. Even though they were under terrible pressure to do so. They saw what vaccines can do to children.

    Doctors make far too much money these days. Most of them are all about money, not healing. And far too many of them are too arrogant to have any common sense. It is much easier and much more profitable for them to go along with the company line.

    What I think of the nurse you talked to cannot be printed on your blog. I personally know so many children who have been seriously harmed by vaccines. Some or these stories are heartbreaking. I will never be vaccinated for anything, and I would not vaccinate children for anything.

    Reply

    3 Anna September 30, 2010 at 4:21 am

    These days I tend to say very little at doctors appts that isn’t absolutely essential (a real effort for me, too, LOL). The too-short appt time is wasted when our discussion is sidetracked, frustration and irritation builds on both sides, or worse, something erroneous or misleading is marked in the chart (it’s amazing how different a doctor’s interpretation of your visit can be – they can completely NOT GET why you came in). As much as I’ve love our HMO doctors to even acknowledge “healthcare as I see it”, I know I am not going to change them or the system, so I am not butting my head against that particular brick wall.

    Instead, I go to out-of-network doctors for some of our “well-care”, where the doctors’ viewpoints are not necessarily exactly the same as mine, but at least they are on the wavelength.

    Reply

    4 NancyO September 30, 2010 at 7:45 am

    While I’m always amazed that more medical folks don’t question the whole issue of subjecting little bodies and brains to toxins, I’m reminded of some research my husband teaches to his university organizational behavior classes on paradigms: paradigms are so deeply embedded that even scientists typically cannot accept, and will therefore reject, evidence that is before their eyes when it contradicts their paradigm. Vaccinations are a classic example that illustrates this (intelligent design is another).
    That doctors will discharge patients for exercising their parental rights is almost unbelievable! Personally I’ve chosen to view myself as a doctor’s “client” instead of his/her “patient”. That changes how I view the services being offered by him and his staff, and it becomes easier when I need to refuse a service that is being offered. In other words, I might accept diagnostic blood work or X-ray services, but refuse an advised treatment so as to pursue a more holistic approach to resolving my issue.

    Reply

    5 ValerieH September 30, 2010 at 8:39 am

    I think that nurse is brainwashed.

    Reply

    6 Amy Floyd September 30, 2010 at 8:49 am

    And just who sponsored that vaccination “conference”, and who compiled that list of accepted sites? When I get frustrated with the mainstream brainwashed society, I remind myself that I used to be one of them. It keeps me humble, and it reminds me to educate gently, not expecting to change anyone’s mind, but to simply plant the seeds of divergent thinking.

    Reply

    7 Amy September 30, 2010 at 8:52 am

    good job, Kelly!
    We, too, have been getting these letters in the mail for the kids since we also decided on limited vaccines.
    It’s like big brother is saying, “you must conform or else!”
    Thanks for the reminder to call the office and let them know where we stand.
    We can all pray for each other’s eyes and hearts to be more open to the fullness of the Truth. :-) It’s much easier to think charitably on this issue and others when we realize how much we are all learning each day.
    Peace.

    Reply

    8 Tiffany September 30, 2010 at 8:58 am

    My kids do not even have a family doctor anymore because the last two booted us out of the practice due to non vaccination. In Ohio they are really pushing doctors to refuse to see kids who aren’t vaccinated. I asked the last Doc why it is he thinks it is fair for them to push these kids aside and not give them the care that other kids are getting? He flat out old me that they are doing this to “force” parents to reconsider their decisions.. aka the more they stick together and refuse non vaccinated the kids the more likely the parents will be pressured into caving. I asked him “oh so your trying to blackmail the parents?” He got a smug smile and said he doesn’t view as it blackmail if he thinks it is what is BEST for these innocent kids.

    AND the lack of knowledge this man had was scary! He told me vaccines have ZERO risk.. NONE at all. I asked him why the vaccine inserts list numerous risks associated with each individual shot and he stammered and said that clearly they were making stuff up to cover their bases. Seriously? At that point I realized the man was an idiot and a liar so I was glad he was giving us the pink slip.

    Reply

    9 Erin September 30, 2010 at 9:22 am

    The insurance companies punish the doctors who have patients without 100% compliance. They won’t give them as much reimbursement for a patient who isn’t 100% up to date. So…when doctors are kicking patients out of their practice, it’s totally a monetary decision on either the doctor or the clinic administration’s part. We’re allowed to stay with our doctor, b/c so far, she and the administration don’t “require” her to kick us out. RIDICULOUS!

    Reply

    10 nicole September 30, 2010 at 9:27 am

    I have a 2 year old, who has never been vaccinated. EVER! And she never will be. She saw a pediatrician at the hospital and once for a “well” baby check up, and has NEVER been back. She has had raw cow’s milk formula since birth and still drinks it up in a bottle 3 times a day. She eats WHOLE foods, and no gluten. We are not perfect, but i am doing everything in my power to nourish my child and build her immune system. Has she ever been “sick”, sure she has. She has had a few colds, ear aches, fevers. But she has never been given antibiotics or Motrin/Tylenol. I would like to challenge your readers to stop going to see doctors. If you cannot trust them ENTIRELY, why do you trust them at all? Find a Naturopathic Doctor! Start giving homeopathics for illnesses! Stop the insanity of “well baby” check ups! You know if your child is “well” or not! I have a 12 year old as well, who now knows which homeopathics to take for illnesses. She is not home schooled, she is not ridiculed from her friends for eating whole foods, she never eats “crap” food. She is admired and more of her friends want to eat like her. They actually want to sleep over just to experience our food movement. How beautiful is that! Stand up for what you believe in.
    Ok… i’m finished and stepping off of my soap box now… wow! that felt good. have a great day everyone!

    Reply

    11 emily September 30, 2010 at 9:29 am

    i highly suggest to any parent to read dr. Sears The Vaccine Book. he fairly represents the concerns, the pros and cons of all recomended vccine. he also has a section writte forphysicians, explaining that he isnt against vaccines but IS for consume/patient self-education and right to know on the parents part. he also has a reassuring website -http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/

    my doc is a rariety, I have known him since i was a babe myself and now my kids and i see him if we need to. many of his patients are into “alternative” healthcae practices and many of them have homebirths and dont vax and he is completly accepting of patients right to choose thier own healthcare decisions and never badgers his patients.

    Reply

    12 Heather M September 30, 2010 at 9:34 am

    How can a person(s) go to a vaccine conference and hear “both sides” of the story from the person(s) putting it on – it doesn’t work that way. As another commentor said, “big brother”.

    Reply

    13 Tiffany September 30, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Nicole, for us the reason to have a regular doctor on call as needed is because many youth programs require annual physicals by a family physician (MD or DO). My 4 year old couldn’t get into speech and occupational therapy without one either. I don’t want to tell my kids that they can’t play organized sports, attend gymnastics, etc. because of our choice not to vaccinate and we shouldn’t have to. We don’t do “well visits” and if we have emergencies like the broken arm we had a couple months ago we go to urgent care or the hospital but sometimes kids have to have exams to be able to do fun things with their friends.

    Reply

    14 Sue September 30, 2010 at 9:55 am

    I am also tired of arguing with doctors and I’ve just started practicing avoidance. I keep my fingers crossed and hope that the kids don’t get sick during “flu shot season”, so that I don’t have to refuse the flu shot that they offer me. I’ve been fortunate in the past few years. My kids get sizable doses of Vitamin D and they just haven’t been getting viruses. My teenage son came down with pinkeye last week. Luckily the flu vaccines aren’t available yet, so no one offered us one. Now, if the kids can just stay healthy until the vaccines run out, I can avoid this argument for another year.

    I was fortunate enough to find a more alternative family doctor who prefers to treat problems with supplements rather than medication. He was able to successfully treat my daughter’s bi-polar disorder with lithium orotate (an OTC supplement) rather than prescription drugs. The problem is that he’s 45 minutes away and doesn’t take insurance. So I don’t want to shlep all the way down there if my daughter just needs a strep test, but if he shares my view on the flu vaccine, I might just do that if she needs care during flu shot season.

    He was the first doctor to tell me that I wasn’t giving my daughter enough vitamin D (2000 IUS a day), rather than being stunned and wondering if it wasn’t too much. So I’m hopeful that he’ll also be more cautious about vaccines.

    Reply

    15 Peggy September 30, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Not only would I consult a lawyer before signing their form, I’d write up my own. I’d document all the research you’ve done, cite laws from other countries, include lots of Bible references, your own personal vaccination schedule, and make sure you cover your knowing respect for your responsibility as a parent. Then, I’d take your letter and theirs into their office. “You sign mine and I’ll sign yours. No? Okay then, I respectfully decline to sign yours but you may keep my letter in your files as documentation of my refusal.”

    Reply

    16 Elisa September 30, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I’m an RN in a hospital and family practice clinic. I hate most of what I see the doc’s doing but I have influence on my patients when the door is closed. When I’m rooming patients and talking to them about my problems sometimes I’m able to recommend some alternative treatments and always encourage them to research things instead of accepting everything that is prescribed byt he MD’s blindly. Most people don’t seem to care. They just want a pill for this and a pill for that, and make sure it’s strong and covered by their insurance. Docs hand out the free samples from the drug companies like they’re candy. As far as vaccinations go I won’t let my kids get any. My ped has been ok with it so far because she knows I’ve done my research and am firm about it. Also, my youngest is autistic and after that diagnosis, no doctor is going to put up a fight with me. More parents need to open their eyes to what is going into their kids.

    Reply

    17 nicole September 30, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Tiffany,
    I appreciate your response, however, you missed my point. I was not referring to getting a physical from a doctor because you need it for a sport or OT, I was referring to going to see a doctor for a “well baby” check up when you yourself know that your baby is well. It’s my thoughts, not one that I would expect anyone else to share. In my state, our youth programs do not require physicals, so I don’t know what i would do in that situation, but we do have forms that you can fill out that opt out on vaccinations. I have done this with absolutely no problem. I would absolutely go to the ER for a broken arm. But I would not go to the doctor for a sore throat. That’s what i was also referring to. Love the comments that are coming in. It’s great to hear other people’s perspective and share in conversation.

    Reply

    18 Lori September 30, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Sue,
    You don’t have to waste money taking your kids to the doctor for pink eye! Strong tea water (yes, basic tea unsweetened) dropped into the eye (2-3 drops per eye) with an eye dropper 2-3 times per hour for severe cases till begin to clear some, then once an hour till bedtime, will usually clear up the worst case in one day. Been using this for 28 years, came from my husband’s grandma who just celebreated her 100th birthday in August!

    Reply

    19 tina September 30, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Our youngest is not vaccinated and he’s the happiest little boy ever!

    I don’t feed my kids any grains. They get pastured meats, veggies, fruits, some nuts (although they are hard for us to digest), coconut oil and cream, lots of saturated fats.

    Reply

    20 Jen@FrugalFreebiesandDeals September 30, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I am not personally that up to the research on vaccines. My girls are adopted from foster care and had the majority of all the “normal” vaccines before they even lived with us.

    I have decided to go ahead and let them have most of what is left on their schedule- but I did not get them the flu vac on the advice of my naturopath.

    On the topic of “why don’t doctors know this stuff”- I am pretty convinced that doctors only know a very tiny portion of what we believe they do. Due to personal experience and having many health issue beyond “the norm” I received many, many blank looks and the statements “nothing is wrong with you” or it is all in your head” from doctors who practice regular western medicine.

    I am sure there is a lot of money wrapped up in many of the conferences that doctors go to and that “could” have a great amount of influence to where research goes into medicines and things like vaccines.

    I was sick for over 7 years and it was not until I went to a local naturopath that I was able to find healing and answers.

    -jen

    Reply

    21 Lori September 30, 2010 at 11:20 am

    My children are all grown. I wish I had known more about the dangers of vaccines back when my kids were growing up, but I did refuse several as I didn’t think my kids needed them. My youngest is now 18 and she never had her ‘booster’ shots when she was 5 as I was becoming more concerned about vaccinations, though I still had little to go on.
    We homeschooled so the vaccination issue was a moot point most of the time. We also had a daughter who had a blood disorder (ITP, now in remission for 15 1/2 years after being prayed over and annointed with oil at church), and we never got her the rest of her shots, which were woefully behind as I never had my kids on schedule with shots.
    Even when my oldest child (now 35 1/2) was a baby I refused to get him his shots on schedule. I felt he as too young to have shots and I didn’t want to hurt him. He had them all (not as many as today) before school as I did not know about options for opting out.
    I am the mother of 8 children, 6 being born at home by choice, so I was never subjected to the pressure of having kids vaccinated at birth, though my kids have had this pressure, but have refused. We never did the ‘well baby child visits” as it seemed like such a waste of money! Why in the world would you take a perfectly healthy child to the doctor for ‘well child visits”? This is a crock that only puts money in the doctor’s pockets. It helps no one but the doctor and allows him to pressure you into things you don’t want to do. It is a waste of your money, time, and puts children at risk for ‘interventional care”, which is not good care!
    I made sure we had a regular D.O. for when one might need to see the doctor. I have kids who are grown who might have seen a doctor once or twice in their life, including the 18 year old who only seen a doctor once when she cracked her radius (arm bone) and had a hairline crack. I’d taken her to the ER as I wasn’t sure if it was broken or not. After I saw the x-ray I knew I was not ‘following up” with the orthopedist the ER doc told me to follow up with. There was no need to. She had on a ‘soft cast’ which is something that can be purchased from the store. This trip to the ER (an x-ray and less than 5 minutes with a doctor) cost us $550.00 (we have a high co-pay) and the ‘care’ was not worth that much money! RIP OFF!
    I kept her ‘soft cast” on for 7 weeks (one week more than necessary), only took it off during her bath, which I supervised and did so she would not use that hand), and sh has never had the slightest problem with it. Common sense needs to be used in these cases.
    This same daughter has never been to a regular doctor’s office, never been back to see a doctor of any kind, and is heathy as a horse. You get sick around our house you get natural and home remedies. You have to be really sick to warrant a trip to the doctor’s office. The only one who went regularly was the one with the blood disorder who is now almost 22, married, and has not been to the doctor since 1997 when he had her permanent port (for IV’s) taken out as it was no longer needed, except to have a mole removed for cosmetic reasons.
    I am not paying Ferrari payments for these doctors by taking my healthy kids when they did not need to go. Well baby child visits are a scam dreamed up by greedy doctors and pushed by gov’t agencies in order to keep tabs on parents for vaccinations, and to make people think they “need” expert care even when well. Too many people (sheeple) fell for it!
    Doctors are for the sick, not the well, and they should be reserved for when they are truly needed. They work for you, you do not work for them, so stop allowing them to bully you. If they won’t keep you as a patient, then who cares? There are many more out there~so find one who will work for and with you and not against you.

    Reply

    22 Donielle @ Naturally Knocked Up September 30, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Kelly – we do in fact have many, many doctors that are discharging patients here in the GR area for not vaccinating. I actually know many families that have personally been kicked out for exercising their right to refuse vaccinations.

    We have personally chosen not to vaccinate anymore (my daughter never had any – my son we delayed) and this may soon become my own reality as fewer and fewer doctors will allow unvaccinated children in their practice. While our doctor himself would allow us to refuse them, I’m afraid the medical ‘community’ and office he is in has in fact let it be known that all children must be vaccinated. :-(

    Reply

    23 Amanda September 30, 2010 at 11:39 am

    There immune systems ARE NOT able to handle it as they are still DEVELOPING!!! My husband has Hep C and his doctor said that his “body is not fighting it because he got it as an infant so it DEVELOPED AS PART OF HIS IMMUNE SYSTEM!”

    With my oldest we did all vaccines on schedule until 5 yrs, my middle until about 9 months. We found out that we all have a genetic autoimmune disorder when middle was about 3 months. My baby (now 5 mo) has not had ANY shots and she is by far my healthiest! I am not saying we will not get some in the future but she will not have them as an infant and especially as a newborn.

    Reply

    24 Kara September 30, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I have to respectfully disagree on the issue of well baby checks. Sure, the schedule is designed so babies and kids can get their shots. BUT, I think there is a value in having some well baby visits for building a relationship with a physician. I want them to know the baseline for my children, should they ever become ill (we go to a one-doctor practice so this is especially beneficial for us). And I want that doctor on my side should my non-mainstream positions on nutrition/vaccinations/lack of abx unless absolutely necessary/extended breastfeeding/sling wearing, ever be called into question. And as a social worker, I’ve certainly seen that happen. A lot. It’s not right, but that’s where our culture is at right now so I want as much social collateral in my corner as possible if we should ever find ourselves in that situation.

    Reply

    25 Jessie September 30, 2010 at 11:58 am

    I think this has been brought up on this blog before, but I highly recommend the book “How to Raise a Healthy Child…In Spite of Your Doctor” by Dr. Mendelsohn. He talks about how doctors are taught (in school and by the majority of their patients) that if someone comes in to their office, the doctor needs to do *something* to them, whether they’re sick or well. He suggests keeping your kids the heck away from doctors, unless they’re actually the sick. The book has some really good info and tips on how to tell if something is serious enough to take to the doctor or the hospital or (as in most cases) not.

    My 17mo daughter doesn’t have a pediatrician and has never had a doctor’s appt. My husband and I are completely comfortable with this. We’ve weighed our situation (DD is still breastfeeding and she doesn’t go to daycare) and decided to hold off on vaccines, if we do them at all. We plan to relocate within the next year, and when we do, we’ll look for a DO or a family practice doctor who is hands-off and will respect our decisions.

    Reply

    26 Julie F. September 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I feel very lucky to live in a state where ND’s are licensed physicians. Our primary care doctor for our family is an ND and it’s so nice to go see her. She never pushes any vaccines, always uses natural remedies first (but is able to prescribe antibiotics or other drugs, tests, etc. when necessary). In fact when we had our first appointment and she was going over our paperwork, her response to our homebirthed, exclusively breastfed until 7-10 months, co-sleeping, primal diet, no vax, no anitibiotics, motrin, etc. kids was “nice job!”.

    We tried to get our kids set up with an MD but couldn’t find one we could get along with (and this is a fairly crunchy area with lots of non-vaxers). There’s also a very limited number of doctors who will take unvaxed kids around here. It’s a frustrating situation. If you’re willing to just delay and are only refusing things like chicken pox, it’s a bit easier. But both of my children have serious gut issues (inherited from me at birth) and my brother is autistic so we have chosen not to vaccinate at this time and as time goes on (and we learn more), it’s less and less likely we ever will. There is literally one doctor and one nurse practitioner in this area who will agree to take them at all (or at least those are all we’ve found–some may be doing so more quietly).

    I did get our first “out of compliance” letter from our insurance company few months ago when my daughter turned a year. It seems at 12 months of age, she is behind on vaccines–26 shots behind (she’s never had any).

    I agree to be careful about signing any forms. Most of those forms basically have you admitting that you’re a “bad parent”. I hate to be paranoid but I wonder sometimes if those can’t be used against us in the future for something else.

    Love ya Kel!

    Reply

    27 Raine Saunders September 30, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Kelly – thanks for sharing this. I am not surprised at the steadfast attitude of the nurses and doctors on this subject. If they were to dissent, they would probably be at risk for losing their jobs. Still, I firmly believe it is the job of people who question the vaccines to bring these topics up, and often because the medical establishment needs to understand that not everyone is just going to go under the recommended vaccine schedule without questioning or delaying it. I am still surprised that so few people question the increasingly amount of vaccines children are required to receive every year.

    We stopped vaccinating our son when he was 2, after I started learning more about this subject. But by then, he’d already had 25 shots. That’s more than either my husband or I had by the time we were finished with all of ours and our boosters. I really believe the vaccinations have had a negative impact on our son’s health, and I’ve done my very best to make up for this by feeding him the healthiest food possible and limit the amount of toxins in our home environment. I’d love to put my son (and my husband for that matter) on the GAPS diet or at the very least, a yeast, grain, and sugar eliminated regimen. But whenever we talk about this I get a lot of opposition from both of them…so I don’t know if we’ll ever do a diet cleanse. Here is a link to the first in the series posted on my site about vaccinations:

    http://www.agriculturesociety.com/?p=5665

    I also did a companion series about conception, pregnancy, and birth and how to eat and live healthy to help avoid disorders like autism and related problems. The second in this series came out this week:

    http://www.agriculturesociety.com/?p=5803

    Reply

    28 NancyO September 30, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I’m loving all these wonderful comments…there are more of us out here than we sometimes think!

    Reply

    29 Raine Saunders September 30, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    I forgot to mention that we haven’t seen our son’s pediatrician in about 4 years. I became so disheartened with the attitudes there about health, I decided I didn’t want to take him in anymore. They have never contacted me about his lack of continuing to have more vaccines, in fact, they have never said a word. Their lack of caring at all has really showed me that my decision to stop taking him there was the right one. It would have been different if they had ever shown any type of support or respect for my decisions and beliefs, but that was never the case. None of us have been to a conventional doctor for several years now, and when we do become sick with something we either treat it at home or we see a natural practitioner of some sort.

    Reply

    30 Becky September 30, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Responding to the topic of well baby visits. We were blessed to have a family friend (and fellow believer) as our children’s family doctor for a few years. During our last visit Dr moved across country, he advised me rather than examined my kids. :) He told me that even though the well visits seem pointless (as we are not currently vaccinating) they are very very valuable. If our parenting decisions are ever legally questioned, our doctor’s records documenting our children’s health & growth can be used in our defense. He told me that we aren’t so much paying our visit co-pay to find out our kids head measurement, but to provide a safety net in case the state ever challenges our authority. We have heeded his advice, and will continue to take our kids to all well-visits until they are 5 or 6.

    Thankfully the replacement doctor has been accepting of our decision to not vaccinate. We did have to sign a waver stating we understand & accept the risks associated with not vaccinating & will not hold the dr liable if our child should contract an illness.

    Reply

    31 Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama September 30, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    First — do NOT sign those forms!! Unfortunately they can hand them over to child services and make it look like you’re medically neglecting your child because you disagree.

    Second — who put this seminar on, Paul Offit? Who infamously said children could handle up to 100,000 different disease antibodies including 10,000 at once?

    Third — why do people BELIEVE that?? Into childrens’ tiny developing brains? Not to mention that the more generations that are vaccinated, the more damage is seen. The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t know that I could even have a conversation with that woman because it’s clear she doesn’t have a working brain cell left.

    I do not believe that vaccines prevent illnesses. At all. I believe they APPEAR to. And my children haven’t and won’t receive any.

    Reply

    32 James September 26, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    You are very right on all matters, and clearly show you actually care about your kids deeply and are using tools to further your knowledge on the horrofic effects vaccines have on all infants and adults, I find it disgusting that docs actually believe that its not only healthy but protective to shoot little tiny babies full of toxic poison that has to be thrown away in special bins due to the high toxicity of the ingredients and preservatives, there is many documentaries I have watched on the subject, in one i’ve watched imdependent biologists took one popular vaccine used for mmr and dissected what was in it and the findings were shocking, they found outrageous ammounts of mercury, rotting rat brain tissue, scorpion venom, rotting human tissue from aborted fetuses, over 300,000 live cultures of different organisms and bacterias ranging from tapeworm to staphoccolous virus. The reason for vaccines is not to protect the child but to protect the healthcare industry so they have a life long customer, it is now said by independent scientists and biologists that vaccines have had a direct role in causing cancer and the reason its become an epidemic is do to the millions of foreign cultures and preseratives that are directly pumped into children in the form of vaccines and thats why now cancer rates are at an all time high and they corelate with push for vaccines, the medical field used to be a field where highly intelligent individuals with the passion to save lives went to perform and thats why soceity looked at them as characters of integrity and intelligence now it the field where the greedy and detached egotistical individuals go to take on a authoritive role and are there to prescribe as many meds as possible, before doctors used to contribute exercise and nutrition in with treatment now that the majority is so unhealthy they just prescribe meds for symptoms and never reaearch or diagnose the root cause!

    Reply

    33 Sue September 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I never heard of that pinkeye remedy. Very interesting. Actually, I wasn’t clear. Even if I had known about a home remedy, I still would have had to take him to the Dr. The high school that my son attends won’t let him go if he has pinkeye, but they also won’t excuse his absence without a doctor’s note. Too many unexcused absences means disciplinary action. The high school is a lot stricter about absences than the middle school was. Going to the Dr. is just the easiest way in this case.

    The doctor, for some reason, prescribed something really expensive and the insurance company – considering it to be a “new drug” only covered a small portion of it. I was floored at the pharmacy when they told me that my co-pay for the little bottle of drops would be $55.00! I refused. They were a little stunned. I said “the last time I bought pink-eye drops they cost about $15.00 and they worked just fine”. I was told “this is what all the doctors are prescribing now”. I thought “I just bet they are and I bet they’re getting nice incentives to do so.” I said to the pharmacist – “Pinkeye is not a new condiiton. There must be less expensive alternatives. ” She argued with me and said “this is what your doctor wants you to have”. I said “then you tell my doctor to come down here and pay the $55.00.” (as a line forms behind me at the pharmacy window). She quietly said “I’ll call the doctor’s office and ask them to prescribe you a generic alternative.” Sheesh!!! An hour later, I got my $15.00 bottle of drops and an apology from the pharmacist (which was nice).

    Don’t get me wrong. I really like our main pediatrician. He’s a nice guy. He just doesn’t read the same blogs that I do. :-) But when I come to him with something, he says “really? that’s interesting. I’ll have to research that.” But he is part of a larger practice and they are not all so open-minded.

    Reply

    34 Dr. Kami Dehler September 30, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    I am a Naturopathic Doctor and have been practicing since 1999. I have never given immunizations in my practice and did not immunize my six children. I see the other side of the story with the alarmingly increasing Autism rates and have seen miraculous cures when the metals from the vaccines are chelated out of the child. I believe in building healthy immunity and developing natural immunities to the diseases. I do use homeopathic immunizations in my practice, which do not contain the list of toxic ingredients that are in standard immunizations. I have been to a few drug dinners where the Doctor hired by the Pharmaceutical company teaches you about what is good for your patient. It is worth looking at who is sponsoring these “vaccine” conferences and who is funding these organizations involved. There is a lot of pressure on these physicans to keep with the “mainstream”. I have a book on this subject in my brain, but i’ll stop now:) -Dr. Kami

    Reply

    35 Dr. Kami Dehler September 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    p.s. In reading the above comments about pressuring the parent to cave in to the immunization by kicking them out of the practice – this is obviously backwards. The good news is….instead of feeling powerless, these parents can begin to learn more about natural and preventative medicine and ultimately make the healthiest choices. This “blackmailing” is going to have the opposite, yet positive, effect.

    Reply

    36 tina September 30, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Are there NDs in Colorado? And do insurance companies cover them?

    Reply

    37 Renel September 30, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    First off I have to say that Doctors don’t get to decide what is best for your child YOU do. Doctors like other businesses provide a SERVICE, they should always respect your decisions while giving their advice. Once again they are not the boss of you. If you don’t like your doctor….go elsewhere!

    I vaccinate on an alternative schedule. I followed Dr. Sears schedule for the most part giving only one live virus and one aluminum containing vaccine at a time. I have not yet done the flu shot, Hep A, Hep B, Chicken pox or MMR and he is 20 months old. I know the baby might not like going in ever month to get a shot but I feel better than injecting him with A BUNCH of stuff all at once.

    I too am surprised by all my friends who I say “blindly” follow the recommended vaccination schedule and wonder why their children run fevers and feel ill for up to 2 weeks after a vaccination round!
    NO THANKS!
    I believe in vaccinations. they are good I think for public health but not in massive doses!
    My doctor understands this. He does not necessarily agree but he respects my decision!

    Reply

    38 Brittany September 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Just wanted to chime in and agree with Kara and Becky on well-baby visits. We are blessed to have a ped who is very respectful of our vax choices. But we faithfully keep our well-baby appointments to continue to maintain that relationship with him and as evidence that we are taking good care of our children should that ever be called into question.

    Reply

    39 tina September 30, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Since when did well-baby visits prove that babies are well taken care of? I must be the worst mother in the world!

    Reply

    40 Becky September 30, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    You can be a great parent without well baby visits. :) But if you are ever accused falsely of doing wrong to your child, the dr’s records can be used in court to show you have faithfully pursued care for your child. It will show that your child is growing & developing in a consistent pattern. It would have more standing with the court than a character witness would. HTH!

    Reply

    41 Julie F. September 30, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    I think the problem though is that records from well baby visits only work in your favor if your doctor is at least somewhat okay with your decisions. For example, if your doctor thinks your a bad parent because you don’t vax, that’s going in your chart. If they somehow find out that you let them drink raw milk (which of course is soooo dangerous–lots and lots of sarcasm) that goes in your chart to. If anything goes “wrong” and can in any way be attributed to something like not vaccinating, drinking raw milk, etc. and the doctor has notations that they advised you xyz was dangerous–it would be more likely to work against you. So I think for most of us, who have trouble finding a doctor we can get along with, well baby visits are unlikely to be of much assistance.

    Reply

    42 Sally September 30, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Today, I took my 80 year old mom to her new doctor for a checkup and he asked her if she’d gotten her flu shot. She said no. He was pre-occupied and then brought it up later. “Have you gotten your flu shot?” She was about to tell the truth that she never gets one, but I said, “We’re all going to Walgreens later today for our shots.” That satisfied him. A lie, of course. I’m thinking he would tell her he would not be her doctor if she would not have the vaccine, and, frankly, we need him right now. But flu shots for the elderly are what the nanny state believes the MMR is for kids: absolutely necessary.

    Reply

    43 Stanley Fishman September 30, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    That is assuming the Doctor writes down favorable comments. If you do not slavishly follow the doctors orders, there could be items in the medical records that could really hurt you

    Reply

    44 Deborah October 1, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Thanks for sharing this post. I feel like this whole talk-to-the-doctor-about-vaccines thing is even scarier for people like me who are still so “on the fence” about the whole thing. I feel like you have to really know what you are talking about to even try! Thankfully we do have a doctor who is really into letting the parents be the parents. I am pretty timid and just mention we are still researching vaccines. He tells me why he thinks I should get them but makes a point to say “I am not a vaccine salesman; parents know best.” I travel over a half hour to bring my kids to this guy, even though we live in a big city and on my way there drive past a few dozen doctors our insurance would cover :)

    @Sue – I don’t know how healthy it is, but the contact cleaning solution that has boric acid in the ingredient list has been a family favorite for pinkeye when the kids were little. It’s about $3 for a bottle that will last a few years! Maybe next time you could get a note from the Dr. and then never show up at the pharmacy??

    Reply

    45 Peggy October 1, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Okay, I do NOT want to come off like a paranoid weirdo here. But, you know in the Miranda rights statement where they say, “Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law”? Your statements will not be used in your own defense, especially if they are crafted by someone else (the doctor, nurse, etc.) Please be careful of what you say when speaking to those in the medical profession, they are *required* to report if they even suspect something is amiss. Don’t count on their good records being used on your behalf.

    Reply

    46 Sally October 1, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    This is why I lied to my mom’s doctor: I don’t want to get into it. He is a vaccine guy and I will be suspect, as will my mom.

    It seems to me, if you’re not at least a little bit of a paranoid wacko these days, you might not be paying attention, lol!

    Reply

    47 Penny October 1, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I’ve had a little over 19 years of personally fighting the medical system when it comes to vaccines. It most likely is a waste of time/effort to even bother going there with the nurse/doctor. Your nurse is sadly like most of the other nurses I know (and I say that because I’ve been a nurse for 18 years). She has no idea that these seminars are put on by the companies that make the drugs or are the pharmacy’s that sell them. The seminar may have also been one put together by a private company that charges people to attend so they can get continuing education credits for their license. These companies get their information from the drug manufacturing companies. It’s a big circle.

    Some of my background vaccine info. My oldest daughter, Ashley, received her first series of shots and within 24 hours became a lifeless rag doll. The doctor was called and his staff told me that I was just a young over reacting mother. After all I had been told that my child could become lethargic. Just give her some Tylenol and things will be fine. Day 2 and she still did nothing but sleep and drink. Same with day 3. By day 4 I called the doctor back to report no improvement. Fine….bring her in. Doctor claimed she had an ear infection (she had no temp and no other symptoms) and prescribed an antibiotic). By the end of the week (7 days) she started moving more so it was assumed the antibiotic was working.

    Repeat the process with the second series of vaccines. At the time I think it was MMR/DPT. They didn’t do HepB or any others in those days. I’m still the over reacting nut though even though she has just laid on the couch barely moving for days.

    By the third serious of shots she was old enough to be sitting up, creeping on the floor, holding her bottle (I didn’t breast feed at the time), etc. She was more active so this time her being a lifeless blob was really shocking. Now everyone knew something was wrong. Back to the doctor who told me I was nuts. It was just yet another ear infection. More antibiotics. Days later, when she began to move again, she could no longer sit up, she could no longer hold her bottle, she didn’t creep on the floor. I didn’t have a 9-10 month old. I now had a child that acted like a 3 month old.

    Back to the doctor we went only to be told things were fine. I knew then that something was wrong and began researching vaccines. The more I read the more I realized she had a reaction and it was totally ignored. At this time my mother had a friend that went to a ND. This person recommended a few doctors who were OK with no vaccinating. I learned a few tricks from them about how to deal with the vaccination issues. In all states, with a doctors note, you can avoid vaccinations for medical reasons. In all states you can avoid vaccinations for religious reasons. In just a few states you can use personal reasons to avoid vaccinations. This is important to remember.

    My first war with people on vaccines came when I told my daughters MD that we were leaving because she had a reaction that affected her development and he refused to acknowledge it. At that visit he had even wanted to vaccinated her again before we left and I said no. They told me they were reporting me to the state for abuse. I told them very nicely that it had been my husbands choice to vaccinate by now we were following my religion and we don’t vaccinate in my religion. If he pushed the issue I would sue them all for discrimination. That stopped it all right there.

    As for my daughter she is now 19. She has had issues with memory processing as well as coordination all her life. At first I tried to home school her when she was younger to avoid the vaccination issues but realized that something was wrong. She entered public school in second grade and it took them almost a year to figure out the types of processing problems she has. She graduated last year and has returned this year for an extended 4 year program in the special ed department. The school did not think she would ever learn to read on grade level but in the 6 th grade she feel in love with Pokemon and taught herself how to read over one summer. She has read all the Twilight books in several days of getting each book so I guess they were wrong. She needs a calculator to do simple math, can not make change and has difficulty telling time. There are many other little things that will affect parts of her life every day. All of this because the doctors are too afraid to see the side effects when the happen or they don’t care because rocking the boat will affect their paycheck.

    Deciding not the vaccinate is a personal issue and one not to be taken lightly. As I have told my doctor many times. If my children catch a disease and die (or have some terrible side effect) and it could have be prevented from the vaccine then I will feel terrible. If I vaccinate my other children and watch them go through what my first daughter did then I will feel terrible. Either way, quite frankly, I’m screwed. So I’m going to go with the lesser of the evils for now.

    As for handling the schools, doctors, other people, etc. While I’d like to be out there spreading the word I find that most people are, quite sadly, mindless sheep. The easiest way to deal with them without bringing a world of hassle down on you is to go the religious route. I’d love to say I personally chose to not fill my children’s tiny bodies with this crap but we all know the fight that goes with it. Some people are up to it. I’m not.

    Since I know my doctor is OK with my choice he knows the real reason. Plus I think it’s important that he knows my daughter past medical issues. If I have contact with any other doctor I simply say I’m sorry we don’t vaccine due to religious reasons and leave it at that. No other explanation offered. I don’t even say what religion. Occasionally someone does ask. I say Christian. Really they just are curious and want to know if you are waiting for the arrival of some kind of comet or space aliens or that sort of thing. Once they feel you are normal then they are fine. If you get someone who is pushy and keeps bugging for more info I usually just say….you know you can’t ask that sort of thing because it’s considered harassment these days. Then smile. That usually does it.

    Schools are pretty much the same. We are the only nutball family in town that does not vaccinate. When we signed up they didn’t know what to do when the doctors paperwork showed no vaccines. They nearly had a stroke. I told them that I would write a letter saying we didn’t vaccinate for religious reasons and have it notarized for their files. In some cities/towns they want you pastor/head of religion to write the letter on their stationary. I lucked out. If this was the case I was more then prepared to become a member at one of several churches where immunizations were not allowed. Drastic? Perhaps but I think being forced to get them would have been worse. We know have three children in public schools ages 9, 12 and 19. This notarized letter thing has worked fine the whole time.

    Occasionally there is a glitch in the system. We thought one daughter had chicken pox which would mean quarantining all 3 kids for a month as well as notifying the health department since our kids are not vaccinated (gasp!). Thankfully it turned out to be viral. Another freaky time was when a vaccinated child came down with one of the illnesses they vaccinated for (I forget which one) and the school nurse nearly had a heart attack because the kid was on my daughters bus. My daughter never got whatever it was.

    Or there was the time a mother found out my kids were not vaccinated and had a fit about how they were going to contaminate her child. Lets see – you vaccinate your child so they are PROTECTED right? So what exactly is my child going to give your child if they are protected? When you can answer that question please continue your crazy rant. That mother didn’t have much to say after that. Sigh.

    You know what the totally crazy thing about all this immunization stuff is? They only go psycho like this until your 18. After that they could care less and can’t force you to do a thing. As an adult you can do whatever you want. If your current doctor is driving you nuts about not being vaccinated you could also change doctors, tell your new doctor you lost you old files (or whatever) and that your up to date on shots and your doctor DOESN”T CARE! Ask any doctor why they push like crazy to give vaccines to kids. It’s because they know that moms worry and because kids are more likely to be at the doctors frequently. It’s the best time to get it in them.

    The only vaccines my other two kids have is the tetanus shot. The reason for this is we live in a very old house in a town whose main industry was making shoes. People use to take work home to do at night to earn extra money. When we dig in the yard we often come across old shoe tacks, nails, etc. Tetanus is a spore found in the ground that gets in to wounds through deep punctures. The kind of deep punctures you get from old shoe tacks and nails. We figured that tetanus was nasty enough and the chances of one of us, including us adults, getting it was much higher then if we were living in a different area that it was a vaccine worth taking.

    So that’s my vaccine story. Sorry it’s so long. Hopefullly it helps someone out there.

    Reply

    48 Sally October 1, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Thanks, Penny. I want to add a blog post I did awhile back with lots of links, info, videos, etc.: http://www.tinyurl.com/vacscreed. I got started down the healthy eating path after stumbling on a video about Max, Stan Kurtz’ son, then a few Jenny McCarthy videos. There’s a rabbit hole! We cured our son of asthma, just has a touch of it now, with change of diet and exercise.

    Reply

    49 Leah October 1, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Our 3 littles are just now getting over pertussis (aka whooping cough), as we have chosen not to vaccinate, and live in Amish/ Mennonite country, PA where this is not an uncommon disease. Here is a post about how we treated it naturally that may come in handy to some of you other non-vaccinating moms out there, though I pray that it would NEVER happen to any of your precious babes! http://bit.ly/cobaF3

    We have just one major pediatricians office (with 5 doctors) serving over a 30 mile radius, with each dr. viewing parents rights differently. Several of them will not mention our decision not to vaccinate, while the head doc will chew our ear off a bit each time we see him. He comes from a mennonite background and has seen babies die of whooping cough related infections, which he believes could be prevented from proper vaccination. I mean no disrespect, but I think that unfortunately there is often a lot of incest within the “plain people” community and this compromises their immunity.

    Apparently, though we do our best to follow nourishing traditions principles, these alone were not enough to save us from the grasp of this wretched illness, either. It has been terrible, and in the worst parts I have thought to myself that perhaps a few shots would have been worth the risk to prevent such suffering, but I know that God has carried them through these past few weeks and given us knowledge and wisdom to care for them while they heal.

    Even still, I cringe at the mere sight of that needle and vaccine jar. I know a mennonite family who vaccinated their first 7 children and not their last 3. The youngest 3 all contracted whooping cough while the older, vaccinated ones did not. I know this is not always the case with vaccine effectiveness, but it really does make you stop to think when it hits so close to home like it has for us.

    Reply

    50 KitchenKop October 1, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Leah, thanks for sharing that, because I think it’s always good to hear a little from both “sides”.

    I appreciate all these awesome comments, guys! And now you’ve got me all freaked out about signing that form! (And prob won’t now and will just try to hold them off…)

    One thing I want to say, though, is that while I agree with most everything you all shared, I don’t agree that ALL docs are in it only for the money. Just as in any profession, there are good and bad. Our family doc has always been very approachable when we discuss this stuff, but also made it clear he disagreed with me. I do believe he totally has our best interests at heart, I just think he doesn’t always know the whole big picture… (Not saying I do either by any stretch, but there are definitely things he’s missing.)

    Have a great weekend Reader Friends! :)
    Kel

    Reply

    51 shelley October 4, 2010 at 6:50 am

    Hi Donielle,

    I’m from the GR area too.. have been looking and many offices will give us the boot if we don’t vacinate. What is your delayed schedule? Any info on docs would be helpful too.. Thanks for your help!

    Thanks,
    Shelley

    You can email me off line at: shell060305@yahoo.com

    Reply

    52 KitchenKop October 4, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Shelley, sorry but I have no good info on docs in the area. Let me know if you hear anything.

    For the schedule we used and all the vaccine info I’ve posted, you can find all that here: http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2009/08/vaccine-decisions.html

    Kelly

    Reply

    53 christine October 4, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Our 5 are unvaccinated for a host of reasons. In 20 years, we have only ‘needed’ to go to a doctor with our children a few times – mostly to confirm that a throat or ear issue was indeed an infection, and nothing more serious, (or to rule out some other issue we had a concern about) which we treated at home naturally.

    The interesting thing is that children do not require doctor visits, in general, if they are of normal health, receiving normal, healthy foods. The entire ‘pediatric’ industry is based on selling vaccinations.

    We highly recommend Dr. Mendehlson’s books.

    Reply

    54 Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE October 4, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    I decided that until I determine that vaccines have more benefits than risks, we are doing zero vaccinations.

    When our pediatrician couldn’t get on board with that, I fired him.

    Remember, they work for us, not the other way around.

    I found a new pediatrician who is totally fine with doing the full vaccinations, partial vaxing or not vaxing at all. She is also a homeopath and she’s a recent WAPF convert. She recently organized an event to teach her patients about raw milk and had Mark McAfee come down and speak.

    As far as whether or not to “go there” with doctors and nurses who are pro-vaccine, I’ll quote George Bernard Shaw:

    “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”

    Reply

    55 D. October 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    I’m an infant day care provider. WIthin the past few years I’ve noticed that when infants are taken to the doctor for a “well baby” check (is there something out there which makes LESS sense?) they are normally vaccinated. When they return to day care the following day, I become ill. I have to now insist that my clients take their infants to the doctor for shots on Friday. That way I have the whole weekend of NOT being exposed. It seems to be working. No matter how I try to talk to parents about not vaccinating, they just don’t get it. I’ve also tried talking to them about not feeding formula, not feeding rice cereal, but they don’t get THAT either. When I tell my clients that my three children were raised on breastmilk, and their first foods were egg yolk and pureed meats, they look at me as though I have one big eye in the middle of my forehead or something. I am CONSTANTLY running off copies of the WAPF information on Nourishing a Growing Baby and handing it out. No one reads it. It’s so frustrating.

    People need to wise up, but how do we get their attention? I’ve done, as one poster here recommended, and try to just plant the seed rather than change minds, but today’s parenting generation is just too busy to actually pay attention, much less take time to prepare real, organic baby food at home, even if they know they can freeze it or whatever.

    Any suggestions on how I could approach these people?

    Reply

    56 Sally October 8, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Wish I knew!!! Over the years, I’ve ranted, cried, whined, pleaded, and manipulated (so I thought) and nada. Now I just give the facts as dispassionately as possible. And I talk until they start to flinch (meaning they’ve had enough) or their eyes glaze over. This way we stay friends and maybe something got through.

    I think we plant a seed. It’s up to the person to see if it grows.

    I have gotten two people who were already on the fence to decide not to vaccinate. They went through hell and suffered terrible guilt but stuck with it. It’s so hard for a new mother to make that choice because everyone else is applying tons of pressure to follow the status quo. Very sad!!!

    Reply

    57 Therese October 8, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Food is almost like religion……………..very hard to get someone to consider changing their way of life, convenience, hectic schedule, etc. I day cared a little boy whose mom only breast fed and used a pump privately at work on lunch and regular breaks. That boy was fat and healthy and happy:-) On the other hand, the bottle fed babies are still in the same mode of eating and living, and health issues are increasing……food has so much to do with our health, even serious health issues. Eating whole foods and the fats we need can be done in any schedule under any situation, but again, food is like religion or politics…..it’s very tough to change a persons point of view, especially when they see any work involved. We follow the enhanced SCD. We started because of serious health reasons and will continue because of the benefits we are now enjoying. We have never vaccinated our five children and have even had them travel over seas. We stopped well baby visits since we just did the regular health check for scouting, etc. All the well baby checks didn’t help our son who has been sick only mildly very few times. But, they missed his developmental health issues and we are now needing to have specialists diagnose him. In the mean time, our way of life/eating and God’s grace are doing what he needs most:-)
    That nurse either didn’t know what she was saying or did, which is worse?;-)

    Reply

    58 Elon Bartlett, D.C. October 13, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Really great points about paradigms and being a “client” with a choice. Western medicine has incredible diagnostic tools, but many of their treatment options are like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.

    Reply

    59 Lauren October 13, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    The ignorance and lack of perspective is scary. It worries me when I eventually want to have a child. How will I protect it’s little perfect body when the whole system makes you out to be the crazy one? Why is injecting poisons the right thing to do? Me and my family fortunately educated ourselves, but unfortunately not soon enough. Even before being admitted into college I had to get more shots. Now we are steering clear from medication and no longer go to doctors offices.

    Reply

    60 NancyO October 13, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Lauren, we all continue to seek wisdom in this area. Good for you to start educating yourself before your children come along!! Keep that education going and you’ll know just what your “perfect little body” (I love that!) needs when the time comes. Better than that, you’ll be able to articulate it to anyone who needs to know your choices. The thing NOT to do is to refuse to have children because of a messed up system. There are lots of people raising healthy children in spite of that system. I love knowing that there are so many your age who are already way ahead of the game! Bless you!!

    Reply

    61 Nick Haas December 6, 2010 at 3:29 am

    For you don’t vaccinate and want providers, there is a list at http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/providers.pdf. As fyi, we also don’t bring our child to a pediatrician. We certainly don’t do well baby visits. I’m confident those who bring their kids in to have a record are likely having a record created against them.

    Reply

    62 D. December 6, 2010 at 9:18 am

    That’s a very good point, Nick. I feel the same about having a record created against us. I don’t know if it’s that so much, but they are tracking us, that’s for sure. Someone at a higher level wants to know which of us are smart enough to go against the guv’ment grain! I sure hope more people wise up about useless, expensive doctor visits and vaccinations and the like, but I don’t look for it to happen in my lifetime. People are sheeple. They believe everything they hear on TV and they certainly believe everything a person in a lab coat tells them, regardless of its merit. No one bothers to second guess anyone in authority. I guess I grew up differently because I was taught to “question authority” — always and especially authority. And I always have. Thanks for sharing the link, too, Nick.

    Reply

    63 Rod July 14, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Doctors today have become even more about control and profits and the arrogance of many is sickening. The problem with people is they are brainwashed from the time they are kids to believe you have to go to the doctor and often. Women are brain washed to believe they have to have pap smears yearly and most men think they have to have prostrate screening . Until more people WAKE UP and realize doctors are control freaks and do not care about you and its all about control and money, things will not get any better. I am surprised doctors do not call the police and force parents to get the vacinations for their kids. Its probably yet to come. There are some doctors trying to get congress to let them take kids away from parents if they are obese. The AMA gets anything it wants from the feds because of massive campaign contributions. Keep on refusing to vacinate you kids while you can. Those drugs are poison.

    Reply

    64 Rod July 14, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Keep in mind people that electronic medical records are now mandatory and the records are to be handed over to the feds. You need to ask yourselves WHY the federal government needs your records? The AMA pushed congress for this.
    The 2009 stimulous bill gave BILLIONS to teaching hospitals, doctors, dentists, and others to make your records electronic and hand it over to the government. Ask your doctor if he/she took the money. One admitted it to me. People will be horrified when they see what is hidden in the health care bill after it all takes affect. Many states have already passed electronic medical record bills. Mine passed it in total secret and it goes into affect jan 1 2012. The state senator who wrote and sponsored the bill is refusing to discuss it with me. My congressional rep would only talk about it a little and really told me nothing worth hearing.
    If you think electronic medical records are a good thing your in for a bad surprise later.

    Reply

    65 Sue July 15, 2011 at 9:50 am

    I took my 14-year-old son in for his checkup this week and was given a letter strongly recommending the Gardasil vaccine. I didn’t know they were recommending it for boys! I declined and the doctor didn’t push at all or ask me to sign anything. I was all tensed up for an argument. Thankfully it didn’t happen. Unlike my GYN checkup the previous week in which the CNM gave me a really hard time about getting a mammogram.

    CNM is a Certified Nurse Midwife – supposedly all about natural healthcare. Not so much! She asked me when my last mammogram was, I told her I had a baseline when I was 40, but I would not be getting another one because I was uncomfortable with the concentrated levels of radiation involved. She got all snarky and said “even though they save lives!?”. A thousand come-backs ran through my head, but realized that it was pointless to get into an argument with someone who didn’t believe that I could have an educated opinion in the first place. So I simply said “this is my choice and I’m not going to discuss it any further. You can do a thorough manual exam and that will have to be sufficient.” Sadly, I think I’m going to have to find a new GYN provider now.

    Reply

    66 D. July 15, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Sue, if you have not already done so, you might want to pick up the book “Mal[e] Practice by Dr. Robert S. Mendelsohn. The copyright is from 1981 but it matters not — his information is still sound as a dollar, even today. He has two other very good books (I’ve read all of his stuff over and over because he’s just so sensible and he’s one of them!). Well, he WAS one of them. . . His books are available at amazon and other bookstores.

    The book I mentioned talks about how women (in particular) are in awe of doctors like OB/GYN’s and pediatricians. Well, any SPECIALTY doctor for that matter. We shouldn’t be. To put it in terms even a doctor can understand, and excuse the graphics, they wipe their butts just like you and me. They have NO right to make you feel like a second class citizen, and you DO, at least for now, have a right to your own opinion and choices. I used to work for doctors and I know how to handle these doods! If they think you know anything about your body and you let them know it in no uncertain terms, they will back off.

    Putting a doctor in charge of your family’s health is like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank.

    Reply

    67 D. July 15, 2011 at 11:17 am

    P.S. I’m not sure why I used the phrase sound as a dollar – our dollar is a lot of things but sound isn’t one of them! Anyhow, his books are well worth reading and you won’t consider it a waste of time, believe me. I belong to a literary guild and I challenged the “mostly allopathic” crowd of ladies there with this: I told them to take all three of his books, pick any six pages and read them top to bottom – and then tell me they could resist picking them up again and starting at the beginning. ALL of them have read his books and are recommending them to everyone. It’s amazing how word catches on about the value of his words, even now.

    Reply

    68 Sue July 15, 2011 at 11:38 am

    To be fair, you said “sound as A dollar”. I’m sure that there is a dollar somewhere in the world that is sound. ;-) But I take your point. Once or twice, I have heard the argument that something was better because it was newer – e.g., a doctor prescribed my teenage son the latest and greatest pinkeye medicine, but the insurance covered it only at the brand name price ($55). I told the pharmacy that whatever we used when he was a toddler worked just fine and I wanted that. I was told “but this is the new medicine that all the doctors are prescribing”. I said “are they going to pay for it? No? Then call my doc and tell him I want the old stuff ($10).” They did.

    My point is that I actually have more faith in some of the older literature. It seems there was less corporate meddling in the research then. I will pick up those books – thanks for the advice.

    Overall, I have been pretty lucky in that I have had doctors who explain all the options and then let me choose – rather than try to boss me around. I was very impressed with a Jewish family practitioner that we had a long time ago who told me that it was not medically necessary to have my son circumcised and didn’t push for us to have it done (this was back when circ was generally recommended).

    A new practice just opened up near me. The doctor calls it a Family Practice specializing in Integrative Medicine. I’ve already had my daughter in there and he told me that while he has nothing against vaccines in general, he thinks that traditional pediatricians give far too many these days. He also offers digital imaging instead of mammography. I’m going to start seeing him myself.

    Reply

    69 D. July 15, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    You were lucky to have access to an integrated physician. In my neck of the woods, all of the hospitals, doctors, clinics, labs, etc., all seem to be owned by one large conglomerate corporation (Sanford) and so they are all the same cookie-cutter “advice givers”. They don’t have answers, they use far too many “tests” and too much machinery because they have no common sense about diagnosing (and aren’t allowed to use it if they do actually possess any), they use too many drugs, they don’t understand nutrition AT ALL, and they get royally peeved if you even try to think for yourself and question their judgement. It’s appalling. They make their money off the drugs and the referrals to the “specialists”. I agree with you that we need to start looking backwards and do what people USED to do to stay well, and not rely on doctors for every little hangnail. ;->

    Reply

    70 Sally July 16, 2011 at 11:26 am

    I love “putting a doctor in charge of your family’s health is like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank.” Gave us a good chuckle!

    Mike Adams had an interesting article about how 90% of doctor’s are just flat wrong: http://naturalhealthnews.blogspot.com/2011/01/90-flawed-doctors-rely-on-bad-data.html

    Western medicine has saved my life twice and that’s what I will continue to use it for: heroic medicine. Otherwise, I’m taking colloidal silver, GSE, vitamins, eating the WAPF way, drinking raw milk, kombucha (we are addicts), fermented foods, eating eggs from our backyard city chickens and SLEEPING. I would not go to a doctor who did not feel as I did. I will forgo Western medicine, checkups, etc.

    Thanks, Kelly, for this great “forum” — it’s always so good to hang around with folks who believe the wacky stuff I do, lol!

    Reply

    Please note this paid endorsement disclosure (the FTC is making me put this here): Is everything always breaking around your house, too? Well the same thing happens on a website. A lot. Sooooo... "In order to support my blogging activities, I may receive monetary compensation or other types of renumeration for my endorsement, recommendation, testimonial and/or link to any products or services from this blog or social media posts." This includes Amazon affiliate links either here or on social media. It doesn't earn much, but it's better than nothing, and cost is the exact same for you either way. Thanks for your support!

    Also a disclaimer: The statements made here have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. These statements are not intended to diagnose, treat or cure or prevent any disease. This notice is required by the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. Click here to read more of this exciting information: Icky Small Print Stuff: privacy policy, copyright, disclaimers, terms and conditions.



    Leave a Comment

    Previous post:

    Next post:

    Protect your files with Carbonite Online Backup Thesis Theme for WordPress:  Options Galore and a Helpful Support Community