The comments went crazy at last week’s post on vaccinations and the chat I had with the nurse at our doctor’s office. Thanks to all of you and your wise advice in the comments we probably won’t sign those documents now. I haven’t even had time to read them over well yet or talk it over with Kent, but when I do, I’m just not sure yet what we’ll decide. To think that these documents could be used against us as parents is unbelievable, but unfortunately not inconceivable. It’s just sick that “they” make it so difficult for parents who actually DO their research and don’t blindly follow the typical vaccination schedule.
But here’s where I need your advice again:
One reason I’d be afraid not to sign, is because I wonder what will happen when they realize this. If they give us the boot, a very real possibility, I just don’t know if there are any other “regular” docs in town who would take our family under their care, and certainly not any that I’ve already built a relationship with. (Although the relationships were more when I was there all the time when we were having babies or having miscarriages, and I rarely even see any of them anymore, which is obviously a good thing.)
Why does it matter if they boot us out you wonder?
Because my mind is full of the ‘what-ifs’. There are times in life, and especially with four kids, where we will likely need a family doc, and I’d hate to burn bridges here. While we rarely need antibiotics, it still could happen. And who knows what illness could be around the corner? Even though we try to eat healthier and hopefully have less a chance of this, we still aren’t perfect by any stretch and you just never know.
By the way…
Since I put up that post last week I got the latest notice from their office, sent certified mail, so I had to go pick it up and show my ID. Big bold red letters stamped on the top: “3rd notice!” It said that our 11 year old is due for his well-child check and his flu shot! Yeah right!
Update: Since I finished this post I looked over the papers and had to tell you some of what was written there…
It had all the stuff you would expect, how safe vaccines are, how much research goes into them, how mercury doesn't cause Autism, how you're putting your child and others at risk if you don't vaccinate, etc. Here are a couple Q & A's:
“Isn't it overwhelming to a child's immune system to give so many shots in one visit?”
Answer: “The amount of antigens that children fight every day just by playing, eating and breathing (2,000-6,000) is much more than the antigens in any combination of vaccines on the current schedule (150 for the whole schedule). So, children's immune systems are not overwhelmed by vaccines.”
They're equating what children come across in their natural environment to a powerful disease concoction developed in a chemical factory, seriously?!
Another Q&A was in regards to Dr. Sears' suggested vaccine schedule where they are more spread out.
Answer: “There is no scientific basis for such a schedule. No one knows how well it would work to protect your child from diseases. And if many parents in any community decided to follow such a schedule, diseases would be able to spread much more quickly. Also, people who are too sick or too young to receive vaccines are placed at risk when they are around unvaccinated children.”
“No scientific basis for such a schedule.” But there's no scientific basis for giving vaccines either – just having the vaccine doesn't guarantee protection from disease at all!
There are also many suggested websites on this sheet, including the CDC and AAP sites. (No thanks.)
The form specific to our doctor's office said this:
“Some families are adamant about NOT giving their children vaccinations based on unreliable data, unrealistic fears, and anecdotal events. We as a physician group do not agree with this point of view, and we rely on years of scientific evidence, which forms the recommendations from the CDC, AAP, and the AAFP. Immunizations need to be given to all children to protect them from preventable and serious and potentially life threatening diseases. Other very young children, and immunocompromised patients, in the same community and medical facility also benefit if there isn't a group of unimmunized children who could potentially infect them. for some offices this is a bigger issue than others.”
A 10-step procedure is then listed out for handling these wicked families who have the GALL to do their research and try to make the best choices for their kids…
So, my wise reader friends, what do you think? And thank you for your help!
One more follow up post to this one.
Kristie says
Hi Kelly, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences regarding vaccines. I am thinking about a lot right now, and learning so much from you. I have four children: a 12 year old, 9 year old, and twin 16 month olds. I had my first two sons fully vaccinated according to schedule. When my second son was around 4 years old, he was diagnosed with Tourettes Syndrome, a neurological disease that is hereditary. However, neither his father nor I have any history of Tourettes in our family. This got me to doing lots of research, and since then, I have changed my views on vaccines.
I have not vaccinated my twins yet, and am not sure if I will at all. It is a tough decision, and I am so afraid of making the wrong choice, afraid of people coming after me for my views (ahem, CPS!), and just a bit overwhelmed about it all right now. Reading through your articles has been very informative and comforting though. Thanks!
By the way, your link above, “just having the vaccine doesn’t guarantee protection from disease at all!” is not working. https://drtenpenny.com/vac_failures.aspx
KitchenKop says
Hi Kristie,
First of all, thanks for letting me know that link wasn’t working, I tried to find the updated page url but can’t find it, I’m sorry!
Regarding the vaccines, I know, it’s such a huge decision!!! I’ll pray you are led the way that you should go. Good luck with your research and let me know if you need anything, such as a specific question answered. If I don’t know, I can put it on my Facebook page to see if others know.
Kel
AbbyWarm says
Hi Kelly!
I realize this post is super old and you’ve likely resolved this issue, but I thought I’d throw my 2 cents out there, too. I take my kids to the Advantage Health office on the Beltline {I believe you’re in the GR area, right?}. They see Dr. S {I can give you his name in a separate message if you’d like}. I was “transferred” to him when our other doc left the practice {good riddance, too!} and wasn’t exactly sure how I felt about him at first. He’s a little quirky. But, when it came time to let us know what shots were needed, I told him I do a revised schedule. He told me that it was his duty to inform me of the importance, but that he wasn’t a “shot Nazi” {his term :-)} and the decision was mine. That was several years ago and still he does a good job respecting my choice. He checks it off his list that he’s told me, but figures that I’ll refuse most of what he recommends 🙂
KitchenKop says
Interesting! That’s where our doc is too (not that office, though), and he still doesn’t give us a hard time about it (we’re hardly ever in there, though, only for checkups which I don’t do on schedule either, every 2-3 years, just enough so we can still call him our doc in case we need anything!), but I do wonder if he takes any crap about it from the higher ups.
Having a doctor who really “got it” would be much better, but I’m very thankful for these two gems who actually still believe parents have the right to refuse what they don’t believe is best for their family.
Thanks for jumping into the conversation, even if it is from a while back. 🙂
Kelly
Ann says
PS. If I were having a baby today and knowing what I know with the hundreds of hours of research on this topic, I would not give any of my children a single vaccine ever !!!
By the way, our nation needs to brace itself for a major infertle generation after the N1H1 vacs. The one ingredient (M12?) that was is that vaccine was outlawed after serious complications with our military in the 90s. Infertility and miscarrage were results. Why do you think that pregnant women and young children were tageted and the elderly were not. The elderly would have been the most supceptible but they can not populate anymore so there was no need. Also the incerts did not recomend this vac for pregnant women or for children under the age of 2, yet they were targeted anyway along with the older children and teens. Why?
They built up the fear with false data about 50% of people who get the N1H1 flu died the first time around in the 1930-40 era. Yet what they failed to acknowledge was that ONLY 50% of the people that were seriously sick enough to need hospitation died. What about for the millions of people that weren’t sick enough to need hospital treatment ? Why weren’t they factored in to the results ? And if this is such a fatal and serious flu, why didn’t they offer it this flu season?
Ok, I’m off my ban wagon now.
Ann says
Ok, I’m sorry but I can’t resist this.
Stop making excuses for staying with this practice !! They may be acting professional toward you but they are clearing trying to munipulate you. It is obvious that they have an agenda and because you don’t want to be part of it, they want to bully you into going against your beliefs by undermining your research. Those documents are very clear. I have seen this done and I know of families that were not welcome back to the practice. They called around and eventually found an office who was willing to respect their parental rights.
First, unvaccinated people are putting others at risk such as “people that are too sick to vaccinate” ? these “people would have already been vaccinated years ago. “children that are too young ? ” They vaccinate at 24 hours old, 2m, 6m. 12m. 18m. who are they referring to as too young?
How are unvac kids putting anyone including med professionals at risk. If the vaccines work like they say they do, then unvaccinated kids can’t be putting anyone at risk other then another unvaccinated person and only if they are infected.
All of their reserach is biased because it is based 100% off of the pharmicudical companies own research which is then twisted and munipulated to get the results they desire.
DTaP. Diptheria in the USA? Tetnis ? Disinfecting wounds thoughly can prevent this, we live in a much more sterile environment than ever, Pertosis is a cough.
Bob Huttinga says
Hi, I am Bob Huttinga. I am a Physician Assistant in lakeview Michigan. I personally am not in favor of the heavy immunization scheduled suggested by the CDC and AMA. Here is the advice I give my patients who ask:
1. No infant should be immunized for Hepatitis B at birth. Hep B is spread by sexual contact and dirty drug needles. If you are pregnant and an IV Drug user with multiple sexual partners then your baby needs a Hep B Vaccine, otherwise not. It is not good to introduce a totally innocent immune system to a virus like Hep B on day one.
2. There are very cases of tetanus in the US every year. This is not because of immunizations, it is because of the nature of that infection. Tetanus lives in the soil, in the dirt. It must be introduced into the body by a deep penetrating wound from an object that has been in the soil, in the earth. So stepping on a nail that has been in the dirt is a high risk wound. Stepping on a nail that has been up in the air is not a risk for tetanus. Even a scatch by a garden tool is not high risk.
3. Pertussis(whooping cough) is rare and treatable with antibiotics and homeopathics. I have treated a lot of Amish patients with whooping cough using homeopathic Drosera very successfully.
4. Diptheria again treatable by antibiotics.
5. Polio. This is a virus that is really nasty. Life threatening and deforming and still present. No good traditional or alternative treatments exist that I know of. I usually recommend that children get this immunization. IPV by itself at spaced intervals. It is interesting to note that the US immunization program is credited for stamping out polio in this country, but all over the world, even in countries where no immunizations were given, there has been a dramatic decrease in polio.
6. Chickpox. Yes a few children have died from chickpox (varicella encephalitis), but it is very rare. Today there has been a ten fold increase in shingles in adults and children because children are getting immunized against chickenpox so the adults are not getting exposed to that virus and they are losing their natural immunity against the chickenpox/shingles virus (varicella/zoster). There are homeopathics that will shorten chickpox and shingles.
7. HPV Human Papilloma Virus increases the risk of cervical and penile cancer. The virus is usually self-limiting. The Problem is the vaccine Gardisel only protects against 4 or the 200 strains and appears to have a fairly high serious reaction rate. I do not recommend this to my teenage female patients.
8. The reason health care providers are so freaked out about this is their medical liability. Every year the AMA publishes “The Standards of Care”. This document is the treatment Bible for traditional medicine. If a doctor does not follow that he or she can be sued for malpractice. If you do not immunize your child and he or she dies from chickpox encephalitis. You could sue the provider. You would not win if he documented that it was your choice not to immunize, but your lawyer could argue that he should have insisted and that you were not fully informed. Their careers and livelihoods are on the line. Most just simply do not want to deal with that risk if you do not co-operate. I have patients sign a waiver and hold me harmless if their alternative medical program fails. Most of the providers of health care have never even considered that the immunization program is flawed. So you are asking them to disregard their basic training. Like asking you to believe again that Santa Clause is real.
Every therapy has risks and benefits. You must do your own research and then chose for your self. And then find a health care provider who will be your coach and support you with good information. But you cannot expect them to put their career at risk for your idea unless they also happen to believe as you do.
I believe it is not nice to fool with mother nature and we should put our health in our own hands.
Nourishing Nancy says
Hi Kelly,
I just wrote a post today about my experience with my physician’s assistant who was very upset with my very slowed vaccination schedule, ie, Dr. Sears suggestions.
Not only was she condescending, but asked my five year old son a host of questions, like, do you wear your helmet on your bike? do you put a seat belt on in the car? do you brush you teeth, etc. It was more like she was questioning my parenting skills because I had made a decision to question their schedule and only give those required by the school.
I felt attacked and had visions of Big Brother listening in from another room. Making the decision to vaccinate or not kept me up for endless nights, and it was a bit disheartening to be condemned by so many today after posting my article. It seemed no one thought that the doctor’s questions were out of line, only that I was for vaccinating at all.
I wish you strength and clear thinking in whatever decision you make. You sound like a wonderful mother to me.
Bob Huttinga says
Hi,I stumbled onto your site while looking at vaccine information and was suprised to see my name mentioned. I am a Physician Assistant and do traditional, natural, herbal and homeopathic medicine at the Healing Center in Lakeview, Michigan. We use homeopathic remedies to antidote the effects of vaccines on the autistic and asberger children. We also do a lot of work with ADD/ADHD and kids with behavior disorders using natural things, attempting to get them off traditional medications.
Personally, I believe the risks of giving flu shots and immuniztions is too great to justify them and prefer teaching people to maintain their immune systems through nutrition and avoiding food allergies and antibiotics. There are natural treatments for all the viral illnesses that currently have recommended vaccines. These are herbal and homeopathic.
People can opt out of the vaccine program by signing a waiver. (Just google “vaccine waiver” and down load a copy), but do not do that until you have researched it and know in your own heart that you are doing the right thing. Your doctor or pediatrician will probably disagree and push you to give the immunizations (mostly for their own medical/legal reasons because immunizing is considered the Standard of Care by the AMA and the legal system). So either be very strong in your convictions and know why you are doing it or find a Dr. who supports your decision.
Vaccines are not the total cause of autism, but I have seen a direct connection in many children. In addition to that, I have been doing this for 35 years and have never seen a single case of measles, rubella, tetanus, polio, or diptheria. Many would argue that this is because of immunizations, but in countries that do not immunize, these illnesses are not seen either. I have treated numerous cases of whooping cough and some mumps. This was done very successfully with homeopathy and herbal immune boosters.
Hepatitis B is transmitted sexually or by dirty needles. It should not be given to infants unless there is history in the parents of IV drug use or if the parents have Hepatitis B. It makes no sense on day one of life to give this infant with an untouched immune system an exposure to a nasty virus like Hep B, not to mention the other foreign material in the shot.
Study and trust you intuition. Dr Mercola is a good resource for opposition to vaccinations. Check that out at http://www.mercola.com.
KitchenKop says
It’s great to hear from someone so close by, thanks for sharing your thoughts on all this. 🙂
Summer says
I have never posted, but I was looking for Weston Price meal plans and stumbled upon your site.
I have a child with vaccine damage from the MMR and DTap – my kid/life IS the anecdotal evidence — and so are the millions in the VAERS database (database of reported side effects to vaccines which is searchable online (https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php)). I do a lot of biomedical support for children with autism and nearly 90% have a concrete vaccine-induced issue.
Initially, I took the religious exemption (https://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements.aspx) because of the aborted fetal matter, swine and how the vaccines were made. I had three religious exemptions signed and notarized for the school, doctor’s office and my files. Later, a pediatric neurologist offered a medical exemption for the entire family due to my daughter’s issues.
I decided to go to a naturopath or herbalist and, for a time, we did homeopathic nosodes in lieu of vaccines. At first, I went to the ND and then went to my MD to validate findings, but everything always meshed; none of us have been to a medical doctor for at least 5 years. For the past 7 years, we may get A cold about once a year (instead of being healthy only 1/6 of the year). My youngest and oldest girls had the flu catch them last week – they had a sore throat one evening, fever the next, which we allowed to run up and sweat out (w/o anything but Boiron Oscillo), and the next day they were up and playing with a minor runny nose, no fever, etc.
With regards to your question, a doctor’s office is a business. I don’t support Nestle because of their formula issues, I buy organic and support family farms when I can. I watch what I buy and where I buy it so that I am not supporting things I don’t believe in. Why would you want to support a business like your doctor’s office who doesn’t share your beliefs and support YOU when there are others out there that do?
Kris the crunchy catholic Mom says
Kelly, I was just searching for some flu shot info you might have and stumbled upon this. Which is another whole topic (dh’s work trying to force him to take a flu shot).
I am currently researching changing completly to a ND and leaving the MD world completely. WE are currently in my mind paying for two very different worlds of health insurance preventative and MD world. I buy so many homeopathics for our family and with our WAP lifestly costing more money than SAD diet. I think we may give up our $500 a month insurance which we NEVER use. And pay for a emergency plan for our family – looks like AFLA has a good emergency coverage plan. In case of a broken bone/care accident etc.
I don’t htink we would take a antibiotic unless we got REALLY sick and then we would just go to the ER. THat is after seeing a ND Dr.
Just a thought – boy I could feel so much better about paying sooo much more money for milk etc. if we didn’t pay that $500 a month which we don’t even use.
Kris
Jan says
My kids are grown, 24 and 26. We had a few of the shots but did not go the whole route. My son did have a reaction which the Drs. denied. Thankfully we were never pushed for more shots. We ended up with no insurance and not much money so most of our decision was made for us. I never felt comfortable putting that stuff into the kids. We used the walk in Drs. when we had a need and that was rare. It’s hard not to think about the what ifs. I know I did. I would definitely run from the Drs. just covering their behinds.
Cristina says
Hello Kelly,
I read your post several days ago, and could not shake the desperation in your writing. Over the past several years I have become increasingly skeptical with any/all dogma; and I am currently experiencing discrimination in the workplace due to my refusal for the flu vaccination (as I experienced last year, too, with the H1N1-hype). I work in a hospital with draconian policies, but have no other choice but to stay with them (considering the national unemployment rate, I’m very fortunate to have this job).
I don’t know about your doctor’s clinic, but ours are all tied together under one large organization, and if you leave one doctor (regardless of reason), you are “blacklisted” in the computer as a non-compliant and difficult patient. I recommend that anyone looking for another physician remove themselves completely from that organization, and find an independent physician/clinic. Hopefully this is not the case with you.
I agree completely with AnnMarie from cheeseslave — do your research, and check the links she posted. Don’t arbitrarily sign their declination form; there is a legal link AnnMarie posted that you can peruse for information. Know your rights, be informed, and don’t be bullied!
Best Regards.
MrsKM says
Hi! First time poster here. This whole discussion is very interesting to me. Currently, our family’s position is vaccinations when needed. Ten years ago, when we followed the schedule, my daughter actually did break out with chicken pox after having the vaccine, and I’ve since heard other anecdotes of how that vaccine really seemed to cause more problems than help.
But anyway, the question that comes up for me is…(and maybe this has been addressed before…my apologies…I’m just trying to find information)…
Have vaccines been safer to use in the past? Are they riskier now because of how they are manufactured?
Thanks, Kelly, for being transparent with this situation. Our family is in a situation where we’re beginning to explore this–my sister is a physician, and guess what side of the fence she’s on. I can’t discuss a lot of things with her anymore, and that puts up a barrier and it hurts! I respect her position and the ability she has learned in order to heal, but I can’t buy into everything (and the respect is not reciprocated).
MrsSM
Sally says
Just one more thing: it’s not the antigens in the vaccines that worry me so much. It’s all the other crap. Er, poisons.
Sally says
I will come back later today to read all the comments — you have some smart lovely readers!!! YES: run from that doctor group. I wouldn’t even explain why (other than to say we have chosen a new doctor and leave it at that) because who knows which one of them will be vindictive?
I stopped going to the pediatrician when my boys were about 4 and 5. No well baby checks. Not because I was smart enough to be aware, I just didn’t like vaccines and… they were well. I didn’t need anyone to tell me that, lol. My ignorance worked for me sometimes!
I remember the overwhelming fear of “bad things happening” when the boys were little: I’m a big what-iffer, even now that I’m old (55 so not ancient). I’ve had to put the brakes on there: So what, what if? Life is full of surprises and my best times are when I’ve done stuff in spite of what if. As my friends like to remind me, my children (and me) have a Higher Power and it’s not me.
Alexis says
Basically it just sounds like your doctor’s office is losing money by more and more people not doing the typical vaccination schedule so they are out to make more money! Very sad!
Krystal says
Vaccines are indeed an un-natural assault on the immune system. When injected directly into the body, the immune system cannot recognize the threat and mount a proper defense. There is plenty of suppressed scientific evidence to prove that vaccines are a danger to both human and animal. Google Dr. Patricia Jordan, one of the foremost vaccine researchers in the world, albeit with a focus on animals, but applied equally to humans.
KitchenKop says
Yowza guys, I haven’t had time to read all these comments until now and I see I have missed a lot of good stuff these last couple days!!!
Stanley, your list was absolutely, utterly heartbreaking… All that which will never be proven. Wow.
As usual, you have all given such great advice!!!!!!!!!!! Great links, too, thank you for caring. I love the concept of just utilizing the med centers/urgent care centers if needed. And I am blessed to already know a couple great natural docs that can help me if there are any medical issues like bad colds or something, but thankfully, we’ve only had that ONCE in the past few years, and I’m talking about for all 6 of us.
BTW, you know I was being sarcastic with that line about “wicked” parents who had the “gall” to do their own research, right? That wasn’t in the letter like that, but it did discuss the 10 step protocol for handling “those people”.
Kel
Rita says
Ann Marie, my experience only goes as far as the doctor end. What the insurance companies cook up with big Pharma is a mystery to me. I permanently abandoned the AAP when they recommended statins for children. The fact that they have welcomed every addition to the vaccine schedule without question only puts more nails in their figurative coffin. I am not anti-vaccine (like Natasha Campbell-McBride) but the number that have been foisted on children has to be reevaluated.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@ Rita
A good point you made:
“The doctor
Amanda says
Kelly, I wanted to chime in quickly and offer my opinion about your doctor situation right now. My husband is in the Coast Guard, and we have moved THREE times in the last twelve months. Big moves. So, we couldn’t build a relationship with a pediatrician if we wanted to. Which we wouldn’t, really, with the caliber of doctors our kids have seen. I would love to be able to take our children (and us for that matter) to naturopaths, but we’d have to pay out of pocket and we just can not afford it.
This whole blog is basically proof how much you care you put into your job as mother. There’s a country full of people like us who can’t build relationships with doctors because of circumstances beyond our control, and we are all OK. I know that’s over-simplifying things a bit, but I just wanted to assure you that if you break up with your doctor, you and your children will be OK.
Good luck with your decision!
Rita says
I’m briefly taking the doctor’s point of view—–Insurance reviewers come to the office to review selected charts of their insurees. Each insurance company has their own reviewers. The doctor’s compensation depends on the percentage of that insurers patients that are compliant with recommended practices. The only way the doctor can protect him/herself from fee withholding (insurer keeping money the doctor earned) is to document the extreme efforts taken to bring non-compliant patients into line. It is not a good system but it is what we got when we put insurers between ourselves and our doctors instead of just paying out of pocket, like in the old days.
The insurers are ONLY about making money. Doctors used to be about helping patients (and making a living, we all need to make a living), but now they have to employ business offices to recoup their earnings. This is one of the reasons health care is now so expensive, instead of your health care dollars going to pay the doctor, his/her staff, and overhead costs along with an inexpensive catastrophic insurance policy—-the money now pays that plus the required doctors business office, and now the larger insurance company infrastructure including all the worker bees that deny coverage, monitor compliance, and make decisions about your care that the doctor no longer can. It is not a good system for you or your doctor but it employs a lot of people and gives big big salaries to insurance company CEOs. Look at your doctor bills and realize the doctor’s earnings are 10-25% of those charges. All the rest is overhead and insurance costs.
That said—It’s time to jettison your doctor and let him know why he has lost your business. Find a naturopath, there are many M.D. naturopaths if you feel more comfortable with an M.D. Drive a little further and self-pay if your new provider is off the insurance grid.
Don’t sign anything. I used to be blase about the refusal form but someone brought up the possibility of child protective services using it as evidence that you are not providing proper care if you were ever entered into their system.
Good luck.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist says
Kelly, you don’t need a doctor like this. I’m sure if you ask around, you will find one that respects you and doesn’t harass you about your decision to forgo shots. If you absolutely cannot find an MD that respects your wishes without harassment and lots of paperwork, then find a DO (as opposed to an MD). These doctors can prescribe just like an MD but are much more holistic in approach. Don’t worry about burning a bridge. This doctor of yours is the one that started the fire anyway, not you, so he doesn’t deserve your business anyway.
dani says
Okay, two pervasive thoughts:
Julia–it’s an OUTRAGE that doctors/physicians assistants/nurses/etc. will not only think this way, but will voice their opinions in such horrible fashion as to belittle a parent exercising her rights. However, this is where we live: the land of the free. People read up on what’s given to them, and so many in the medical community don’t even realize that the CDC & other groups (that feed reading material to the doctors) that make all these “recommendations” DON’T EVEN DO THE TESTS THEMSELVES but rely on the test results (let’s not even imagine that they’re skewed) as translated and provided by the very drug companies pushing for their widespread approval. Let’s not for a second talk about lobbyists sent to brainwash Congress, or even sales representatives sent to brainwash the very screamers themselves.
My second point of comment is this: Kelly, I sure hope you are planning a post to discuss “A 10-step procedure is then listed out for handling these wicked families who have the GALL to do their research and try to make the best choices for their kids
CarmenV says
Kelly here is another site which was recommended by a gal helping her after she was ‘fired’ as a patient because she didn’t want to vaccinate her daughter years ago. hope it helps you with your research. https://www.vaccineinfo.net/
blessings ~ carmen
Julia says
My sister has three boys and the pediatrician recommended the gardasil vaccination and when she refused he told her “you don’t want to be responsible for their penises falling off in the future!” Can you believe that a medical doctor would say that to a mother? It is ridiculous.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
Luther — Are you a pharmaceutical shill? You do realize you won’t convince anyone here to share your point of view with your hateful and inaccurate speech, which you aren’t even able to back up with facts. I noticed you didn’t leave any contact information either so we could see who are. Hmm….
People like this make me sick. Don’t insult people who DO THEIR RESEARCH and make sound choices.
Stanley Fishman says
Rare? Let’s look at the people I know personally.
I knew a beautiful baby boy who was thriving, trying to talk, active, and happy. He got very sick after being vaccinated, and after a few days, became severely autistic. The kind of Autism where he did not respond to anything, could not be communicated with. He never recovered. The doctors said it was a coincidence.
I knew a baby girl who was also healthy, happy and thriving. She got vaccinated, developed a high fever, was screaming in agony, until she fell asleep. She never woke up . The Doctors said it was SIDS.
I knew another baby girl. She also had swellings, fever and screaming.She developed type one diabetes just after being vaccinated. The serious kind, the kind were she can die at any moment. The doctors said it was a coincidence.
I knew another baby boy. he too was healthy and thriving, and tall for his age. He grew very slowly after swelling, fever, etc. He is almost a dwarf. Here, the doctors admitted that a “one in a million allergic reaction” may have stunted his growth.
I know another baby girl. She too, was happy and thriving, was vaccinated, had swelling and fever. She developed frequent epileptic seizures. The Doctors said it was a coincidence. Fortunately, her mother put her on a real food diet sometime later and the seizures stopped.
I used to have a secretary who worked for me. She got vaccinated as part of traveling to Africa. She developed Guillan Barre syndrome and was almost totally crippled. She began to be crippled shortly after being vaccinated. The doctors said it was a coincidence.
Not so rare, as these are just the people I know.
I know dozens of children who have never been vaccinated, not for anything. None of them have ever been seriously ill.
CarmenV says
Kelly, its obvious you and your husband are not settled in your mind about this, maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something, listen to it, He is our counselor and our comforter.
I know you are woman of faith and so I can tell you this. God doesn’t give us a spirit of fear but a spirit of power, love and sound mind. Believe in Him and He will give you the answers.
we stopped vaccinating many years ago, we homeschool and praise the LORD we rarely go to the doctors.
Here is a piece I wrote when I first started blogging, a review on a very informative book, Vaccines are they really safe. so you can make up your own mind. https://pebblecrossing.blogspot.com/2010/05/vaccines-are-they-really-safe-effective.html
here is another organization to help with your research https://www.thinktwice.com/laws.htm
The issue for is not only is it, unsafe but it is totally unkosher, not interested in putting monkey in our children’s bodies…
continue to be in prayer Kelly.
blessings and shalom
carmen
Pavil the Uber Noob says
@The CheeseSlave.
Ann Marie, you are a jewel!.
Jessie says
I second the walk-in clinic idea. Our family does not have a regular doctor, but I’ve personally been to the local urgent care center several times in the last couple years (twice for cysts, once for an injured foot). No hassle — pay upfront, they don’t bug you about vaccines (although they do push the antibiotics), and one time they even referred me to a surgeon for minor surgery.
There are options apart from sticking with your pediatrician. Just don’t make your decision based solely on fears and what-ifs!
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@ Rebecca
Here are some resources to help you do your research — including info about state requirements
https://www.thinktwice.com/
https://www.vaclib.org/
Also I follow Dr. Tenpenny on Facebook — she is a wealth of information:
https://www.facebook.com/vaccineinfo
Pavil the Uber Noob says
Every real food parent crosses this vaccination bridge and it is not a happy place.
I appreciate your sharing this, Kelly. I don’t envy your angst here.
The junk science in our culture is pervasive and it flourishes in the pharmaceutical industry. What passes for food & medicine is a scandal.
Rebecca says
I am pregnant with my first child and do not know a lot about this. Are there certain vaccinations that are required by law and others that are optional? Does it vary from state to state? How would I find out which ones are mandatory and which are not? I am new to this.
Thanks.
Dawn @ Small Footprint Family says
I was blessed to find a pediatrician who was totally fine with altered vaccine schedules or none at all, and she always prescribed natural remedies before pharmaceutical ones. However, I quickly realized that, without vaccinating, there was absolutely NO reason to go to well baby visits, except to weigh and measure her–which I could do at home.
We have subsequently moved cross-country, but I have never bothered to find another pediatrician. There are plenty of NDs and DOs here, IF we need them. And clinics and the ER are available should we need allopathic medicine.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
Oh and watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKp-iPSl1gQ
You only need ONE shot for this tragedy to happen to your child.
Permanent paralysis. Worth the risk? I think not!
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@ Luther
I’m not religious and I do not vaccinate. I do not allow my child to be vaccinated not because of anything to do with religion — it is because the risks outweigh the benefits.
Look at these graphs:
https://www.cheeseslave.com/2008/10/22/vaccines-do-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/
Almost every single disease was erradicated BEFORE the introduced the vaccine.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@ Luther
Odds of side effects may be rare but it only takes ONE bad shot to ruin your whole life.
I know too many parents who rue the day they vaccinated their child. Kids have ended up losing language and developing autism or ASD or nervous system disorders or partial paralysis.
Is it REALLY WORTH THE RISK?
Interesting — just saw a post from Sally Fallon Morell this morning on the chapter leader’s list. Someone was asking about whether or not to get vaccines before going on a trip out of the country. Sally said she knew someone who had gotten vaccines for a trip — this is what she wrote:
“I remember meeting a lady who developed Gilliam Barre and severe chronic
fatigue after taking a bunch of vaccinations for a trip–she was never right
afterwards. We have a chapter leader who had the same experience. Don’t do it! Don’t do it! Don’t do it!”
Luther says
To all of the religious zealots. God will not protect your child from disease. Vaccines do. You not only put your child at risk by not giving them vaccines, you put those who are not able to take vaccines (due to compromised immune systems, etc) at risk. If you want to be responsible for killing your child or an innocent person, then by all means, do not get them vaccinated.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
A doctor should not make you feel scared or guilty or like a bad parent.
This is why we FIRED our pediatrician.
When a door closes, a window opens.
It was letting go of our fear-mongering, guilt-inducing pediatrician that led us to the wonderful homeopath/MD/WAPF-centered pediatrician we have now. We would have never found her if we didn’t go looking.
I know you live in a small town but it can’t be THAT small that you can’t find another doctor.
Luther says
I think you should give them the vaccine. The odds of side effects are extremely rare. It’s much more likely they will die of flu.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
Kelly, I’m addressing some of these issues on my blog in the next few weeks. The idea that we “need” vaccines and other drugs. I need to tell our full story in that area too, and why I just don’t trust or feel the need for a “regular” doctor at all anymore. I can consult with my chiropractor or homeopathic doctors in my area if I feel I NEED to, but generally I just don’t.
To make our story very (very) short, we had a series of incidences with doctors from Dec. ’06 through Nov. ’09 (yeah, I’m slow, it took me three years to learn!) where they didn’t trust us, didn’t believe us, didn’t listen to us, and always, ultimately it was my own research that made the difference for us. These are different doctors, different areas of the state, different specialties, different practices, etc. They didn’t know each other, they were for different family members, etc. Some of them helped us a “little” and those were the alternative-minded ones. But still it was my own research that put the pieces together and really made the difference. I have learned through this NOT to trust them and NOT to put my faith in them. I put my faith in God and the instincts He gave me and I trust the medicine He made available all around us. It takes awhile to arrive there (honestly we were halfway there when we started our real food conversion, because of our experiences), but that’s where we are. I have little respect for most doctors and absolutely no fear of illness.
Barbara Geatches. says
Based on what you have posted, I would run as fast as I can from that doctor’s practice. I wouldn’t trust them if my child got sick. Like many others I quit taking my children to well visits…what was the point? other than to hear their pitch on getting vaccinations and putting money in the doc’s pocket when my children didn’t have any need for seeing a doctor.
We moved cross country over 2 years ago and I don’t have a “regular” medical doctor. (I have 2 children ranging in age from 5-13) If something should happen that needs immediate attention there are walk in clinics and the ER. If it is not immediate than I don’t need allopathic medicine to address it… they will heal faster, quicker and better by treating it holistically.
That’s my 2 cents.
ValerieH says
If you choose to go the walk-in clinic route…. Advice that I have received for the ER. Often the ER will check on vaccine status. If someone is out of schedule they will push them there. A possible answer to give is something to the effect of, “Those records are kept with our family doctor and we will follow up with that office.” One of my worries is that my in-laws will have to take them to the ER while babysitting. I don’t want them to blurt out that we don’t vaccinate. I would want them to just play dumb and assure the ER that it is taken care of by our doctor.
Cara says
Kelly, I wouldn’t take this. I do just fine in walk in clinics for the very rare occasion that we need antibiotics or anything. If anyone in your family had chronic/severe issues, they’d be referred right away to a specialist. My daughter sees a developmental pediatrician who is concerned primarily about her development (she has ASD) and doesn’t hassle us at all about vaccines. Specialists haven’t ever bothered us about vaccinating, they’re concerned about their specialty. I think it’s almost like primary care doctors ‘specialty’ is vaccination…
Christie says
I would not sign any form. These can be used against you. Not to mention that the entire paragraph was insulting and I would leave that practice over that. We don’t do well checks in our house…we watch to see that the children are growing and eating well. We only got to the ped. for serious illnesses which means we have been twice in 5 years. I would go with a naturopath and in most places there is always patient first if you really really need anti-biotics. For school checks I would go to a local clinic.
ValerieH says
Blessing to you. This is a thorny issue. How do you know they aren’t reading your blog, btw? It sounds to me as though the doctor practice is not willing to work with you in any way. I find the certified letter business obnoxious. The fact that they dogmatically stick to their vaccine schedule makes no sense to me. That might just be what they say in their paperwork but you can negotiate face to face.
You’re lucky you have the option of an ND. I think they are illegal in IL. My sister-in-law goes to a chiro who also uses homeopathy. For better or worse, he’s their family doctor in her eyes. My family doctor practice only gives vaccinations to those who REQUEST them. How’s that for a switch? They give advice on how to word the religious exemption to the school. They are very careful how they talk about it and always stay within the law to protect themselves. Instead of signing their form, perhaps you could write a religious exemption letter for each child (I think MI has that option) and put it in the file. You are within your rights under the law to do so. I think there are laws protecting us from medical interventions we do not want. Perhaps that varies per state.
One thing I don’t understand about vaccination. When they are criticizing Dr. Sears’ vaccine schedule, they say if too many people did that it would put the population at risk. Wouldn’t the vaccinated people not get sick? And if other people saw that vaccines really prevent illness, wouldn’t they then go get vaccinated? So how is that dangerous? Whenever I read about an outbreak of illness, like the pertussis outbreak in NY last year, I always read carefully to find out whether the sick kids were vaccinated or not. It is common that 75% of the sick people were vaccinated. So how does that protect us? What if we are actually keeping these illnesses around? When people are vaccinated, they shed the virus for a period of time. So my kids got the vaccine by sitting next to their peers at school. I guess that’s the concept of herd immunity. But how can my children put others at risk?
Heather M says
Kelly,
The fact that they sent you this paper work certified mail tells you where you stand already. You are (in their eyes) a liability and they wont chance it with you. Now…..there is one thing that trumps all. You are a Christian, and as a Christian you must take this in pray to the Lord!!!!!! Wait until you get an anwer from Him – NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!
Motherhen68 says
I thought about this last week with your other post about your doctor. Don’t ya’ll have “walk-in clinics” in your area? We have them here, they are run by doctors and you go specifically to them for when you are sick or have minor ailments. Since you’re on the fence about well visits, I’d say there really isn’t a reason to have a peditrician, but take advantage of these walk in clinics.
Honestly, my ped is sometimes so booked up when my kids DO need to get in and see her, it’s easier to take them to a walk in clinic. It took 4 weeks for my son to get an appointment just to get a sports physical! That’s just overbooking, IMO.
Good luck with your decision. It’s very disturbing to me that you are receiving these letters. My nurse told me because my kids vax schedule is “not up to date” they cannot give out that information to any 3rd party. I was thinking “well, good, because it’s no one’s business what I do”. Funny how Louisiana would have this type of law and MI is into threatening to get kids vaxed.
Rich Zeck says
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! There is only one God and if we pray “on earth as it is in heaven” then we need to let go and let God. Fear is the opposite of faith.
Rich Zeck says
Thoughts: there are plenty of naturopaths and chiropractors in the world- why concerned about burning bridges? If my doctor didn’t respect my wishes then I would say good by. It is my health-not the doctors!
Why is it a law in Japan not to vacinate a child before age 2?
Can you tell me that injecting, anything, directly into the blood stream is non-evasive versus allowing to the body to slowly intake a germ or virus?
Why is it that we allow doctors and society to project fear into our lives? We “might” need a doctor if we need an antibiotic or other sickness? We might be hit by lightening or by a bus! God created a magnificent body- let it work. Is faith that which is seen or unseen? Or is faith in doctors?
Jen says
When I read your post today all I continued to think was “go to a naturopath”. I was pleasantly surprised to see the initial comments saying the same thing. A good naturopath with a solid background in herbalism can help any patient with just about anything. No one in our house has needed antibiotics in YEARS. We’ve had sinus infections, respiratory infections, strep throat and more. Most of which we treated at home (with things like http://www.learningherbs.com) and some of which we had to get help for. All of which were treated without western medicine. If you ever do need additional help from western medicine, head to an urgent care center or a specialist. Yes, they don’t know you or your family but you do. They tend to be less concerned with vaccine history.
nicole says
Kelly, I would not be able to run fast enough from your doctor! Seek a naturopath! Have biofeedback done when you or your children are not well. You will be amazed and feel so awesome about your decision.
Sarah says
Hi Kelly,
I too am local to you. I first heard you speak at a WAP meeting a few years ago and have since tried to stay caught up with your awesome blog! I don’t normally comment either, but I recently got “kicked out” of my pediatrician’s office because of my refusal to finish my 6 year old’s vaccinations. I was berated by a nurse who later went on to tell my neighbor exactly what she thought of “bad mother’s like me”. What she didn’t know is that I have spent the last year going to school to become a Naturopath myself and I was just looking for someone to sign the school’s health form. As I read your blog this morning I was reminded that I felt like you do right now just two years ago. However, since I’ve started school I realize even more why vaccines are unhealthy. To speak to where you are now, I say look at Dr. Sherri Tenpenny who gives VERY complete information on vaccines. Her research is straight from the source, yes the CDC. She has two videos that are well worth the time and money. Second, I can give you the name of a family doctor who will support you if you want that, but I agree with Hanna. A naturopath will help you get what you need in the event that you do have an illness. PS if you really want some vaccinations you can get them for $3 homeopathically!
I applaud your research and all the work you do to get the word out about nutrition and issues like vaccines. I send all my contacts to your blog!
Sarah
Jenni says
Kelly,
I don’t usually comment I just read your blog. I live locally to you and was wondering why you don’t choose to go with a naturopathic doctor. There are a couple in our area that are highly recommended. The one is Bob Huttinga in Lakeview. Bob is good to see since he knows about herbs and natruopathic meds but he also will follow mainstream medicine if you are not comfortable with something. He does accept some insurance. Email me privately if you would like more info on him. (some people from our food coop see him if you would like some more advice.) My thoughts are if you are not agreeing with your doctor then you need to find a different doctor. There are a ton of doctors out there and it seems to me that we need to think of ourselves as the people that pay there bills. They need to start treating us as the consumers. Aren’t the customers always right. This post has made me realize how much the medical feels they are our god. Sorry I only have one God and I am going to listen to the way he is guiding me whether it makes them happy or not.
Jenni
Hallee the Homemaker says
We vaccinate. I didn’t get Kaylee the one that they’re pushing for teenaged girls because it just didn’t feel right to me. But, the standard list of children’s vaccinations throughout babyhood and toddlerhood, we gave and continue to give right on schedule. In fact, I was surprised that Scott, a 3lb 5oz preemie, got his first Hep vaccine in the NICU very soon after birth.
That said, this paperwork is insulting. This is obviously not the doctor for you. It’s time to make a new relationship with a new doctor.
Hanna says
Hey! I haven’t been following along on your blog before – but your tweet caught my eye so now I’m here 😉
I have four kids as well and I got so tired of being “different” and nit blindly going along with what our conventional doctor told us – that we chose to skip mainstream medicine altogether, and go to a naturopathic doctor for check ups and guidance. We decided to get serious about health, and to keep educating ourselves about how to stay healthy, rather than treating potential illness. We typically turn to herbs and homeopathics when we need health boosters.
You do get a long, long way on the best nutrition and a happy outlook on life.
You may find, like we did, that one unconventional decision led to the other, and pretty soon you’ll need to jump into taking full responsibility for life and health yourself, rather than in leaving it the hands of your MD.
(BTW – we are all much healthier than we’ve ever been. My dh just got a preferred health rating on his new life insurance and according to the agent, he hardly ever sees those.)