Kelly The Kitchen Kop

Kefir Soda…An Alcoholic Beverage? (Real Food Wednesday)

October 7, 2009 · 33 comments

IMG_3693

You won’t believe all the steps it took to finally get a solid answer on the question of how much alcohol is really in kefir soda pop.

First, to make sure we’re all on the same page:

  1. Did you see this post?  How and Why to make kefir soda pop – it’s simple and full of healthy probiotics!
  2. And you’ll need to know where to get kefir grains: you can visit my resources page – Note:  I’ll be paid a small amount per click if you buy through this link, and I thank you!  :) (Remember you have to wait for it to fully load before it gets to the fermented foods/kefir grains section.)
  3. Lastly, are you wondering what in the world are kefir grains?   Wikipedia:  “Kefir grains are a combination of bacteria and yeasts in a matrix of proteins, lipids, and sugars. This symbiotic matrix forms grains that resemble cauliflower.”  That clears it up nicely, eh?  It goes on to say, “Today, kefir is becoming increasingly popular due to new research into its health benefits. Many different bacteria and yeasts are found in the kefir grains, which are a complex and highly variable community of micro-organisms.”

So why does it matter, anyway?

This past summer I took some of my bottled kefir soda when we were meeting my family (siblings, nieces & nephews) at Mom’s pool.  Our kids love our homemade pop and I couldn’t wait for the family to try it, hoping I could get them, by some miracle, to start making and drinking this instead of pop.

They weren’t impressed.

First they couldn’t believe I was making homemade pop in the first place.  Then they couldn’t get over the alcoholic smell, and joked about what Aunt Kelly was doing to all the nieces & nephews, we had some good laughs over that!  It does have a little fermented taste and smell (because, HELLO!, it’s fermented!), but not a lot in my opinion.  Next, they thought it was a little bland.  Keep in mind that most of them drink Mountain Dew or other sodas regularly, so a drink that’s not overpoweringly sweet is going to taste more bland to them.  As I said, my kids loved it!  (But they don’t even get juice regularly, let alone pop, so they thought it was a big treat – don’t let the secret out that it’s actually good for them…)

Many have speculated about the alcohol content in kefir soda pop, but I wanted to know for sure so I could tell my family, lest they think I’m turning my kids into boozers.  My step-Dad, Carl, (whom I absolutely adore, by the way), was convinced it had at least 4% alcohol, but online most sources guess it at more like 1%.

So I was going to figure this out.

IMG_3747I started out on my own, assuming it couldn’t be that tricky.  After some internet research, I bought a hydrometer at the beer-making store, and made another trip when I realized I didn’t have the right container to float it in.  Then I had the right equipment, but when I was finally ready to take my readings, I realized our cute little 4 year old had broken the hydrometer while looking it over one day.  So it was back to the beer-making store for another one (thankfully they’re only $5) and I could finally get started.  (See the hydrometer floating in this container?)  IMG_3698

I got a new batch of kefir soda going for my “before” readings, and the next day I finished a batch, bottled it and let it set like normal before I took my “after” readings.  But my results weren’t clear.

Thankfully I had someone to call…

Kevin-kefirMy sweetheart brother in-law, Kevin, is a chemist.  Not only that, lucky for me, he also brews his own beer now and then.  Kevin had no idea at the time what he was getting into when I first called him about this, but even at about 50 emails into it, he was still saying things like, “I’m having a fun time with this little chemistry experiment!”

He did some research and found a formula for me to follow, which brought me back to my days in chemistry class.  IMG_3746He explained that before I could get an accurate “after” reading, I had to boil it down to get rid of the carbonation.  But then I had to get it back down to the right temperature, and be sure I was measuring in the same amounts of liquid, so I was comparing apples to apples.  I did all this, but my readings still weren’t clear.

So Kevin decided he would like to test this out for himself.

Now, all thanks to him, and after a lot more pooping around that I don’t want to bore you with (as if you’re not sleeping already, although I actually think this is fun!), we finally have a solid number:

Amount of alcohol in kefir soda pop, based on my recipe: 0.64% alcohol by volume.

Woohooo!!!  Not even close to 4% alcohol!

Kevin’s comments on the taste:The soda itself wasn’t bad. I definitely taste the yeast, and maybe that’s what your family is tasting that makes them think of beer.

Now for you ‘details’ people…

For those of you who are more detailed oriented like I am, I’ll share a few of the email exchanges between Kevin & I.  Keep in mind I’m only sharing a few random parts that I thought might be interesting to you, so if something doesn’t jive just right, it’s my fault, not Kevin’s, and it’s also very late right now as I edit this, so cut me some slack.

Kevin:

Okay, I got home tonight and played some more.  After another day, my soda was well carbonated.  I’ll call it “medium” on the carbonation, not quite a can of coke, but plenty for my tastes.  I took a sample, heated it in the microwave to get rid of the carbonation, then cooled and measured spec grav.  I get 0.64% by volume (0.50% by weight).  Not bad.  I think it just took a while for the yeast to kick off.  Not sure why, but that happens with beer sometimes too, so it’s not surprising.

So I did some investigating and calculating. Here’s what I have. This all assumes that little or no alcohol is formed during the initial kefir grain / sugar water fermentation phase. I’m not sure how good of an assumption this is, but my process never formed any alcohol during this phase, and from your spec. grav readings, it doesn’t sound like yours did either. So, I assume that the alcohol is only formed in the bottle, and I assume that our final fizziness is about the same as a can of coke (3 volumes of CO2 added per can, according to a couple internet sources). Then, from the chemical reaction that the yeast uses to make alcohol, I know that we get 1 CO2 for each 1 alcohol molecule. This means, that to get 3 volumes of CO2, we would get a MAXIMUM of 0.7% alcohol by volume. Sorry, does that make any sense?  Basically, this says that if your Kefir soda is equal or less fizzy than a standard can of coke, then you have less than 0.7% alcohol.

Me:

Just to clarify, you’re saying that the more carbonation, the more alcohol then, right?  So should I warn my readers that if they let it set on the counter longer than 18-24 hours, not only are their chances of a kitchen mess (and explosion) more likely, but also their alcohol content will also go up?

Kevin:

You are correct, more carbonation = more alcohol.  I would suggest that your readers stick with your initial suggestion and not let the soda stay in the bottle on the counter more than 24 hrs. I’m afraid they might explode some bottles if they let it go for 2 days.

A final note:

When I was leaving my bottled kefir soda on the counter for 24 hours, it was fizzing out the top when I opened it and wasting a good share of the soda.  I cut it back to 18 hours and this was just right.  It still had a good fizz, but most of the time it didn’t go all over.

Now that we know this kefir soda pop is fine for the kids, the next thing I’m making is a nice fermented drink for Momma – I’m ready to try a shot at making wine coolers!  Kevin, are you up for it?

real food wednesday Real Food Wednesday is hosted on Cheeseslave’s blog this week, assuming she has her web hosting company switched over – the nightmare continues…  If not, then RFW will be back here the following week!

Check out the new KITCHEN KOP REAL FOOD INGREDIENT GUIDE: only $5!

DON'T MISS NEW POSTS:

Subscribe in a reader
or Subscribe via e-mail for free blog updates.


Learn more from the COMMENTS BELOW - join the conversation!

{ 33 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Alchemille 10.07.09 at 12:22 am

I have tried kefir (in all possible liquids) before and I seem to remember that the more you shake the container, the higher the alcohol content (read that somewhere).
I don’t use kefir grains anymore because I don’t like the taste and my body doesn’t like yeasts too much.
You can get some pretty good carbonation with raw milk whey too, it’s all about how much whey you use. I fermented some tea and since it just a little bit of sweetener, it tasted more like beer than soda ;) .

[Reply]

2

Jen 10.07.09 at 12:40 am

I just made my first batch of kombucha, and we love it!!! My husband has been raving about how happy he is to have a substitute for soda. I have water kefir grains, and that’s next (not rehydrated yet). My not quite 2yo son only drinks raw milk and water. I gave him a sip of kombucha, and he screwed up his face and handed it back to me. A sure sign he doesn’t want any more… LOL!

Thanks for doing this experiment. Now I have real info for family visits, once I start brewing my own water kefir soda.

BTW, I have a biology and chemistry degree, and this was QUITE the experiment! Kudos to you and Kevin for hanging in there, and finding the answer! :)

[Reply]

3

Local Nourishment 10.07.09 at 1:26 am

Wait. Won’t heating the kefir reduce the alcohol? You know, like you simmer wine in a stew to leave the flavor but boil off the alcohol? No chem degree here, just curious.

I don’t drink (not a law of mine, just too cheap to buy it) so I was concerned when the first couple times I drank kombucha I got the same relaxed feeling in my shoulders (where I carry tension) as a few sips of wine. I never experienced anything other than a minor relaxation response, and that disappeared after the first several bottles. I’m sure glad you did this experiment! Thanks! (BTW, I’m so paranoid about explosions that I only leave the first ferment for 12 hours and the second for about 2.)

[Reply]

4

Betsy 10.07.09 at 6:03 am

At the beginning of your post when you mentioned that the gizmo is only $5 I was thinking I’d get one and test my own brews. By the end of the post I was saying “no way!!!”. :)

Interesting about the carbonation. Mine isn’t very fizzy, certainly not fizzing over the top. I thought that was something I wanted to improve on, but maybe not if it means more alcohol.

Thanks for doing the experiment, and thanks to Kevin, too. I have a helpful brother-in-law named Kevin, too.

[Reply]

5

Jessie 10.07.09 at 7:22 am

I think your experiement is very exciting!! I enjoyed reading it & also knowing the results!

[Reply]

6

cellulite analyst 10.07.09 at 7:47 am

I get that same feeling in the shoulders with kombucha sometimes. Does anyone know what the alcohol content of kombucha is compared with the kefir soda? (Not that you should do another experiment, Kelly!! I haven’t tried the kefir soda yet, but I figure if you’ve had both it would be easy to tell which one had more alcohol??)

Thanks for following through with this experiment. I think this stuff is fun, too!

[Reply]

7

Vin - NaturalBias 10.07.09 at 8:12 am

Great experiment, Kelly! Sounds like something crazy that I would try. :)

[Reply]

8

NancyO 10.07.09 at 8:43 am

So I guess the “ripe banana” theory of how much alcolhol is in kefir is correct, then. Thanks for doing all this! I have given kefir freely to my children and have wondered, but haven’t worried about it. I’ve had a couple of people question it, too, and tease me about making “the recipe.” We’re like you…no cokes for so long that anything fizzy is a treat. I’m always a little surprised when someone tries it and doesn’t like it. But I was also pleasantly surprised when we had some family for pizza the other night and they brought cokes and my children and husband chose pineapple kefir over Dr. Pepper! Yea!!

[Reply]

9

Shauna 10.07.09 at 9:05 am

Kelly – I’m not familiar with Keifer soda – is it the same as Kombucha? I didn’t know there were yeasts in Keifer, I have only made the “regular keifer” – you know, that thick yogurt drink?

[Reply]

10

Wardeh @ GNOWFGLINS 10.07.09 at 11:13 am

Kelly ~ Very interesting~ I am so glad to know this! Regarding Kombucha, I get the same feeling as Cellulite Analyst and LocalNourishment – but I read somewhere that it is not the alcohol content (which is also supposed to be very low in K-tea) causing this but rather the blood pressure lowering effect. I don’t know if this is true -but I already have low blood pressure and after drinking K-tea, I have to lay down because my limbs feel so heavy and I can hardly move. ;) Not so much with WK. Fun, fun! (I enjoyed reading all the details.)

[Reply]

11

Laurie N 10.07.09 at 11:44 am

Alright, I must have slept wrong last night because I woke up this morning with sore shoulders, so I am going to go hit the kombucha and see if I get that shoulder relaxation you ladies are talking about. :-)

Love the info, Kelly. I have a friend visiting next week who has a degree in chemistry, so maybe we’ll have to see if we can replicate this experiment with home brew kombucha. It’d be a great homeschool lesson for the boys.

[Reply]

12

KitchenKop 10.07.09 at 11:55 am

Peggy, we heated it, but not to boiling, this way none of the alcohol was lost. Good question, though!

Shauna, it’s better tasting than Kombucha! Did you see my post comparing the two? http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2009/09/5-reasons-why-homemade-kefir-soda-pop-is-better-than-kombucha-tea.html

Laurie, in case you do the experiment, I think I forgot to mention that the formula Kevin used is done measuring specific gravity.

I just heard something that is bothering me! My sister in law told me that the non-alcoholic beer they drink is 0.5% and they have to be carded when they buy it!!!

Nancy, what’s the “ripe banana theory” you mentioned?

[Reply]

13

Jeanmarie 10.07.09 at 12:44 pm

Kelly, I’m so glad you did this instead of me…I wouldn’t have the patience to do all that!

When you talk about leaving kefir soda on the counter no longer than 24 hours, do you mean a second fermentation? Because mine is still way too sweet at 24 hours, I usually let it go 2 days. I don’t always do a second fermentation.

Thanks for an interesting read!

[Reply]

14

Jessie 10.07.09 at 2:01 pm

Yeah, I was gonna say — even non-alcoholic beer is 0.50%! That’s not bad at all… Thanks for going to all the effort to find out!

[Reply]

15

Diana 10.07.09 at 3:00 pm

I’m making my first batch right now. Thanks for posting the results!

[Reply]

16

Jenny @ Nourished Kitchen 10.07.09 at 4:08 pm

Very interesting, Kelly! I’d always wondered about that and few folks have asked me – I just said that I didn’t think it’d be more alcoholic than an over-ripe banana. Now THAT’s a project for Kevin!

[Reply]

17

Karen 10.07.09 at 5:49 pm

Fascinating stuff! (Of course was never good at chemistry, but I always love to know the results;-) Right now I’m participating in The Nourishing Gourmet’s “No Sugar Challenge’ http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2009/09/the-sugar-free-challenge.html
and my big ‘indulgence’ is Kombucha. I know I could do even better by making it on my own – and now you’ve given me even more reason…thank you, Kelly!

[Reply]

18

Sher 10.07.09 at 6:51 pm

Interesting stuff – I really liked apple juice kefir, and felt it had enough alcohol to give me a relaxed feeling. So I always diluted it a bit when I gave it to my kids. Nice to know for sure I don’t really need to do that.

I have to disagree on the taste issue though, I really prefer kombucha after a second ferment with fruit – the kefir grains with their yeasty taste sometimes get too beer-y for me.

[Reply]

19

KitchenKop 10.07.09 at 8:50 pm

Jeanmarie, yes, I was talking about the 2nd ferment. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Sher, you know, I never did try a 2nd ferment with kombucha…I would try it, but now that the kids like the kefir soda, I’m afraid to mess it up; also, I think the kefir soda is much less hassle than kombucha.

So, I hope you guys will tell me more about this ripe banana thing, because now that I know they card you for 0.5% NA beer, I’m second guessing all this and wondering if it IS actually OK for my kids to drink it!!! I always thought less than 1% was basically nothing, but I don’t know what to think now.

Kelly

[Reply]

20

Katie @ Kitchen Stewardship 10.07.09 at 9:27 pm

Although less than a percent isn’t bad for me, it makes me wonder about my 4-year-old and especially my little one-year-old, who loves the stuff! Am I giving her something I shouldn’t?? I don’t cap it in bottles but just leave the bottle on the counter for 24 hours after the 2-day fermentation. Maybe I should just skip that step entirely…

[Reply]

21

Jeanmarie 10.07.09 at 11:19 pm

Kelly, I really wouldn’t worry about something that’s less than 1% alcohol. While it’s true that over-consumption of alcohol is bad for the health, and it’s not something you’d want to give your children in any appreciable quantity, remember that many cultures (in Europe for instance) give kids watered-down alcohol as part of family meals or celebrations and they learn to drink in moderation and as part of a meal. The Puritanical approach in the U.S. (all or nothing!) doesn’t seem effective at preventing substance abuse. And certainly, the miniscule amount of alcohol in kefir sodas is really not going to give your kids a propensity towards alcoholism. There’s probably as much alcohol in ripe fruit. Julia Ross, Joan Matthews-Larsen and others think alcoholism is linked to hypoglycemia and sugar consumption, compounded by lack of protein and good fats in the diet. I think there’s also a genetic link. I am quite confident your kids are very well nourished and wouldn’t take to alcohol even if it was presented to them! I hope those kids know how lucky they are to have you as a mother!

Where do they card you for 0.5% nonalcoholic beer??! Ridiculous.

[Reply]

22

KitchenKop 10.07.09 at 11:31 pm

Jeanmarie,

You’re so sweet, but it’s not that I’m worried about them becoming alcoholics or anything, it’s just that I’m second guessing if it’s “OK”, ya know? Although, as I think about it more, mine only sat bottled on the counter for 18 hours, and may not even be AS fizzy as a Coke, so it could be much less than 0.64%. It’s not like they have it every day, anyway, usually a couple times a week at most, and once every week or two more likely, depending on what’s going on here.

It’s Michigan who cards for NA beer, so dumb.

Kelly

[Reply]

23

Kimberly Hartke 10.08.09 at 7:47 am

Since Cheeseslave doesn’t seem to be hosting the blog carnival today, thought I would still post the link to my Wednesday article here!

http://hartkeisonline.com/2009/10/07/david-gumperts-new-book-the-raw-milk-revolution-coming-soon/

Kimberly

[Reply]

24

Kyle 10.08.09 at 3:26 pm

Good research! Do you know if it’s similar for milk kefir? Some people in my family looked up kefir in the dictionary (to find out if it was real or something I made up) and they told me the definition was something like ‘fermented milk beverage’. Got some raised eyebrows, hahahaha.

[Reply]

25

Alyss 10.08.09 at 6:21 pm

Thanks for doing all that hard work for us! Great results, and a great resource.

Alyss

[Reply]

26

KitchenKop 10.08.09 at 7:20 pm

Sorry Kyle, I don’t know! I always think of “regular” kefir as drinkable yogurt.

[Reply]

27

Andrew 10.10.09 at 6:54 pm

Kyle, people tend to freak out when they hear the word “fermented”, especially combined with another word that they don’t typically associate with fermentation (vegetables, milk, tea, beans, fish, meat).

Kefir is fermented milk, but it’s no more unusual than yogurt, cheese, buttermilk, cream cheese, clabber, sour cream, crème fraîche, piimä, viili, etc. All fermented milk.

[Reply]

28

Kyle 10.11.09 at 7:04 pm

Thanks :) that’s true

[Reply]

29

KitchenKop 10.12.09 at 11:21 pm

Last week Kevin said I could share his comments in an email to me, and I’m just now getting to it:

Hi Kel:

The post looks good. You get lots of responses from your readers!

I don’t know what level of alcohol is “Safe” for kids. Maybe a physician could answer this? I do know that most of the home-made sodas out there tend to end up around 0.5% alcohol from the carbonation/fermentation process. I’ve always wondered why some places will card you for non-alcoholic beer. I think it may just be because the label says “Beer” and everyone knows you need to be 21 to buy beer.

A couple of comments on your readers responses, if you don’t mind:

The lady who worried that we were getting rid of alcohol by heating the soda before the last spec grav reading. This is a good point and I think you answered it well (see, you are a chemist). I was actually only heating it to force out much of the carbonation. It never reached boiling and was warm for only a short time. I didn’t mention that I was also shaking it, which helps remove carbonation, but can make a bit of a mess if you’re not careful.

One reader commented that she left the kefir out on the counter for a couple of days (not bottled) because this removed some of the sweetness. This definitely works, but the sugar you are removing is being converted to alcohol by the yeast (you should see some bubbling during this process). So her final alcohol content may be higher than what you and I got.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Reply]

30

Jajie Bo 11.20.09 at 8:03 pm

Great experiment- I thank you for sharing!
I am definitely a water kefir addict- just reading this has made my mouth water!
As for the “shoulder relaxaton” phenomena, I’ve heard many different possible explanations- the most recent being something about the calming effects that kombucha and kefir have on the nervous system… whatever the reason, I’ll take it!
Thanks again for sharing! : )

[Reply]

31

Lauren 12.06.09 at 1:18 am

Hi thanks for the great info!
As for a great fermented drink for momma, something i am going to try is grape “champagne.” Apparently if you use 1 lemon per 500mL or half quart grape juice water kefir mixture, it should taste similar to champagne!

[Reply]

32

KitchenKop 12.06.09 at 12:29 pm

Lauren, oooohhh, be sure to come back and tell us how that comes out!

[Reply]

33

Tara McGinnis 02.24.10 at 10:40 pm

I’m the one who leaves the kefir to ferment on the counter for 72 hours. It definately does smell and taste more like alcohol but I never get that buzz like I do with beer, even when I drink it all day. I give it to my 4 year old with no problems.

[Reply]

Leave a Comment

You can use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Older post:

Newer post:

Clicky Web Analytics