“Why eating more whole grains could be detrimental to your health.”
The comments at part 1 of Lose your man boobs, your bagel butt and your wheat belly got very interesting, especially when Dr. Davis jumped in to clarify some of the questions that were being asked there. He's agreed to do the same after today's Q & A post, to clear up anything more you're wondering about. Pretty cool, huh?! (He won't be able to do that indefinitely, though, so just be aware in case you visit this post later.)
Before we begin the questions and answers with Dr. Davis, in case you just want to buy the book, you can do that here: “Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health“.
WHEAT BELLY Q & A between Kelly the Kitchen Kop & Dr. William Davis:
1. Kelly: We've all heard the ‘politically correct' mantra on eating low-fat and ‘fiber-rich whole grains.' Can you tell us what happens to our bodies when we eat like that?
WD: Low-fat unavoidably means high-carbohydrate. Reduce carbohydrate intake from, say, 40-50% to 20-30% or even lower, and the gap in calories is nearly always filled by carbohydrates. Health conscious people have been advised by “official” agencies like the USDA and Surgeon General’s office to fill this gap with consumption of “fiber-rich whole grains,” which for all practical purposes means foods made of wheat. Fiber intake does indeed increase over that of the average American diet, but other phenomena begin to emerge: weight gain, specifically deep visceral fat in the abdomen (what I call “wheat belly”); increased blood sugar, pre-diabetes, and diabetes; cholesterol measures associated with carbohydrate excess such as high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol, and the appearance of small LDL particles, an incredibly common pattern today that increases risk for heart disease.
In other words, the conventional advice to cut fat and “eat more healthy whole grains,” I believe, is not the solution to the obesity, diabetes, and health crisis for Americans—it is the cause.
2. Kelly: Can you address this: “But wheat and bread are in the Bible!”
Yes, indeed: Wheat and bread are mentioned repeatedly in the Bible. Wheat and bread are part of religious practice, such as taking the sacrament. Bread is often used in the Bible as metaphor for salvation. But that’s not what you are eating. Let me explain.
The wheat of the Bible is emmer, a 28-chromosome wild-growing plant that grew in the Middle East in the time of Moses; it was the wheat that the Jews took with them, unleavened, in their flight from Egypt. Some of the wheat may have been einkorn, an even genetically simpler plant with 14 chromosomes, the original wheat that grew wild and was harvested by hand.
The wheat you are sold today is a 42-chromosome plant. Its distant ancestor was a natural hybrid of emmer wheat and a wild grass. But even bigger changes occurred 50 years ago, when substantial investment by the U.S. government and other governments, universities, and foundations were made to generate high-yield variants of 42-chromosome wheat. And, from a genetic viewpoint, they succeeded . . . beyond their wildest dreams.
The high-yield, semi-dwarf wheat plant was the result, a 2-foot tall wheat plant, a couple feet shorter than the “amber waves of grain” we all remember as kids. Virtually all the wheat grown in the world today is the high-yield semi-dwarf variant, since yield-per-acre is around 10-fold greater than the wheat of 50 years ago. And it did indeed make a large contribution to helping solve world hunger.
But there was a big miscalculation made: The effect on humans changed. For one, the composition of the gluten protein changed, making it more likely to trigger inflammatory diseases like celiac disease and nervous system degeneration. The gliadin protein was changed, making it a more potent stimulant of appetite. And, I believe, it changed in other ways that have not yet been fully sorted out. I make this last statement because, having witnessed thousands of people remove wheat from the diet, the whole seems to be greater than the sum of the parts: the benefits of removing wheat are greater than what you’d predict by adding up each problem ingredient.
When people eliminate modern wheat from their diets, I witness incredible weight loss—typically a pound a day for the first ten days, then tapering to 20 pounds over the first month. I witness turnarounds in asthma, acid reflux, irritable bowel syndrome, leg swelling, diabetes, pre-diabetes, arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, and inflammatory bowel disease. I see improved mental clarity, mood, and deeper sleep. In short, I see lives transformed, often in dramatic ways, by doing nothing more than removing this modern, genetically-altered grain from the diet.
3. Kelly: You said in Jimmy's podcast that if someone found an old bag of flour from their Grandma's cabinet, while it wouldn't be ideal to consume, it would still be much better since it's not the same Frankenfood wheat that today's crop 
has become. Would you say the same thing about spelt, rye, millet, etc., are they at least better, especially for those of us with kids who may need to transition more slowly?
Provided you are not among those with extreme wheat/gluten intolerance (e.g., celiac disease), then these grains are indeed better, since they do not trigger appetite as much as modern wheat. They also lack the most dangerous “D” collection of genes that has been woven into the genetic code of modern wheat and has been the focus of most of the genetic manipulations made by geneticists.
Downside: They still trigger appetite, just not as sharply. They also raise blood sugar and trigger the formation of small LDL particles, the number one cause for heart disease in the U.S. They also (by way of the process of “glycation,” or glucose-modification of proteins) contribute to cataracts, arthritis, and hypertension. So better does not necessarily mean good.
Theoretically, this makes sense: Use these less harmful grains to taper yourself off modern wheat. However, a word of warning: I’ve watched people try to do this, but it somehow just prolongs the agony, kind of like tempting an alcoholic with a weak drink. Sure, it might be better, but there’s something overwhelming about the “pull” these grains exert on us, often leading us straight back in a path to wheat.
4. Kelly: I know that you recommend a wheat-free, low-carb/paleo-ish (+dairy) diet for everyone, so I'd love your opinion on which carbs are best. Would that list just include milk, fruits & vegetables? What about rice? (Obviously that list would be different for a diabetic who needs to be more careful about fruits, and starchy vegetables/rice.)
Let me first set the stage for where we all find ourselves, circa 2011: The majority of us are overweight; 70-80% are diabetic or pre-diabetic, the remainder close on the heels of pre-diabetic patterns. In other words, we’ve got a mess on our hands.
This is not just about weight loss and fitting into a size 2 bikini or trousers with a 32-inch waist. This is about undoing the metabolic mess that most of us harbor in our bodies, thanks to 1) the misguided advice to “eat more healthy whole grains,” with grains essentially meaning modern, semi-dwarf wheat, and 2) the proliferation of carbohydrates in the diet. The 50% of people expected to become diabetic in the coming few years will have, on average, 8 years less time to live on earth and/or a lifetime of multiple medications for diabetes and all the other diseases of carbohydrate excess. 20, 30, 40 years of excessive carbohydrate consumption leave us with damaged pancreatic beta cells, no longer able to keep up with the insulin demand we place on it. I liken this to making an 80-year old man hobbling along in a walker being asked to run a marathon: It ain’t gonna happen; he’ll collapse at the 100-feet mark and lose the race. But that’s the sort of unrealistic expectation we place on our pancreases.
So it’s not that carbohydrates are intrinsically bad. It’s that we’ve created a situation where most of us are no longer capable of processing carbohydrates due to the pancreatic damage we’ve done with years and years of carbohydrate overconsumption. Unless you don’t mind adding to the revenues of the drug industry, we’ve got to deal with this metabolically impaired situation we’re in.
We do this by limiting carbohydrate intake. Any carbohydrate, regardless of glycemic index, increases blood sugar into unhealthy ranges. This includes fruit, millet, and sorghum, i.e., carbohydrates that most people regard as healthy. Rice, likewise, lacks many of the undesirable features of wheat, but is still a carbohydrate.
So limiting carbohydrates becomes necessary in a modern world populated with diabetic and pre-diabetic people. How much to limit carbohydrates is best decided on an individual basis. For diabetics, for instance, who wish to either minimize blood sugar “highs” and/or become non-diabetic, I advise 30 grams or less per day of carbohydrate. (One medium-sized banana contains around 30 grams; that blows it for the entire day.) For pre-diabetic people, I restrict carbohydrates to 40 grams per day. For people without either, but have small LDL particles, high triglycerides, hemoglobin A1c of less than 5.6%, and desire to lose weight, I limit carbohydrates to 50 grams per day. Many people say this is restrictive for the last group, but I see so many people like this who develop heart disease (from provocation of small LDL particles) and develop other health problems due to patterns they are triggering but are not even aware of.
5. 
Kelly: My Wheat Belly book is on the way right now, so I couldn't check out your recipes except for what I found on your site. While I don't agree that unfermented soy should be included in a healthy diet (read more on soy dangers), I was excited to see that your recipes include eggs and butter. You also told me when I asked on your website that you do think we should eat animal foods and animal fats. (My addendum: only from non-conventionally raised animals!) Can you comment more on this?
Yes, I agree with your stand on these issues. First of all, Wheat Belly was not intended to be a diet book. It was intended to be an exposé of this incredibly destructive Frankengrain called wheat. But I recognized that a solution has to be offered after pointing out the problem.
In diet, I’ve chosen to pick our battles and focus on the biggest problem sources. I don’t believe that our diets have to be absolutely meticulous, 7 days a week. I just think we need to eat real, whole foods while avoiding the most destructive food sources. Obviously, wheat is at the top of my list, the worst of the worst. Next are carbohydrates like cornstarch, cornmeal, sugars, and oats, followed by other carbohydrate sources like millet, quinoa, beans, rice, and fruit. I agree that meats, whenever possible, should be humanely-raised, grass-fed, free-range, and not from factory farm-raised, warehoused chickens, cattle, and pigs. Soy, unfortunately, is changing due to 73% of it coming from genetically-modified sources and so represents an uncertainty in diet. I’m aware of the criticisms of soy, particularly non-fermented varieties, and I believe we should avoid the soy-as-processed-food-additive sort. One of the strategies I use in patients is to have everyone supplement with iodine, since iodine deficiency and even goiters are making a return, just like the early 20th century, since people are avoiding iodized salt; provided you are iodine-replete, the so-called goitrogenic, or thyroid-blocking action of soy, is eliminated. So I now tell people to use soy in only small quantities, preferably fermented forms, but do not allow it to dominate and, obviously, avoid it if soy allergy or sensitivities are present.
6. Kelly: You've said that wheat is very uniquely addictive, can you tell us more about that?
The gliadin protein of wheat is degraded to a class of polypeptides called exorphins that bind to morphine receptors in the brain. Wheat exorphins are responsible for appetite stimulation, as well as the behavioral outbursts in children with ADHD and autism, the paranoid delusions and auditory hallucinations in people with schizophrenia, and even trigger the manic phase of bipolar illness. Exorphins are also responsible for the withdrawal phenomenon that 30% of people experience when they stop consuming wheat, the mental “fog,” fatigue, physical exhaustion, and even depression that usually lasts several days. You have, in effect, an addictive relationship due to the appetite stimulation effect and the awful withdrawal that results with cessation.
The effects of wheat exorphins—addiction, appetite stimulation—can be blocked with morphine- or opiate-blocking drugs. In fact, a drug company is trying to exploit this situation and has made application to the FDA for naltrexone, an oral opiate blocker, for a weight loss indication. Naltrexone is already on the market for heroine addiction at high-dose. At low-dose, naltrexone does indeed result in 22 pounds of weight loss when taken for six months—but why? Why would an opiate-blocking drug result in weight loss when there is only one food that is degraded to opiates in the bloodstream: wheat?
7. Kelly: Even though you said that MANY health issues are improved or cured when taking wheat out of the diet, what might the reason be as to why this might NOT work for some? (Obviously removing sugar from the diet would be important, too, but what else could they try?)
Obviously, not all human illnesses are caused by exposure to wheat. And many conditions that are triggered by wheat can also be triggered by other factors. Rheumatoid arthritis, for instance, is not caused by wheat, but is substantially worsened by wheat; removing wheat usually allows someone with this condition less pain, better mobility, and reduced reliance on the nasty drugs used to treat it, but rarely does it lead to cure. By the way, the probable reason to account for any benefit is the removal of wheat lectins that increase intestinal permeability to foreign proteins that, in turn, promote inflammatory responses.
Likewise, inflammatory bowel diseases like ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s. I’ve seen nearly everybody improve—less diarrhea and cramps, less bleeding, reduced need for medication, also borne out in clinical trials—but I’ve also seen cure—complete relief with no medication required. Why the difference? It’s probably genetically-determined, relying on such factors as HLA DQ type, the genetic pattern that, to a large degree, determines the severity of inflammatory response to wheat gluten, glutenins, and gliadin. However, there are clearly factors outside of the known genetic markers, since I and others have seen severe, even life-threatening, wheat responses in people with all negative genetic and antibody markers.
There is plenty not known about this modern form of wheat created by geneticists, largely because they assumed all along that, no matter how extreme or bizarre the techniques used to generate new forms of the plant, it was always safe for human consumption. So we have no record of animal or human safety testing to document how, when, and why many of the varied adverse effects came about. It was just thrust into the market, sold to the public—no questions asked.
(Note from Kelly: I forgot to ask Dr. Davis if he's heard of the GAPS Diet. If you're struggling with a health issue, you really must learn more about GAPS. Removing grains from the diet is part of the healing protocol, but it goes even further than that.)
8. Kelly: Can you tell us the story you shared with Jimmy about your feelings on food substitutions that help us eliminate wheat from our diets, such as almond or coconut flour? (Apparently some say these are like ‘smoking candy cigarettes'.)
First of all, let me point out that gluten-free foods are not the answer. Most gluten-free foods, as currently produced by most food manufacturers, are absolute health disasters. Yes, they lack the gluten, gliadin, amylopectin A, lectins, and other unhealthy components of wheat, but gluten-free foods are nearly always made using rice starch, cornstarch, potato starch, or tapioca starch. These powdered forms of starch increase blood sugars to very high levels, higher than even wheat, trigger small LDL particles, and cause accumulation of visceral fat and thereby make us diabetic.
So we’ve got to be smarter than this. There are healthier ingredients to use in making your own wheat- and gluten-free but limited carbohydrate recipes. I like ground almonds, pecans, walnuts, hazelnut, and sunflower seed; coconut flour; and ground flaxseed to create my own breads, scones, and cookies. Anyone who thinks they taste bad or think they are “smoking candy cigarettes” hasn’t tried my recipes. You will find my carrot cake recipe, for instance, every bit as delicious as the “real” thing, but with none of the undesirable unhealthy aftermath. I had mocha chocolate cupcakes (my own recipe) for breakfast today; they were filling and delicious.
9. Kelly: Those who eat a paleo-type diet may wonder why dairy is OK in your book? (Are you familiar with the benefits of raw milk, especially in comparison to conventional milk?)
I really have chosen to pick my battles. I recognize that we live in a world in which perfect choices are not always easy or possible. Children, for instance, may eat from a school cafeteria, eat at friends’ houses and sleepovers, while Mom or Dad may have a job that means having lots of meals in airports or restaurants where a full menu is not available. Having advised a wheat-free, low-carbohydrate diet in thousands of people, while not imposing the strict Paleo-like limitations of no dairy, no nuts, no beans, has worked extremely well at a practical level.
With regards to dairy, I have limited concerns about the insulinotrophic action of the polypeptides in the whey fraction. As you know, I worry about the number of diabetics, pre-diabetics, and pre-pre-diabetics nationwide who have stressed their pancreases to unreasonable degrees. Dairy products have the peculiar effect of tripling insulin output from the pancreas, an effect many nutritionists regard as positive because it reduces the blood sugar effects of carbohydrates, but I view as negative because we do not need to further challenge our exhausted pancreases. So I advocate a limited exposure to dairy because of this effect, but I don’t think it’s so bad that we should absolutely eliminate it. Cheese, in particular, has many healthy components, such as vitamin K2, that really are important for health (reversal of osteoporosis and possibly heart disease and, no, it’s not the calcium that’s good for bones).
If I had complete trust in my dairy producer and was confident of clean conditions, then raw milk can be a great option, though with many of the same insulinotrophic limitations, since it, too, has the whey fraction of proteins in it. Personally, it makes me kind of nervous; I liken it to playing a slot machine at the casino where the odds of winning are 999 to 1, but if you lose they shoot you: great odds, but the price of losing is pretty awful.
(Another note from Kelly: here's my post on finding clean, raw milk.)
10. Kelly: My Mom and 2 sisters have type II diabetes. I'm especially interested in the cases you've seen where people can go off diabetes drugs and the disease is reversed. Besides giving up wheat, what else do you suggest they do as far as their diet and exercise is concerned?
I have personally been cured of diabetes, along with many patients and online followers of my program. Elimination of wheat is the crucial first step, both to avoid its blood sugar-increasing effect as well as its appetite-stimulating gliadin effect.
Next, strictly limiting carbohydrates becomes necessary. Because diabetes is, by definition, a condition of high blood sugars, near-total elimination of carbohydrates becomes necessary to minimize or totally stop blood sugar rises. This means less than 30 grams (“net” carbs, or total carbohydrates minus fiber) per day. Exercise, including strength training, vitamin D supplementation, and magnesium supplementation are very important, also, in reversing diabetes. Having ideal thyroid function is important, given the frequency of thyroid dysfunction in modern people due to iodine deficiency and exposure to thyroid-blocking organochemicals.
People taking drugs like glipizide, glyburide, and glimepiride will have to be especially careful to avoid hypoglycemic episodes; as someone becomes less diabetic or non-diabetic but still takes these medications, hypoglycemia can result. This is therefore best undertaken under the supervision of an interested and knowledgeable healthcare provider. The sad truth is that 99% of my colleagues have no interest nor experience in reversing diabetes, so you may have to seek out a naturopath or other provider more willing to work with you.
11. Kelly: In your podcast with Jimmy you said that you've seen the crippled jog, and colon removal surgeries get canceled. What are other conditions have you seen improved or healed when people give up wheat?
The list is varied and long. It includes inflammatory diseases like rheumatoid arthritis; multiple skin conditions including dermatitis herpetiformis, all varieties of rashes and blemishes, and acne; acid reflux and symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome are relieved in the majority; arthritis, particularly in the hands and wrists, often disappears completely, as does stiffness; leg edema and water retention improves or goes away entirely; better mood, less anxiety, and deeper sleep are very common; asthma and sinus infections and sinus congestion improve, sometimes disappear; allergies improve. Inflammatory bowel diseases like ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s are nearly always improved, often leading to reduced reliance on medication.
When the visceral fat of the “wheat belly” are lost, the unhealthy consequences of it are reversed: blood sugars drop, insulin sensitivity improves, inflammatory markers improve, estrogen levels drop, prolactin levels drop in men (reducing breast size), triglycerides drop (since visceral fat is a repository for circulating triglycerides), HDL (“good”) increases, small LDL particles (really “bad”) drop. Arthritis, in particular, improves out of proportion to the weight lost.
Among some interesting, though preliminary, observations: improved erectile function in males and reduced premenstrual syndrome symptoms in females. A recent lesson that I’ve learned is, to my great surprise, improved kidney function in people with mild impairment due to longstanding diabetes and hypertension.
But the most consistent observation of all with wheat elimination after weight loss is ‘I just feel better.” I think that alone counts for a lot.
Now ask YOUR follow up questions in the comments below. 🙂
THANK YOU DR. DAVIS!
- Find low-carb/grain-free recipes and ideas
- Grain Free Meal Plans!
- Where to buy it: “Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health“.
Rhonda C says
I know I’m late in responding to this, but I just want to add that I have been a diabetic for over 10 years and have treated the condition with both pills and insulin, with neither one doing a great job of controlling the issue. About 6 months ago I started to half-heartedly follow a grain free diet, and 1 month ago I got serious about it. I eat no grains in any form whatsoever, no refined sugar (just a tiny bit of honey every now and then) and very little/no fruit or vegetable starch. Since then, I’ve been able to cut both my insulin dose and pill dose in HALF and I’m working toward (hopefully) becoming totally medication-free.
I do not ever find the meals to be lacking. I totally enjoy the foods we do eat and I think they’re MUCH more satisfying than what we were eating before this. Just this morning I had an omelet that was filled/topped with fresh tomatoes, basil, and mozzarella cheese. The kids had a peanut butter custard sweetened with honey and served with apple slices, SOOO much healthier and filling than Peanut Butter Cap’n Crunch, and they’re STILL raving over it.
This isn’t just about me anymore; I do not want my children to have an unhealthy head start in life. I do not want my husband to have weight issues (he’s losing his man boobs!) and high cholesterol (his doctor told him to drop the grains!) I want THEM to have ME around for many, many more years.
Thank you, Dr. Davis and Kelly!
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
I LOVE IT!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing your story Rhonda, and how about that peanut butter custard recipe? 🙂
Rhonda C says
No problem!
We made this dairy-free by using coconut milk.
1/4 c. smooth peanut (or favorite nut) butter
2 Tbsp. honey
3 eggs
1 1/2 c. milk
Preheat oven to 350°. Put all ingredients in a blender and blend until well mixed. Pour custard into 4 – 6 greased custard ramekins or a greased pie plate. Place the dish(es) into a bigger pan and fill with water until 1/2 way up the sides of the dish.
Bake for 40 minutes or until custard is set and a knife inserted 1 inch from the edge comes out clean. Remove the dish(es) and chill before serving.
My kids loved this warm (they couldn’t wait any longer because it smelled so good) and they ate it with apple slices.
Mike says
A few blueberries…half a banana…what’s your take on fruit?
KitchenKop says
Hi Mike,
I can’t speak for Dr. Davis, but my take on this is that it depends on the person. If you have no blood sugar or weight issues, fruit is great. Otherwise you’d have to watch it and see how you do after eating some.
Kelly
Katie @ Kitchen Stewardship says
I’ve been looking into gluten for a while now because my husband has Crohn’s, and cutting gluten eradicated his symptoms within 2 days last fall. However, he doesn’t always have symptoms every time he has gluten, so he keeps himself to a “low-gluten” diet. I wonder if every time he consumes gluten, he’s shortening his life, or if one can “cheat” and not lose the battle. Does it have to be all or nothing for everyone like it does for a celiac, for example? Do you ever eat wheat, and if you do, is it a temporary or major setback?
Thanks!
Katie Kimball
KitchenKop says
Katie, I’ll email this ? to Dr. Davis and get back with you. 🙂
KitchenKop says
Katie, here is Dr. Davis’ reply:
“I would urge your husband–URGE!– to be absolutely, meticulously, undeniably, 110% wheat- and gluten-free.
As you likely already know, your husband is already at risk for intestinal cancer and other cancers just due to having Crohn’s. The one thing he is able to readily influence, and probably substantially reduce potential for cancer, is to remove this incredible cancer-causing agent called wheat. Even if he doesn’t have a full-blown flareup with a small indulgence, many phenomena occur beneath the surface and that’s not good.
It’s important to remind your husband that there is an entire world of healthy foods that have nothing to do with wheat or gluten.”
Melody Joy says
We have discovered a gluten sensitivity in my husband, who has had a marked improvement in digestive health and lost a significant amount of weight sincw cutting out gluten-bearing foods. We use gf “replacement” foods only very rarely, namely when eating w/others. On my side of the family, though, are many people who lost significant amounts of weight – and sustained the loss for years – when they switched to freshly milled whole wheat. Would you attribute this difference namely to body type? We have diabetes on both sides of the family, but both wheat containing and wheat free diets seem to be stabilizing blood sugar and reducing weight depending on the person.
chuck says
This is only speculation on my part. I wonder if the people who “switched to freshly milled whole wheat” ended up eating much less wheat as a result of only eating wheat in that form. Maybe you could tell us more about their diets.
Melody Joy says
They eat something baked with freshly milled wheat at every meal, even switching all cakes and cookies over. They pretty much never eat anything with commercial flour in it (going as far as to nickname it death bread). They were the ones who converted me to freshly milled wheat, but my real food experience introduced me to sprouting and soaking, NONE of my family that eat the milled wheat soak or sprout. My sil’s sister uses organic wheat, but my bro & sil, her parents, and her other sister all use regular. Seriously every day they have plenty of wheat. Plenty of other good stuff, too (meat, fruits, veggies, dairy); but definitely a good bit of wheat.
REB says
I can attest to the health impacts of wheat. Some years ago, I realized I always felt irritable. Being someone with many allergies (including to raw wheat flour), I decided to experiment by going off wheat entirely, since that was a daily component of my diet. The result was that my mood improved greatly, and as a bonus I had far fewer headaches. Nowadays I strive to eat a low-carb, organic diet, also avoiding food dyes and preservatives. The allergies (to pretty much all raw foods) complicate things, but I do know that I feel much better!
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Reb–
I experienced the emotional, agitated effects from wheat, too.
While some of the effects likely derive from the blood sugar consequences of wheat consumption, there is more to it. I suspect this is yet another of the peculiar mind effects of the gliadin protein in wheat.
Christine says
Dr. Davis,
So is it safe to assume then,
1. That even if I buy organic wheat berries, that wheat is not safe and has been modified somewhere along the way?
2. Are there any gluten free grains that are safe to consume, organic and prepared at home (soaked, sprouted, fermented, etc.)?
Or, is it just best to avoid all grains, organic or otherwise?
Thank you!
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Christine–
Unfortunately, wheat berries contain everything unique to the modern semi-dwarf wheat plant, i.e., all that is bad. There is nothing especially healthy about the “berry,” i.e., the wheat kernel.
Non-wheat, non-gluten grains, such as quinoa, amaranth, and buckwheat lack the appetite-stimulating effects of gliadin, the immune-stimulating effects of gluten, and have less destructive forms of lectin (further reduced if you soak). So these grains lack many of the adverse effects of wheat. The only downside: carbohydrate effects. People who are carb-sensitive (meaning over 80% of Americans) need to be careful, else high blood sugars, pre-diabetic insulin resistance, and the process of glycation can kick in.
Marste says
Someone earlier asked about the situation where the person cannot afford to lose much weight, say no more than 5 lbs., but I didn’t see an answer. This is my husband’s situation so I am interested in hearing Dr. Davis’s suggestions about how to avoid losing weight on his diet.
Dr. William Davis says
Easy, Marste: Eat more.
That is, eat more vegetables, use healthy oils like olive and coconut more liberally, eat more cheese, raw nuts and seeds, avocados. If you eat meat, eat more (free-range/pasture-fed, etc.). Eat more eggs. In other words, there is no calorie restriction here.
That said, please note that you might end up skinnier than you think you should be. What I’m finding to be very common is that our perceptions of ideal weight have changed, since everyone else around is so overweight. Think of it this way: If it were 1951, would your weight be appropriate? (To remind yourself, watch an old movie to see how slender people were. Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed look positively bone-thin by today’s standards, but that’s what was normal.)
Liz Ferguson says
Well, I ordered the book (I clicked through from your site, Kelly). I have to say though that I am skeptical. I have eliminated wheat for different periods of time, the longest being 3.5 weeks, and never lost a pound or felt better. Perhaps I did not stay off it long enough. I eat very low carb, but I have not counted grams. My carbs come from vegetables and the ocassional fruit. I eat very healthy, good fats, good quality proteins, I exercise regularly, but since my thyroid went hypo a few years back, I cannot seem to lose my belly. I stopped the wheat again earlier this week — I marked it on the calendar and my goal is to give it 6 full weeks.
chuck says
Liz:
Sounds like you do eat a healthy diet. In my opinion, replacing wheat calories with whole meat and plant calories gives someone a much more nutrient dense diet. Wheat cannot hold a candle to meats and veggies when it comes to vitamin and mineral content per calorie.
I’d be interested in hearing your feedback after you read the book.
KitchenKop says
Yes, keep us posted, Liz!
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Liz–
In your case, the limiting factor that keeps you from losing weight, even despite eliminating the most weight-promoting food (wheat), is likely to be deficient T3 thyroid hormone.
Low or inadequate T3 levels are the rule, not the exception, in people who take levothyroxine or Synthroid as their thyroid replacement, which is the T4 thyroid hormone. The endocrinologists claim that we all automatically convert T4 to T3. Not true. They have not been following the recent toxicology literature that shows many people are being exposed to organochemicals that block the activity of the 5′-deiodinase enzyme that converts T4 to T3.
So it means you can take all the T4 in the world, but you will remain hypothyroid: can’t lose weight, feel tired, cold hands and feet, thin hair, loss of outer third of eyebrows, constipation. The solution: Get yourself some T3. The toughest part of this, unfortunately, is finding a healthcare provider who has bothered to obtain the information and experience to do so. Sadly, most of my colleagues, especially the endocrinologists who often treat thyroid, have had their education provided by the pharmaceutical industry and specifically by the representatives of Synthroid. They therefore will not help you with T3.
For a full discussion of this somewhat complex topic, take a look at stopthethyroidmadness.com, Janie Bowthorpe’s very excellent website.
Jenni says
I just switched from Armour to Synthroid a few months ago. I liked armour in the first part of the day, but in the evenings I was very cold. The T3 didn’t last long enough in my body. Yeah, I could have tried dividing the dose, and I did that, but the evenings were still difficult. My new doctor (a regular ol’ endocrinologist) says you gotta give the person *enough* T4 medication… his complaint with other doctors prescribing this medication is that they often don’t want to push the TSH down too low. I can vouch for that, as my primary care doc gave me 25 mcg and declared it good enough because my T4 was simply “in range.” It was not at all good enough! My new doc is not afraid of that, and as we get my dose closer and closer to “right,” I’m beginning to feel better and better. We’re still trying out this new dose and I’m not symptom-free yet, but I’m getting much closer.
I did notice that he does not test for T3, but I plan to ask him to do that at my next visit. If we get my T4 maxed out and I still have symptoms, he said he is willing to supplement with T3.
Annabelle says
Yes! It’s true about the skin conditions disappearing… I went off wheat, til I got to the occasional bowl of oatmeal (which is now OUT by the way) and a banana with coconut oil/butter, but even that is like, not all the time…all signs of acne on my skin has improved to almost 100% clear! I mean, within days! It’s for real, this is true. 🙂 There was a period of eating no grains…and yes my skin got clearer and clearer, and then I ate a couple cookies, and bam, right back to where I started before…yeah it’s that dramatic! Haha, learned my lesson!
Dr. William Davis says
That’s great, Annabelle!
Most of us will have to learn the hard way. I certainly did!
sue says
Very curious – I’ve been eating sprouted whole wheat – thinking this is so good for me. Which, is probably better than the average ‘wheat’ . . . . .. but now I think now….. NO wheat is better ?!
Dr. William Davis says
Yes, I believe that the absolute ideal is no wheat, especially since virtually all the wheat sold today is the semi-dwarf variant product of geneticists.
Commenter via Facebook says
I started back on grains and DEFINITELY GOT A WHEAT BELLY! Ive always called it the grain belly fat!
Joel says
Dr. Davis,
(This may be in the book, which I plan on reading)
What are your thoughts on consuming beers and liquors made with modern wheat/grain products. Aside from the carbohydrate content of such products, do they have the same adverse affects as consuming wheat in other forms? And, would consuming such products fit in with a “grain-free” lifestyle (my family has not made the switch)?
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Joel–
Yes, beer and liquors made from wheat can exert the same effects as baked wheat products, but they are not as flagrant a trigger. Complete avoidance only seems to be necessary in people with extreme gluten sensitivity.
I have seen people who reintroduce wheat as bread have violent reactions, while having a beer does not. I suspect it may be related to “dose,” i.e., the quantity of wheat proteins contained.
Joel says
Thank you for your response. I can’t wait to read your book. I do not believe I have a gluten sensitivity, but am interested in studying the benefits of going wheat/grain free to prevent diabetes from occurring in my family. I don’t think I could ever give up beer, though! 🙂
Commenter via Facebook says
I feel all wide eyed like the addicts on “Intervention” on A&E when they walk in the room and everyone is there to try to get them to go to treatment. lol
Dr. William Davis says
My name is John and I am a wheataholic.
Commenter via Facebook says
Man that sucks cause I’m a corn fed woman.I love grain of all kinds.
Real Food RD says
I’m excited to finally have a wheat free resource from a credible source- hope the book doesn’t disappoint. I’ve seen too many books that contain good information, but I can’t recommend because they also contain misinformation about gluten and celiac disease and the whole complex issue.
My family loves being wheat free, and it does self-reinforce because eating bread products create so many undesirable side effects. However, I still find the concept of going wheat free or even doing a trial period to be a hard sell to others. How do you get your patients on board in what I imagine is a pretty short amount of time that you have to visit with them? Also, you are a cardiologist, right? How do you get beyond the fear of fat with patients who are probably very familiar with the standard AHA recommendations? Are you ever concerned that patients will cherry-pick what they like and end up just lowering their wheat and carbs a little while raising their fat quite a bit and end up making their dietary situation worse?
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Real–
As you know, these humans are a mixed bag: some highly-motivated, some moderately motivated, some not motivated at all. From my perspective, when people see the extravagant effects of wheat consumption on creating small LDL particles (the most prevalent cause of heart disease today), followed by the dramatic drop that results with wheat elimination, most recognize pretty quick that this thing has undesirable health effects.
HbA1c is also a real motivator. Most people are terrified of diabetes and having a HbA1c of, say 6.1% (i.e., approaching diabetic range) is sufficient to motivate most people.
Some are just motivated by the prospect of rapid and dramatic weight loss.
The majority of people I see have been so soured by the conventional advice to cut fat and take statins that they actually WELCOME a novel approach–especially one that works!
damaged justice says
Perhaps some Facebookers might want to point out some “grain facts”, respectfully and without spam or libel:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/gowiththegrain/house-rules/10150290638355796
Apparently, they’re feeling the heat as their non-science goes up in smoke.
Bethany says
I was under the impression from some other WAPF blogs that spelt and kamut were more acceptable grains due to the fact that they have not been genetically modfied in any way. I personally am off all grains, but I do feed soaked spelt baked goods to my 2 year old son.
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Bethany–
Better . . . but not necessarily good.
Spelt and kamut have the AB genomes and lack the most destructive and modern D genome characteristic of modern semi-dwarf wheat. But they still have genes that code for gliadin, gluten, lectins, and the other harmful components of wheat.
BeccaOH says
I agree that it was so nice of Dr. Davis to do this interview, and I agree that messing with nature comes back to bite us. I know that panicked feeling that comes with the idea of throwing out a whole food group like grains. Grains are linked to our comfort foods like Grandma’s homemade yeast rolls and Mom’s chicken noodle soup. But the more I witness my own mother’s health struggles with type 2 diabetes I feel that I can find other ways to remember the past and find comfort than in the foods that lead to illness and early death. Thank you for leading a courageous venture.
damaged justice says
The idea of “food groups” is a completely arbitrary notion that was specifically invented to help subsidize and sell more of “the displacing foods of modern commerce”, as Weston Price termed them — grains, grain-based and -‘”enhanced” products (nearly every packaged food has a subsidized grain/legume in it, in the form of wheat, corn or soy) as well as artificial industrial oils invented in the last century that are derived from those same plants, which we are encouraged to use to replace natural, healthy fats which humanity has thrived on for thousands if not millions of years.
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Becca-
Yes, it is difficult to make light of an epidemic of diabetes larger than ever before witnessed in human history.
I saw two patients today who reversed their diabetes–two patients in one day. Only a modest start, but the numbers will grow. None eat wheat.
chuck says
I have to say this is very generous of Dr. Davis to do. He gave for free, many of the key bullet points from his book. I still think people should read this book. It is very eye opening.
Dr. William Davis says
Thanks, Chuck.
I feel the most important thing here is the message.
Helen says
but….Splenda of all things. If we are not going to use genetically altered wheat in our diets, why use a sugar substitute made in a lab, processed with chlorine?
chuck says
Helen:
While the science and research behind the issues Dr. Davis discusses regarding wheat are very solid, I have to agree with you regarding Splenda. Dr. Davis is very fearful regarding elevated blood sugars and I suppose that is why he advocates Splenda.
Me personally, I lean toward a whole, real food diet and avoid that crap. By eliminating wheat, hfcs, and sugar I am able to keep my blood sugar consistently low. I do have rice on occasion but have it with fat to help blunt the blood sugar spike.
In the end, I have yet to read a book I 100% agree with.
KitchenKop says
I’m also hoping that someday Dr. Davis will revise his recipes to take out any fake sugars, soy, or the less-fat cream cheese. There aren’t very many recipes with those, though, most are full of lots of real food. 🙂
Teresa says
I looked at Dr. Davis’s Book at the bookstore the other day and did not buy it because he used splenda in some of his recipes. That totally turned me off. Of course, I could switch out for stevia but I would think that he would not use an ingredient that could cause other health problems. He makes wraps with flaxseeds.. not so sure about using alot of them.. Also, although I firmly believe in using healthy fats now, I lost alot of weight on lowfat(mostly lean protein) and lost my belly. I did cut out butter and finally became a “lowfat fanatic”. Not healthy at all. I have gone to eating healthy coconut oil, butter etc and can not use weight so I guess i will try cutting out wheat, but rice and all carbs, I don’t know about. Extreme to me is not good.. Can we always eat this way in this world?
damaged justice says
“Extreme” is like “low-carb”, meaningless without context. “Carbs” does not mean “grains”. If you don’t like Davis’s recipes, you can modify them to suit your needs, or use one of the many increasingly popular resources for grain-free cooking. It doesn’t change the validity of the science he presents.
Without government subsidies (read: forced redistribution of wealth), grains would not be artificlally cheap, and their true cost would be revealed. There is more than enough real food in the world for everyone even at current population levels. The problem has never been production (one of the many reasons Norman Borlaug’s misguided efforts were not necessary in the first place), but distribution — poverty and starvation are most rampant in countries with the most political control over food. As Kissinger said: “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” Why else would the state’s enforcers be so desperate to convince us we have no right to eat what we choose?
https://www.foodrenegade.com/your-choice-of-food-fundamental-right/
alain says
All those suggested guidelines should not be interpreted as the common and idealistic so called diet (diets)..and its restrictions .
Number one, every body has a different metabolism ,and what could be bad for one person,can be desastreous for another.
Number two, if you have a well balanced diet ,such as green ,yello, red vegetables and fruits, and a moderate consumption of wheat ,meat , and other animals products , I am convince than anyone should be able to find the ‘ideal’ intake of foods needed for the day.
Number three and this is my golden rule ..Burn what you eat ..you can have a 2000 calories meal ,or even 5000 calories, the key is to burn as much of calories that you have added to your metabolism.
I have a great friend that is a ballerina, (5’5 125 lbs) she would eat 3 times more food that I (6’1 195 lbs)..BUT she exercise at least 4 to 5 hours a day ..so here is the simple logic that I believe in..DO NOT try to lose some weight with crazy and obsessive diets that for the most of us, will not work .
Lately ,there is a big thing going on about “coconut oil” and coconut products … Coconut oil has the Highest saturated fat that you can find in anyone’s kitchen ,and by far the most umpleasant to cook with .
The key for a good heath in simple word ,is “MODERATION”>
Peggy says
30?! 30 grams?! Oh my. I barely make it through the day on 100 grams of carbs and that’s with immense effort! A single baked sweet potato has 37, and beets have 10…how on earth does one keep to 30 grams? Just give up veggies entirely? What a miserable way to live!!
chuck says
i believe 30 grams was the recommendation for someone with diabetes. i’d say that is a much better way to live than the alternative of what living with diabetes does to people.
Magda says
You can live on fewer carbohydrates. GAPS is proof. You need to retrain your body to live off fat rather than carbs. Some that go into GAPS from a SAD type diet experience light-headedness and dizziness as their bodies adjust. There are still carbs in meat, veggies, fruit, nuts, etc. just fewer. As you consume more meat, fat, etc. you get energy from that vs carbs.
Heidi says
When I was doing full GAPS for a number of months (mostly in solidarity with my daughter – I had no significant issues to address), I lost so much weight (already on the thin side) that my cycle stopped, and I wasn’t able to put the weight back on (& restart my cycle) until I went off GAPS and started eating more starch. I never really experienced the “carb flu” when I stopped eating starches on GAPS, but I definitely couldn’t afford the weight I lost, so I *definitely* have the same red flag (but even redder!) go up about this diet. I have no problem recommending GAPS for those who need to address GAPS issues – I do have a problem with such a very low-carb blanket recommendation from Dr. Davis.
damaged justice says
“low carb” is meaningless without context. Compared to what?
chuck says
Heidi:
I am not super familiar with the GAPS protocol. Does it restrict the amount of carbs you can eat in a day? How many calories do you feel you ate during your GAPS experiment? Were you getting enough food?
Heidi says
GAPS doesn’t restrict carbs, per se – it’s based on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but GAPS also restricts dairy. No grains, potatoes, or sweet potatoes; limited fruit; limited legumes (lentils & white beans). From the “Breaking the Vicious Cycle” website (SCD): “Complex carbohydrates that are not easily digested feed harmful bacteria in our intestines causing them to overgrow producing by products and inflaming the intestine wall. The diet works by starving out these bacteria and restoring the balance of bacteria in our gut.” Meat, eggs, natural fats, nuts, and vegetables are not limited.
Calorie-wise, I’m fairly sure I ate an amount comparable to what I eat when I add starch. I ate tons of butternut squash (a higher-carb vegetable) mixed with eggs and butter (butter is permitted on the full GAPS diet); my toddler daughter and I would share five eggs with grated apple scrambled in butter for breakfast. Now (pregnant!), I eat two eggs with one slice of toast and butter for breakfast. Plenty of meat, eggs, good animal fats, bone broth, butter, coconut oil, nut butters, avocado. I’d had vicious blood-sugar swings prior to starting GAPS, and experienced my blood sugar stabilize while I did it (& it’s remained stable since).
kim says
30 grams of NET carbs…carbs minus fiber. So, most vegetables will have a MUCH lower net carb count than you think.
Dr. William Davis says
It’s not really all that miserable, Peggy. And keep in mind that, should someone develop diabetes, we are not talking about a benign disease. Diabetes ravages your health and cuts, on average, 8 years off your life, with the last filled with illness, hospitalizations, and drugs.
In my mind, using diet to minimize, even cure, diabetes or advanced pre-diabetes is small price to pay to spend an additional 8 years on earth enjoying a healthy, diabetes-free life with your family.
Peggy says
There was an old comedian that said, “People who don’t smoke and drink live years longer than those who do. Of course, those are years you can’t smoke or drink, too.” I don’t have a problem with cigarettes or alcohol, thank goodness! But I’ve done the “low carb” diet for two years, limiting my carbs to 100 grams a day. My body never adjusted, the cravings never went away, I was hungry all the time and the 30 pounds I lost in the first four months came back with 15 friends during the second year. As part of this diet, I didn’t have any grain intake because it was too “costly” in the carb count and I’d rather enjoy veggies than bread.
I guess I’m fortunate to not be diabetic because quite frankly, I’d rather eat a satisfying, delicious diet and enjoy my life and meals than live 8 years longer being constantly hungry and feeling lousy.
Alison says
I have my heart set on some form of sourdough bread when I get off the GAPS diet. Is rye appropriate? what type of grain would be best consumed? Is there any form of wheat nowadays that we can get and eat in small quantities that won’t have these damaging effects?
Dr. William Davis says
This is one of the great unanswered questions, Alison, since there are a real lack of studies using these ancient grains. My suspicion is that, of all wheat’s ancestors, einkorn is the most benign.
Rye is, for all practical purposes, wheat, so I don’t believe that it is that much better. Rye and wheat have hybridized and crossbred so many times, both naturally and by human design, that there marked overlap in the genetics of the two.
Laura G. says
Is there an organic ancient wheat berry variety available or would kamut be a better substitute? I do grind my own flour with a nutrimill and was wondering what I can use in it on the occasions where we prepare baked goods.
Dr. William Davis says
Hi, Laura–
I’ve not heard of wheat berries from ancient grains specifically. However, a resource you might want to check into is http://www.growseed.org, the website for the Heritage Wheat Foundation. Eli Rogosa runs this small 10-acre organic farm where she grows these ancient grains brought to Massachusetts from the Middle East. If there’s anybody with them, it’s Eli.
I’d be particularly interested, should you give it a try, in your blood sugar experience (should you check this).
Diane says
I know I’m a couple of months late to this but just now got around reading the comments. Thank you so much for the link to the HWF! I’ve been looking for a good seed source so I can trial some ancient wheat in 2012’s growing season.
Jen says
You can buy Einkorn wheat berries here: https://www.einkorn.com/where-to-buy-einkorn/
You can also buy pasta here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_i_0?rh=k%3Aeinkorn%2Ci%3Agrocery&keywords=einkorn&ie=UTF8&qid=1316586263
Stanley Fishman says
Great post, Kelly, I learned a lot from this . We arrogant humans should not be tampering with the perfection of nature.