Today please welcome an anonymous guest poster…
When our son was a baby I read all the popular parenting books and magazines and I blindly followed whatever advice his doctor said would benefit his health. When I read that babies need extra fluoride so they’d have nice strong teeth, I made myself a note to ask his doctor about it at his next well-baby check. (Where I also dutifully had him get all the shots they recommended.) Sure enough, I was told to get some infant fluoride drops that I could put right into his bottle, which I did every day as directed, adding this to his formula that was mixed with fluoridated water, too, of course.
I shutter to think about this now.
Fast forward a few years to when I learned more about the power of real food, and I learned to question everything. I started wondering about those white spots on his teeth. Then I read articles like this one from a dentist:
There is also a known condition called fluorosis (a discoloration on the teeth caused by too much fluoride), which occurs when a child gets too much fluoride when teeth are developing. Well, if there is fluoride in the water, wouldn't you come to the conclusion that this could contribute to “too much fluoride?” I would. Even more disturbing, there was a study done in China on children with fluorosis, and the findings were that children with the affliction had, in overall terms, lower IQ scores. These findings were echoed in an American study that came to the same findings using animals: The study concluded that fluoride would accumulate in specific areas of the brain, which then affected the ability to learn. This does not constitute irrefutable proof, but it does make one think.” (Read the rest of Mouth Health: Fluoridated Water, Good or Bad?)
Thankfully the white spots on his teeth are not too noticeable, but you can see them for sure.
And it’s not just that, he also used to really struggle in school, so it does make you think. As his Mom it makes me cry. (Although it also could have been the junk I fed him too often: fast food, sugarbomb cereals, etc.)
On one hand I want to scream, knowing that me, his Mom caused this because I blindly followed whatever “they” said we should put in his bottle. On the other hand I want to go find that doctor and throttle him for blindly believing whatever he must have read somewhere along the line.
Now that I know better, he hasn’t drank fluoridated water or used fluoride toothpaste in years (check out this easy and inexpensive DIY toothpaste), and school got a little easier as he got older. He eats a lot of healthy animal fats, pastured meats, mostly soaked or fermented bread, and he takes cod liver oil, although irregularly. He does still have one or two soda pops a month at friends’ or a restaurant, and other junk now and then that he tries to get his hands on, but overall a better diet than most teens.
I’m hopeful that he’ll continue to eat fairly well even through college, and that beyond the gazillion health benefits of doing so, that it might eventually take care of the white spots on his teeth, too.
But I don't know if I'll ever get over the mom-guilt. 🙁
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Sheena Golish says
35 years ago my dentist and I were both yelled at by my furious mother, because his new hygienist put fluoride on my teeth. It’s inconceivable how it’s still being pushed.
Samantha Salyer Jacokes says
I would be so mad. Our former pediatric dental assistant “accidentally ” applied fluoride to one of my kids. I was pissed. We don’t go there anymore.
Amanda Martin says
They seriously gave me a bottle of flouride to add to my sons water when he as six months old. This was eight years ago.
Shannon A. Shell says
A permission slip came home with my girls this week for weekly fluoride treatments in elementary school. Of course I refused in red.
Paige Robertson Leger says
What?!?!?! At school??? That’s a huge step in the wrong direction!
Samantha Salyer Jacokes says
Our middle school had a mobile dentist thing last week so the kids could sign up for a cleaning and fluoride. That form went in the garbage.
Megan Christian Cowan says
Why the hell would anyone need WEEKLY fluoride treatments??
Ros MacIsaac says
Our dentist office has tried to sneak in their fluoride treatments KNOWING I am against them. I go with my kids every single time and sit right next to them and they know I am against it, They want to give prescriptions to get flouride pills to give them!
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Ros MacIsaac — time for a new dentist?!
Ros MacIsaac says
They are all the same. Mamma bear keeps a tight ship….lol They don’t get aay with all their requested xrays either.
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Ros MacIsaac — I love our dentist. He DOES all the regular stuff (FL treatments, x-rays), but knows I don’t want it and is very cool about it.
There are two issues at hand here that are leading to confusion:
Topical versus systemically administered fluoride.
Topical flouride either at the dentist or with the daily use of FL toothpaste is not harmful. It is actually beneficial to prevent cavities as it strengthens teeth, especially cavity prone teeth such as those seen in fluorosis.
What happened to your son is that an excess of fluoride was given systematically and during the formation of his permanent teeth. If more fluoride was given systematically during the process of teeth formation then yes even more damage could have been done. The formation of his teeth however is complete.
Due to the fluorosis these teeth are weak and they are at higher risk of developing cavities than normal teeth. Therefore they will definitely benefit from the application of topical fluoride at the dentist and the the daily use of a fluoridated toothpaste. The topical fluoride will strengthen the teeth, will lead to remineralization and actually act as a batericidal for cavitiy causing bacteria in the mouth.
This is a simple explanation to a great misconception about the beneficial effects of topical fluoride, but I hope it sheds some light.
@Auro- I have read and reread your comment, and I’m sorry, but what you say makes no sense AND it seems contradictory. In one paragraph you say that fluorosis is a result of systemic fluoride intake, then you go onto explain to repair those (fluoride) damaged teeth, that fluoride should continue to be used topically to strengthen the teeth. Huh?
That’s like saying the arsenic I ingested is giving me a tummy ache, so the doctor told me to have more to strengthen my tummy.
I’m no scientist, but I’m not buying your theory. Weston Price showed us that the best way to good dental health was through our diet, not by smearing on a chemical that eats through concrete. Famed neurosurgeon, Dr Russell Blaylock, describes fluoride as one of the most poisonous substances on earth. He says it accumulates in the bones, brain, and particularly, the thyroid; shutting down normal thyroid function. It is so toxic it can’t be poured into the ground, but because it dissolves in water, the government decided the best way to pass it off as “safe” was to tell people they were putting it in the water to protect our teeth, when in actuality, they simply did not know how else to dispose of it.(Dr. Blaylock discusses fluoride in his book Health and Nutrition Secrets).
To try and understand why it is you state what you have, I did glance at a few articles on whether fluorosis sufferers were prone to cavities, and the info was split. Some studies show fluorosis strengthens the teeth making cavities rare among them, while others said it weakens the teeth making them cavity-prone. Interestingly enough, just in the few studies I quickly glanced over, they always conduct these investigations by looking at the poorest people. Poverty stricken kids in the US, kids from Indonesia and Uganda. How do those results help anyone really wanting to know the truth? We have no idea what any of those kids, or their mothers while pregnant, were eating.
Like any other study out there, I take the above studies with a grain of salt because, typically, the results fall in favor of those who funded the study. Can you share the source that provides the info you have shared?
Maria P Padilla says
If you look at Fluoride, it is acidic, why on earth would you treat your mouth, which has suffered decay from an acidic compound, with more acidic compound? It makes absolutely no sense. Then to boot, you are directly putting it on topically in concentrated amounts in the doctors office where strict guidelines have to be taken when putting it on. Ever wonder why you can’t give kids under 6 toothpaste? BECAUSE THEY SWALLOW IT AND IT’S TOXIC. Yes, it’s toxic.
Connie Georgacakes Lemmink says
to add to what you have here, here’s a comprehensive website with lots of articles and links: https://fluoridefreegrandrapids.com/
Tina L. says
Do you know if the effects of enamel fluorosis can be reversed?
I’m not sure but I don’t think so. The dentist suggested we do those nasty bleach strips, but I was always afraid it would just make the white part whiter and make the discolored parts stand out more. I did just get an idea of someone I could ask though… I’ll let you know if I find out more.
when my son was little, we took him to a dentist who was into all the fluoride brainwashing. Since we had a well, she prescribed fluoride tablets. I had a bad feeling about the fluoride, so never got the prescriptions filled. But then my wife and I got divorced, so I wasn’t in the house and my ex-wife started getting prescriptions filled and giving my son the fluoride tablets, 1mg, which supposedly was an outdated dosage amount which is nowadays halved. Now my poor son has dental fluorosis and I blame myself for not being there to prevent it. I absolutely hate these dentists who do this. They should be thrown in jail. I didn’t even sue because most lawyers are unfamiliar with this problem and I was on the constant verge of a nervous breakdown involving my divorce and other problems at the time. So I basically had really bad PTSD symptoms which kept me from doing anything. I think of my son having to live with this problem now as he’s getting older and feel really horrible about it.
I feel horrible too, Mark, but neither of us can beat ourselves up over what we just didn’t know. I wish there was a way to correct it!
I always wondered what those white spots were…. my cousin ( a dental hygienist) said it was probably hereditary and there wasn’t anything we could do about it… We are now on well water and the spots are starting to disappear!
I’m shaking my head just reading these comments. For starters, stop throwing out claims that it causes cancer or any issues to do with bone weakness. Any articles you find elsewhere, other than an academic journal, has no source of credibility whatsoever.
Fluorosis, when mild (rarely anything worse) has one main known side effect – aesthetic issues, and your dentist should be able to fix this if you find it such an issue. Other than that, a tooth with fluorosis is actually less susceptible to acid erosion and decay.
Fluoride is a naturally occurring element, currently has no substantial evidence that it is carcinogenic, and multiple studies have shown that fluoride exposure has decreased the incidence rate of decay. I realise that I am probably wasting my time with this comment since a lot of people have their heart set on the opposite view, but as long as you know the facts about roughly how much fluoride should be ingested each day and at what age, very little problems will arise for your teeth.
I’m having the same issue with my son with regards to his teeth and hoping that there is some way to reduce the discolouration over time. I just finished reading one study that was done where Vitamin D3 and Calcium had reduced serum blood and urine levels of Fluoride. It was theorized that the calcium combined with available fluorine ions and becomes Calcium Fluoride and is excreted by the body. So at least there is a way to lower the fluoride in the body. Other things that would work would be consuming things with natural iodine in it as it falls in the same family as Fluorine and they compete with each other.
For those who are concerned, I definitely agree with the other ladies and get a filter that removes Fluoride….and of course all the other contaminants. I ended up purchasing a triple filter with 6 stages of filtering I think it was….from this company: https://www.pureeffectfilters.com/
I cannot begin to tell you how great I think their product is…I know some of you use RO filtration systems, but they can waste quite a lot of water, and they also strip the minerals out….so after looking long and hard I went with these guys because it removes fluoride, prescription drugs, and pretty much everything else including radiation and it also releases natural electrolytes and minerals like calcium, magnesium, and sodium…..which I thought would also help to reduce (even if slightly) the fluoride levels by drinking water…rather than raising it.
Anyhow, check it out read the reviews…all are excellent, and contact the company and as whatever questions you have as I did. I was even able to contact the lab that analysed their results to ensure it was reputable and the company’s claims were legit.
Also I too have heard that Baking Soda is a good option to use….however they had stated to use a regular non-fluoride tooth paste during the day and use the baking soda at night. I’m not exactly sure what the reasoning was but I’m sure the baking soda leaves your mouth in a very alkaline state which probably makes it hard for the bad bacteria to survive and eat away at the enamel. Though, that’s only a guess…..anyhow, I know how some of you feel and I hope that his teeth get better.
Of note, if your child’s baby teeth are discoloured, don’t waste any time thinking the next set will be better….I did that and it was a mistake as the bigger ones growing in are the same….get them off fluoridated water and get good quality water for a start.
How much fluoride caused the fluorosis?
It was daily drops in his bottle. 🙁
But the amount that could cause this is different for each person, and it would also depend on how much is in their water.
Make Your Own Natural Toothpaste
Most toothpaste contains sugar, fluoride, artificial colors, and other harmful ingredients that are best avoided. Instead of using the toxic commercial varieties, why not make your own? It’s simple and quick. Once you have the essential oils needed you can use them to make the toothpaste or tooth powder, which more accurately describes it, for years to come.
Natural Tooth Powder Recipe
½ cup baking soda
10 drops of pure peppermint essential oil (this is not the same as peppermint extract or fragrance oil. Also, it should be a high quality food grade essential oil, which is available from many health food stores)
5 drops pure myrrh essential oil (optional, also available in many health food stores)
Mix all ingredients in a small jar with a lid, cover, and shake well to disperse oils throughout. Use a small amount on a damp toothbrush the way you would use toothpaste.
The peppermint essential oil helps freshen breath, kill bacteria, and clear sinuses. The myrrh oil is highly antibacterial and anti-fungal. It is often used in the ancient healing arts of Ayurvedic Medicine. The baking soda restores a natural, slightly alkaline pH balance to the teeth and gums and helps to whiten teeth.
By the way, my presentation was successful! Thank you for your help. Very useful information!! :))
Great, I’m glad it was helpful to you!
Lindy king says
My daughter also has fluorosis. You need xylitol for teeth. Check put dr Ellie Phillips, http://www.zellies.com. Our whole family just started her program.
Commenter via Facebook says
Fluoride Action Network
FAN PRESS RELEASE: Industrial-Grade Fluoridation Chemicals Cost Society $Billions in Arsenic-induced Cancers
NEW YORK, May 14, 2013 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — Industrial-grade fluoride chemicals added to US public water supplies contain arsenic that the EPA classifies as a human carcinogen. Switching to low-arsenic pharmaceutical-grade fluoride will save society $1 billion to $14 billion annually, accordin…
Christina Carnoy says
The problem with fluoride is that it bioaccumulates in the body, 50% will stay there forever unless you find a way to detox it out. And it is in just about EVERYTHING-pesticide residue on non-organic produce, almost all prescription medications use it as a base for it’s ability to accelarate the absorption of other chemicals, it is in most bottled beverages (even, sadly, bottled water), and foods as well (Cheerios for goodness’ sake!!!) It is also all around us naturally in the environment due to general pollution. So we are taking in a huge amount of fluoride without being aware of it. Watch this movie for further information- https://www.thegreatculling.net/watch.html
Now add to that fluoridated toothpaste, supplements, and fluoridated water, and it is far in excess of any amount we might need. And we don’t actually need it. It is not a mineral, but a chemical. It is just as harmful to adults as children, but manifests in different ways. I got Thyroid Cancer at the age of 35 RIGHT AFTER I HAD A BABY after I drank fluoridated water for 3 years and then took Prozac (94% fluoride) for 4 years. I have extensively researched the topic and have compiled all the info on my blog, because we are currently fighting against having our water fluoridated here in Portland, OR. https://inarasart.blogspot.com/2013/05/anti-fluoride-interlude-fight-against.html
If you have further questions feel free to email me, [email protected]
Christina Carnoy, MAT
Commenter via Facebook says
I have read that pure sodium fluoride is safe, but the fluoride they dump into the water supply is pure toxic waste and is a carcinogen. I don’t trust any source As a cancer survivor, I avoid fluoride from all sources like the plague. I brush my teeth with pure baking soda and peroxide and I floss. Your receding gums might be an indication that you have gingivitis, which can be treated by taking CoQ10. Trust me, it works!!
Considering you are a cancer survivor, you and everyone else should stay away as much as possible from any kind of sodium (salt). It is poison!
Read what Charotte Gerson has to say about it.
In good health!
Commenter via Facebook says
fluoride has been shown to cause reduced intelligence in children. It’s a scam brought about by the aluminum industry ages ago.
Commenter via Facebook says
I’m kinda caught in the middle on this one. If I get zero flouride…my gums start pulling away from my teeth in time and get very sore….put the fluoride back in (one bottle of fluoridated to four bottles filtered tap water) and my gums stay healthy. Our tap water is well water. I do believe that there is enough evidence out there to prove that too much of it is toxic. But every persons tolerance levels are different. Every person is created differently…not equally.
Commenter via Facebook says
Good to know Denise. She won’t be using it anymore nor will any of the next five even if Ortho pushes it!
Commenter via Facebook says
I just got my braces off I hadthem on for 3 years and NEVER touched floride.. They tried to tell me I had to and I told them no.. I dont have any spots on my teeth,,, Floride is nothing but waste product and poison stay away from it at all costs!!
Commenter via Facebook says
It’s a national tragedy, controlled locally. We can change this!
Commenter via Facebook says
I’ve always avoided fluoride and thankfully our city doesn’t put it in the water… BUT… My 11 year old had braces and the Ortho insisted that a daily fluoride rinse (the pink rinse/spit stuff) was necessary to prevent white spots with the braces… Well, several months later she has white spots on her teeth and I told her to stop the fluoride rinse. So aggravating! I’m spending thousands to fix her teeth and now she has spots!
Commenter via Facebook says
There are much better ways to prevent tooth decay than poisoning ourselves. Fluoride is detrimental to both adults AND children.
Commenter via Facebook says
Commenter via Facebook says
but what do you do once they have it? my oldest has fluorosis- thank you nurses who urged me to give her fluoride water. 🙁 I don’t know what to do now.
I’ve also read there is a difference in flourides- the kind the dentists put on teeth versus the kind found in the water. Anyone else read that?
Commenter via Facebook says
Fluoride is toxic. Children are more susceptible to any toxins, not just fluoride.
I’m doing a presentation on Fluoride in my Communications class. I was wondering if you can answer a couple questions for me..
*So, are all amounts of Fluoride bad for you? Some research shows that, in moderation, Fluoride prevents tooth decay. Would you recommend small amounts, even in water, or would you recommend to completely abstain from it?
Do you know, by any chance, why Fluoride is more detrimental for children and not adults?
Thank you! 🙂
I’m certainly no expert, although personally I avoid *all* of it. And I’m not sure it’s more detrimental for kids, maybe its effects are just more insidious in adults…?
I’ll ask on Facebook and see what else we can find out. Watch for it today. 🙂
I’ve been reading a lot of good stuff about clay toothpaste and I plan to make this recipe soon:
Based on what I have been reading baking soda has aluminum in it and should be avoided.
I have been studying floride for about 300 hours. This mass poisoning is unbelievable! Just goes to show you that the public can be manipulated. Natural floride is NEVER the same as Toxic waste. It takes on a different form bu they are still nicely calling it floride. Don’t let this go on anymore. We can effect our own communities, one at a time.
Stay aware and take nothing the money powers tell us without researching on your own. BE SMART! The floride was used in German concentration camps and on POW’s to subdue them, dumb them down. Now Germany forbids floridation on its own people. They are too close to the history. Good source of starting information is http://www.floridealert.com Blessing to you all.
I have 2 children with fluorosis and we have always had non-fluoridated water and non- fluoridated tooth paste. I was told that it was due to illnesses with high temperatures experienced by the children whilst their adult teeth were forming.
In India where fluorosis has been caused by high amounts of fluoride in drinking water, they have found the fluorosis can be improved; the children were given ascorbic acid (500 mg), calcium (250 mg) and vitamin D3 (800 IU) daily for 44 days.
I have a daughter born with a cleft palette. One could say this is dental problems from the very beginning. I realize due to my reading this was caused by my SAD diet. With the birth of my youngest, I was the one with health problems. Guilt? TONS! I just have to remember everything I did and do is out of love for God, my husband and children. I would never do anything on purpose to harm them or hurt them in any way. What I can do now is pick up the pieces and move forward. I have come far enough to thank God for these problems because it woke me up to the reality of how dangerous our food is in our country. We have done a lot of our our research. I take great comfort in knowing my children and grandchildren will be healthier, happier and smarter because of the difficulities our family has gone through in the past five years. What saddens me, though, is our family and friends who mock us or tolerate us, but will not join us in this great new life of real food. They saw where we were and how our lives have changed. Many of them have health issues that could be helped. However, I also believe you can attract more bees with honey than vinegar. I am MOST grateful my husband and oldest son have embraced the real food. Since my son is away at college, he missed out on many of the family discussions on this topic. However, when he comes home, he likes the food better and now realizes the difference he feels when he eats real food vs. SAD food. My husband’s biggest complaint: he no longer enjoys some of his (used to be) favorite foods. My husband’s biggest compliment: he loves that I have a new zing in my step and am happier. He has found other favorite foods: grass fed beef, kabucha and raw milk ice cream!
Wow, you *are* super blessed that your college aged son embraces your Real Food.
I’m curious what foods your husband misses? Maybe we can help you find good alternatives? 🙂
I just wanted to thank you for this post..it’s my first time on your site and thanks to all the informative replies. At this time..I’m trying to find alternative methods in not only brushing but remineralizing my enamel..so this was a great find! I especially learned much from Mary..I’ll be taking some tips from your daily routine and apply them (especially the Cal-Mag topical applications).
Donna-Marie Cooper O'Boyle says
Thank you for this informative article and discusssion. Thankfully, I never gave my children fluoride at all. I read up on it in my health books. I considered fluoride to be a rat poison (and it is) and wouldn’t give it to my childrern. They never got it at the dentist either, I wouldn’t allow it. And just today, we celebrated my oldest child’s birthday. Believe it or not, he’s 34 years old. (How did that happen?) Well, 34-year-old Justin has never had a cavity in his life – amazing. And all of the doctors and dentists told me I had to give him and all of my other children fluoride to prevent cavities and I never listened to them because it didn’t set right with me. I was a natural mother who didn’t want to give my kids anything that could cause problems. It’s tough I know, because if you’re hearing it from your dentist or doctor, you want to listen. But, I say, research and ponder and pray, don’t just go along with anything. Do your homework. I’m sorry for all of you who have to worry about teeth problems and more now because of the stupid fluoride. Pass the word to help others.
Nourishing Nancy says
It is just a cruel reality that, whatever happens to our kid’s, mother’s take all the internal blame for. It’s in our DNA I think. I, too, had kid’s with many teeth issues. I was a vegetarian for years before having my first: she had eczema, allergies, ear infections and rotting teeth as they were emerging from the gums. She was also missing teeth and, of course, needed braces and glasses. Can you guess how I felt? My second daughter was better off because of the renewed meat in my diet, but I still hadn’t a clue what REAL food was. My third child, sadly, has some of the same teeth issues as my first daughter. I can only blame that on nausea in the beginning of pregnancy and no knowledge of “Nourishing Traditions” until his first birthday. If I could role back the date…I would. I would start by eating all the WAPF foods and continue through breastfeeding (which also took all the blame for rotten teeth). This is why we blog and “teach, you teach, you teach”. Thanks for your honesty.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist says
Kel, I have to tell you that of my 6 brothers and sisters and I, ONLY my youngest sibling (sister) has dental fluorosis. None of the rest of us do. Why? I think its because our family drank well water for years until right around when my youngest sister was born and my family hooked up to the county water (fluoridated of course)!! Coincidence? I don’t think so.
For those who stopped drinking fluoridated water: have you felt any change in your overall well-being? I mean, fluor is linked to hypothyroidism, which slows down your metabolism…
My breath used to smell bad if I didn’t brush with toothpaste, but since changing diet and stopping brushing, it doesn’t smell at all, so I don’t use anything to freshen it.
@karen in CA, re moderation, I think you are so right! I never thought of it in those terms before, but as I have become a “food nazi” my friends have started to justify their junk food consumption (and a couple family members have used it as an insult against my toeing the line) by saying everything in moderation, and it’s starting to make me cringe now that I’ve tested the realities of it: I am the only one among us who truly indulges only in “moderation” yet whenever I have given in to such cravings, I’ve watched bad moods (caused by but then eased by further consumption–a vicious cycle most of us have experienced) and increased cravings erupt in myself–“moderation” is out of the question–“once you pop you can’t stop” right?!?! shameful.
@ValerieH, oh, just reading that made my stomach turn. BUT I’m so going to try it! The thought of bone broth or brushing with just baking soda or putting raw yolk into a smoothie used to all make me gag, but none anymore, so I can apparently get used to anything…here goes….
I also cringe when someone says “everything in moderation”, so I often agreeably reply “Right… like heroin. Once in a while won’t hurt.” They usually get the point and clam up — or they just decide that I’m an impossible, militant health nut stop talking about food in front of me. 😉
That’s a good one, I love it!
I love the idea that swishing oil in my mouth will detox my body, lower my plaque, prevent gingivitis and whiten my teeth. It’s a small change, totally harmless and very cheap for the benefits. I have tried oil pulling many times but it always makes me gag a little. I will give it another go after reading this reminder.
How to do it: https://www.oilpulling.com/
Here’s a study that was conducted in India on oil pulling https://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_Pulling_on_Plaque_and_Gingivitis.pdf
Actually, I thought someone had mentioned that above but I just looked and couldn’t find it, I think it must have been on my Facebook wall where we were discussing this, too.
I’ve also heard great things about oil pulling. 🙁
It’s interesting that nobody has mentioned oil pulling as a way to oral health. I have used baking soda for quite a while now, but my teeth were still fairly yellow (and like you, Kelly, I’ll never NOT brush my teeth) from the coffee and wine–and yes, age. I changed ONE THING: doing an oil pull in the morning with some good quality coconut oil. My husband has done the same (his brushing habits aren’t that great–he doesn’t do a very thorough job–brushes for maybe 10 seconds, and OH the spots he misses every time!), and his teeth are whiter, too. For both of us, our gums are dramatically healthier–he actually had his gums scraped last year (believe me, it’s every bit as bad as it sounds). Even though I had worked in the dental field for years and have pretty good oral hygiene practices (although I never liked fluoridated toothpaste), my gums would often bleed; they no longer do so now that I do oil pulls regularly, and hubby’s gums are just healthy and pink as all get out. I would think that it might help with remineralizing a bit, too; but that’s just my theory.
Oil pulling is an old ayurvedic (sp?) practice, so don’t go thinking that it’s anything more exotic than ear candling; it’s not, and anyone can do it. Just swish a scant tablespoon of quality coconut oil for 15-20 minutes all around your mouth, pulling it past all areas in the mouth, then spit (run hot water down the drain before and during, so it doesn’t cause clogged pipes) and rinse well 3-4 times, then brush as normal, with a non-fluoride paste, or even just with plain water. I tend to use plain water as much as bs these days, and just rinse alot. Regardless of if you’re using tooth paste or soap, you should always rinse a minimum of 3 times, after actively swishing the water around each time. Do not swallow the oil (just think of the stuff it has pulled from your teeth and gums?), but don’t sweat it if you ingest a little bit (which is why it’s okay for kids to do this too)
I only just recently read that glycerin soaps take 20 rinses to rinse all residues off of the teeth, while typical tooth soaps only take 3. I did see a number of tooth soap recipes when I googled it.
We, too, have a reverse osmosis kitchen filter, which I like for its removal of many offending city water substances including fluoride. At the same time, I’ve learned from some knowledgeable trad food acquaintances that while RO removes the bad, it also removes the good things in water in the form of minerals and they need to be replaced for healthy teeth, bones & body. I’d be curious to know if I’m doing enough, or need to remineralize water using something like ConcenTrace or other ionic mineralizing method, or if having bone broth several times a week, raw dairy daily, etc. in the context of a good NT-style diet will provide enough calcium, phosphorus, etc.
By the way, this topic is covered in some lengthy conversations on the Trad Foods Minnesota Yahoo group – worth looking at. Also, here’s an interesting article referenced in one of these TFMN posts:
Personally I’ll always brush my teeth because I like how they feel afterward (I don’t brush hard, and not for a long time), and also I can’t imagine how my breath would smell without it!
Those of you who don’t brush, what do you use to freshen your breath? Just curious…
Ok… I don’t get it… why insisting in using tooth paste? why insisting in brushing the teeth?
I believe a lot of people here have read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. So, it is ALL about nutrition and not about oral hygiene.
I used to eat junk food and brush my teeth 3 times a day.
I went to dentist to fill up 6 cavities one time and 5 another (and many other during childhood).
One year after changing diet and stopping brushing, I went to the dentist and had none! This is the real deal!
Take a look at this link for other stories:
Katie Riddle says
Thanks for the info. I gave my first child two doses of fluoride before I knew better, but even before researching all things health, fluoride treatments just didn’t sit well with me.
Hi, new here…………………..we have never used fluoride or fluoridated items with any of our children because years ago I discovered through some research a dentist had published supported my theory of fluoride effects and infertility. I had recommended to me the use of baking soda and that many dentist who were turning away form the use of fluoride toothpaste recommended it’s use. It’s in a lot of the non fluoridated tooth powders as an ingredient too. I have good gums, no problems other than age;-) and since our whole family started the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, very white teeth (even during die off). We have eaten mainly whole foods type diet for over 25 years and none of our children ever drank/drink pop. Our too oldest are trying to survive college food……that’s when their cavities started:-( Our three boys (16, 13 and 8) don’t even have plaque and never have had cavities:-) We are so grateful!!!!! I wonder at the claim regarding baking soda…hmm, you would have to really brush hard and let it stay in your mouth a long time! Would like to see the scientific evidence on that;-) My poor niece and nephew went through all the above descriptions regarding fluoride drops, etc. Parents don’t always listen to reason unless it comes from the doctor. Many are afraid to. It’s a risk to take your children’s health into your own hands! I had great support when our daughter’s were born and that led the way for our sons health care decisions:-)
Thanks for the further information on fluoride………………we know some folks who can use it:-)
Janelle, so true!
janelle Hoxie says
Try using a pinch of sea salt with coconut oil, or without, you do not need a whole lot to clean the teeth, the action of a toothbrush is pretty abrasive in itself, I try not brushing too much, I don’t want to scratch my enamel especially if for some reason my diet is not up to par. It is not what is in the mouth that causes tooth decay. Yes, if your enamel is already soft and decaying, then acids will start to erode it, but the enamel remineralizes from inside out. Go to Ramiel Nagle’s website: https://www.curetoothdecay.com/Tooth_Decay/healthy_teeth.htm
He only mentions toothpaste once and he says sure use tooth soap whatever but remember its NOT about the brushing of the teeth that matters, its all about the diet!
Thanks for the article Kelly! I’ve been thinking about making my own toothpaste using baking soda, coconut oil and peppermint.. but there were some earlier posts about baking soda being harmful for the gums.
Anyone have toothpaste recipes they use that they want to share?
Debbi Does Dinner Healthy says
Very, very interesting. It totally makes sense. I’m starting to really get more on board with going natural. It just makes sense that if it wasn’t there to begin with, we don’t need it. Thanks!
My first 2 children have HORRIBLE teeth – we had flouride in our city water, the dentist blamed it on me being sick when their teeth were forming in-utero (which I have no recollection of) the next 6 kids have great teeth – well water – and the 3rd child that straddled the city/well water era just has a boatload of cavities – not the discoloration and soft teeth like the 2 older and not cavity free like the younger. Interesting yes?!
You’re just scaring me Greg!
Myrrh is supposed to be really good for the gums. It will stain the teeth over time though, so an occasional GENTLE clay brushing to whiten the teeth again might be in order. Clay is abrasive, keep it off the gums. And if you use it too often you will injure your gums. Baking soda is what I use regularly to keep my teeth whiter, but it sounds like that causes problems for some people’s gums. My naturopath recommends miessence anise toothpaste for daily use, which contains some baking soda. Good luck.
I have been following some recommendations I read about in a book called “Kiss Your Dentist Good-bye” – she recommends a couple steps 2 x per day – first a mouth wash Closys to get you teeth ready for brushing with regular Crest (flouride) then rise with Listerine (only the bottle with ADA approval) then another rinse with ACT mouthwash ADA approved -and at least 5 exposures during the day of xylitol in gum or mint form after eating – crazy?
I have some issues with gum that are receding and I am trying to keep them healthy – any ideas would be great.
Please do share what you remember of the recipe or where yout hink you might have found it! I’ve been using baking soda and loving it but I have noticed that my gums don’t look as healthy as they have in the past….
It is possible to reverse fluorosis with dietary supplements.
Mary – you talked about 2 issues – the spots from fluorosis and tooth sensitivity. I have both of these issues as well, so I want to be clear on what you did. Are you saying that you took the oils and the cal-mag for the spots and then brushed with the baking soda and the cal-mag for the sensitivity? Did you do one first and then the other? Do you know how much of these supplements you took? Do you have a rough idea of how long it took to go away?
I thought that once your teeth had grown in, that was it. I didn’t know that ingesting supplements could change the appearance.
I didn’t do anything intentionally for the sensitivity. It just went away, and I assumed it was the way I was supplementing because of my husband. My husband had REALLY BAD tooth sensitivy and he ate raw butter every day (or took the butter oil), took 2 caps Green Pastures Fermented Cod Liver Oil, and opened a Dr. Ron’s Cal Mag on his teeth after brushing at night. After about a year he commented that his teeth were better. I’m guessing at the year, because the change happened between yearly cleanings, and he was THRILLED that for the first time in at least a decade his dental cleaning hadn’t been unbearable. I have one spot on one tooth left that I feel during cleaning and that’s it.
As far as the dental fluorosis disappearing, I’m not a scientist, just a concerned mom who read a lot of things after the medical mainstream couldn’t help my sick children. A lot of medically people trained say you CAN’T get fluoride out (Layna Berman of Your Own Health and Fitness fame, whom I absolutely respect, just recently said on a podcast that you can’t get the fluoride back out of your tissues…I’ve been meaning to email her those studies and my own anecdotal evidence..). I obviously disagree, based on those studies I quoted above (those researchers in India were dealing with awful fluorisis diseases, twisted skeletons, not just spots on the teeth), and on my own experience.
There’s no arguing with the fact that I don’t have spots on my teeth anymore; meanwhile my siblings who don’t eat real well or take the same sort of whole food supplements still do. I don’t know how long it took (I’ve been taking all these supplements for about 3 years,well at least since November 2008, but the CLO and butter oil I started the family on well before that).
As far as changing the appearance once your teeth are grown in, your enamel is constantly in the process of being broken down and rebuilt. Chewing or clenching “damages” it, then the minerals in your saliva are supposed to immediately build it again. Superficially, in theory, it shouldn’t be too difficult because once you are eating the proper diet with the proper supplements if necessary, the next layer of enamel should be built properly with the right minerals instead of with fluoride. But deep down, we’d have to assume the calcium was chelating fluoride we can’t see, and I have to allow those studies speak to that because how can I observe that within my teeth and bones?
Toothpastes with glycerin (or anything sticky) inhibit the building up action. If the minerals are not present due to imbalances, the enamel will build improperly. I choose to put the Cal Mag directly on our teeth after we do our nightly oil routine. So we swallow the Cod Liver Oil in caps, but then chew the butter oil (we like raspberry flavor), and then the Cal Mag (that comes in capsules but we open them into our mouths and toss the cap). (I also usually mix the Cal Mag with the baking soda for brushings during the day–if I stay home, may not brush but the once at night, but days i’m out and about, I might brush 3 times. I don’t take any oils at daytime brushings, and I don’t think they are critical, just I like to freshen my smile before I head to class or appointments). I put the Cal Mag directly on my teeth because I assume my years on the SAD has left my body depleted and with absorption issues, so I’m applying topically the minerals I suspect aren’t adequately in my saliva and might not make it there through my digestive tract. I could be really off on any of this, but I don’t think I am.
Finally, I would say ALL the nutrients are critical (not so much the baking soda, that’s just my whitener, and some people say it’s too harsh). But the fat soluble vitamins like the A and D from pastured egg yolks, CLO plus the vitamin K2 in raw butter from pastured cows (the Green Pasture’s Butter Oil is an easy though not cheap way to ensure your getting it) are critical to your body’s utilization of the bone-building minerals. I’m pretty damned convinced of this because of my reading. Weston A Price Foundation type literature, literature from naturopaths who’ve developed various theories of disease, as well as researching for tidbits from the mainstream like I posted above. It’s a big big puzzle, and the WAPF has put the pieces together pretty well for us, is my conclusion.
I think I’ve embedded answers to your questions somewhere in there, sorry if it’s too long and rambling! Let me know if I need to clarify still!
Wow — you’ve really given me hope. I was also convinced to give my precious baby daughter fluoride drops. I must say I’m a little confused by some of the items you mentioned — and would love more than you can imagine to get some clarification from you. If you see this note, please either contact me – [email protected] or if that doesn’t go through on here – please list in detail the steps you took to lessen the effects of the fluoride. If we could find a way to lessen the spotting on my daughter’s teeth, you would chase the dark clouds away from our lives.
I’ve had people tell me to make sure to give fluoride supplements to my toddler because we drink reverse osmosis water!!! haha, people really buy into what the media, dentists, health officials say without ANY questions. Since taking charge of my own health, I feel so much more free! I used to be scared I may get cancer someday (no real basis besides a bad diet), and now that I know how to combat disease I am not scared! I LOVE life, and I love REAL food! Thank-you Kelly for getting the word out about fluorosis.
I had fluoride tablets too as a child and have had problems with my teeth since. I actually developed a hole in one of my top teeth that had to be repaired a few years ago and after my food conversion and learning about fluoride, I wish my parents had forgotten the tablets too, but they thought they were doing something good for me so I can’t fault them.
I just had my first child in July (got pregnant a few months after my food conversion) and despite her being small compared to other children (I think it’s because she’s getting breastfed from a mother who eats real food), she’s really strong and developing really fast. When her teeth do start coming in, I’ll be ignoring my doctor’s advice on fluoride tablets.
Julie L. says
I definitely find these discussions interesting! (Are you reading, Pudda? :)) We order Miessence mint toothpaste for the kids and my husband and I have used a homemade tooth powder for almost two years now. At our last dental check-up, the hygienist remarked that we are the “plaque-free family!” Did that ever make me smile! 🙂
Patty LA says
I stopped using fluoride toothpaste a few years before I had kids and haven’t ever bushed either girls teeth with fluoride. We mainly drink water filtered to remove the fluoride (they make specific fluoride filters that aren’t ro). Although the girls like to get their own water from the bathroom sink and that isn’t filtered.
My older dd is now losing her first tooth and her dentist praises her beautiful teeth. I always decline the fluoride but let her get the regular toothpaste to polish them. We stopped using any toothpaste on either girl about 6 months ago and just use water for the older girl and my herbal tooth powder for the younger girl. It is about 1/2 pascalite plus some herbs. I made it myself a few years ago and lost the recipe but it will be some more years before it is all gone. I have also brushed with soap and like that too.
Be warned that following a detox diet may lead to fuzzy teeth that nothing helps. We are following GAPS and suddenly after years of cleaner smoother teeth than I ever had using toothpaste my teeth are always fuzzy. 🙁 It will pass (and indeed it comes and goes).
Thankfully I have found health care providers who don’t push fluoride (or vaccines) and never had a confrontation over either.
Peggy, your son does sound awesome, what a great attitude!
Thanks for making me feel tons better!!
I always forgot to give the kids flouride tablets and forgot to ask for refill prescriptions. I think I finally threw the ones away that expired 5 years ago. Luckily we don’t have flouride in our water but we too also have a whole house filter and a reverse osmosis.
I always felt guilty that I kept forgetting to give them flouride and that I was not consistent on the whole brushing thing. After reading your article I do not feel bad at all.
I too have the spots from flouride treatments and flouride vitamins as a child. I wish my mom had forgotten too….. but she did what she was told to do.
Thank you for justifying my forgetfulness, I will never feel bad about it again 🙂
Stanley Fishman says
Fluoride is a deadly poison. It is so toxic that it was known as “The devils poison”. Not only does it destroy teeth, it harms the mind and many body processes, and causes the body to absorb aluminum. Aluminum causes Alzheimer’s, which causes the brain to die, function by function. Oh yes, even a small amount will kill anybody.
Why is it in our water? Huge amounts of fluoride was created by industry starting in World War 2. Because this stuff is so toxic, disposing of this waste was a real problem. This caused fluoride to be marketed as a preventative for tooth decay, when it actually destroys teeth.
white spots or not… he has absolutely beautiful teeth. remind him of that for me! The first few paragraphs were an eye opener for me. you described my eldest daughter. white spots, poor reading comprehension….
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
I second the Miessence toothpaste.
I have also found decent toothpaste at Trader Joe’s with no fluoride.
We installed an RO system in our kitchen sink so we don’t have fluoride in our drinking or cooking water. Before that we were buying RO water for a couple years.
Now I just need to get a shower filter.
Kelly, yeah, the white spots are a pain, but it could be SO much worse. I, too, took the dentist’s advice with my oldest. We had fluoridated water and I gave him the drops, which became chewables as he got older. He had what is called “porous enamel” which translates to “huge holes in the enamel that are not cavities, but will become them in time.” It never occurred to us to look at his diet. It just wasn’t something on the radar 30 years ago. As if all that weren’t bad enough, he was prescribed tetracycline routinely as a baby for croup.
Marty has severe fluorosis, and what few of his natural teeth remain are soft like putty and one at a time have required root canals. I know the science is now turning against these as well, but implants just weren’t on his financial radar. My heart absolutely breaks for him and I have felt a tremendous load of guilt over what I allowed the medical establishment to do to him. He says, “Mom, don’t sweat it. They work well enough for what I need, and my dental escapades are part of what got you where you are with the whole ‘crazy nutrition’ thing.” I love that man!
Hello,plz help,I’m in the same situation when I found out about fluoride n flourosis,threw out all fluoride toothpaste for my 2 yr old son. Bt unfortunate his 2 canine has 2 small pits in each. Can u tell me if his new teeth will also have these. I’ve been researching n can’t find a definite answer to this.plz help my baby
Thanks for another great article.
Kate, you don’t brush your kids’ teeth at all? My kids forget half the time, so maybe I don’t need to care so much, except for when their morning breath knocks me over. 🙂
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
When I first researched this and told my parents, they said “That’s just a conspiracy theory. Of course fluoride is good for you.” UGH!! We started brushing our daughter’s teeth around 6 months or so, whenever they came in, but we were never consistent (and luckily were using fluoride-free toothpaste). We don’t brush either kid’s teeth now and they are beautiful — white, straight, with small spaces in between (as baby teeth should).
Our water is fluoridated and when we were still drinking it, my daughter was waking up every night and not talking, and had B12 and glutathione deficiencies (I also blame the fact that I gave her Tylenol, ugh!), and once we stopped we noted marked improvement. It took her until 27 months to “catch up” (we stopped the water around 22 months) but now she’s moving ahead, and quickly! I can’t even drink our city water without feeling sick to my stomach anymore. Awful, awful stuff. I don’t know how they get away with it.
I’m sorry to hear about your experience, that’s something a child shouldn’t have to deal with! Try to forgive your Mom, though. She just didn’t know better and probably feels bad about it now…
Thank you Kelly for educating yourself on this condition and it’s very disturbing origins. I suffer from this. As a child, I was repeatedly mocked and insulted for the spots on my teeth. Other kids would chide me for not brushing my teeth and my mother would follow suit. It led me to brush my teeth even more (with fluoridated toothpaste of course). Now my teeth are beyond repair, and I’ve been embarrassed about them ever since. To think that if my mother had been as caring as you, I might not have felt that my tooth discoloration was my fault all of my life.
I’ve got them too, as do my brother and sister. Smiled for the first time in years about 18 years ago when I had to have veneers put on. Sounds weird, but the veneers covered the white spots which meant the rest of my teeth didn’t look so yellow. One dentist told me it was calcium deposits from my mother’s body temp being too high when she was pregnant with me! Others have had no clue. Most of my lower molars have disintigrated over the past five years because they are like chalk. Currently trying to save up for implants.
I asked my holistic dentist about the tooth soap and she thought it isn’t as effective as herbal toothpastes. I read somewhere else that glycerin (toothpaste ingredient) is too sticky to leave on your teeth. I have read the Rami Nagel book. It is very interesting. It explains the processes in the body that cause tooth decay and remineralization. Our water is also fluoridated. Last December, we found a reverse osmosis filter for under out kitchen sink. It cost around $200-$250 at Sears. The filters are expensive but the water is fabulous. My husband installed it himself. (There needs to be an extra hole in the sink next to the faucet.) I am also considering a whole house carbon filter to reduce chlorine in my shower, etc… We still get fluoride when we drink water at restaurants. The water in bottled drinks such as soda and iced tea probably contains fluoridated water. Maybe someday we’ll catch up with Europe.
It’s a miracle that’s all that happened, eh? Thanks for sharing this, Kelly, mighty courageous of you. Alas, you are not above being duped. Nor am I. I marvel how clever and deceitful the medical and food industry continues to be. Not far from the tobacco industry.
I can’t help but think how many “babies” you are saving now due to your experience! It may not be easy, but I believe Mums have to look at the cup as “half full instead of half empty” in regards to their kids health. IT’s an every day issue and comes around 3 times a day when it comes to nutrition.
Bravo to you for getting out of the complacency of listening and believing those who profit from pushing their “drug” whether it be emptied -caloried white flour , sugar or flouride. All I have to say about them is that their greed is mind-boggling. I’m sure glad I don’t have that on my conscience. If I think too much about it, I’d simply label them sociopathic….without a conscience. That makes sense and moves one into empowering themselves.
When one thinks of the food industry as criminal, it makes one stand up, research and throw away the boxes, eat out of a garden, buy organic and cut out the junk food. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again “moderation” is a concept cooked up by the food industry to promote their products.
The result is that we end up blaming ourselves for not being able to give up our processed breads [ever see a bread tree?] and our sugars, natural and otherwise. They have an addictive component to them, set up a craving for more and its hard to resist when we practice ‘moderation’ with them.
The tobacco industry couldn’t use the concept, the drug trade can’t use it, the alcohol trade tries to use it, but we laugh at the others because we KNOW. Soon, we will laugh at the use of “sugar in moderation” because we’ve lifted another veil of denial encouraged and supported by those that need us asleep [unconscious[ so we buy. And, they don’t even do it subliminally!!
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
ps. Now, all that being said, let’s be on the look-out for those companies going into the “health” field like Coco-Cola buying Odwalla, https://www.foodcoop.coop/uploads/pdf2/commons_1106_pgs13_16.pdf
Bravo to You!
Karen in CA
Barbara Grant says
My 19 year old son has white spots on his teeth, did just okay in school, hated to read. We started real food a few years ago, so his diet is better, but he too will eat junk when he can. My ten year old has a much better diet and excels in school.
Michelle @ Traditional Simplicity says
Kelly, I am so nervous to see my daughter’s teeth come in, as she loses her baby teeth. We have flouride in our water and I mixed her formula with the flouridated water. Ugh! This is a really tough topic for me right now, seeing how my DD’s dentist got down right mean with me a few weeks ago when I declined flouride a 2nd time. Needless to say, we are looking for a new dentist for her. 🙁
We use and love the miessence toothpastes. However, I also use Dr. Christopher’s tooth powder. A friend referred me to his site and uses many of his herbal formulas. I’m not 100% sure which formula I have, but I think it is this one: https://www.herballegacy.com/Herbal_Tooth.html
It definitely helps your tooth health, gums, and for me, whitens! 🙂
Joyful Mama says
Ramial Nagel (I think that’s the correct spelling?) said that baking soda can cause gum disease. I had been using bs for awhile and when I did go to the dentist I had an issue with my gums, weather or not it had to do with the baking soda I’m not sure, anyway, I stopped the bs and now make a homemade bar soap from olive oil, coconut oil, and palm oil then shred the bars up with the kitchen shredder and use the shreds as toothpaste. It was pretty easy getting used to the soapy taste…not bad really. There are a few site on the web that sell tooth soap (pretty expensive though). Soap making is really easy and fun and alot cheaper to make then to buy. I learned to make soap from Miller’s soap, you can google the name, I can’t figure out how to link it, sorry 🙂
P.S. To the bar soap I like to add sea salt and bentinite clay (our new dentist, Dr. Nupponen in Halifax, PA(spell?), said bentinite clay is very good to brush your teeth with)
Can you share how much you use of the coconut oil, baking soda & mint? Did you ever hear that baking soda isn’t great for your tooth enamel? I thought I heard that somewhere…
Thanks for your help!
concerned bystander says
I realize you mean well, but you literally learned nothing from your mistake. Your problem wasnt the fluoride, it was that you went overboard with it. .7-1.0 parts per million in drinking water is good. More is bad. Fluoridated toothpaste remineralizes small cavitys and makes them more resistant to future cavities (it is not ingested, the excess is rinsed out).
I urge you to not use coconut oil as toothpaste, please! Bacteria will use it as fuel, much like sugar. Please, please ,PLEASE fully investigate and read up on a topic before you make the same mistake, but in the opposite direction!
“I want to go find that doctor and throttle him for blindly believing whatever he must have read somewhere along the line.”
I would share that sentiment but our first Ped told us to never come back after our 2nd visit, thats when I became my children’s doctor.
My fave toothpaste is coconut oil mixed with baking soda and mint. :’) All my tooth sensitivity went away, and I’m trying to regrow my teeth back.
I fel the exat same way as you. My son has gorgeous teeth when he was a baby and he was very intelligent. We had a reverse osmosis water filtration system throughout oor entire house, because the city water was so bad for our skin. His doctor recomended the fluoride drops, so we followed the instructions to the letter. Now my baby is a teenager and has been strugling in school since about 2nd grade and I feel very responsible. Even when he was having the gastrointestinal problems, the doc never associated it with the fluoride treatments. I wish I could turn back the clock. I am about to try something different, will let you know if it works.