Good morning! What did you do this weekend? We hung around here and enjoyed food fried in healthy fats: homemade chicken nuggets and real French fries, delicious! Have you seen my post called, Deep Fried Heaven?
I got an email from my friend, Jo-Lynne last week asking, “So, if you got sick from raw milk, would you keep drinking it?” She and her kids actually got sick from their raw milk. Scary, huh? But I'm telling you about it for the same reason she posted her story – we all need to be aware of the risks. As I said in my raw milk safety post, though, there is always a chance that you could get ill, JUST like you could if you eat any uncooked foods, like raw vegetables. I have a much bigger chance of getting into a car accident, but I still ride in cars! I’d rather take that small risk of getting ill from raw milk, for the 100% chance of getting all the amazing nutritional benefits every single time I drink it. Having said that, I'll repeat what I wrote in the comments at that post (which have gone crazy, by the way): if I went through what they just did, I'd likely stop drinking it at least for a short time, too — to re-evaluate my farmers cleanliness and safe-farming practices, and to wait for it to even sound good again… But I hope I would go back to it soon. Let me know what you think?
I got an email from my friend, Jo-Lynne last week asking, “- Did you see my post from Saturday where I gave you permission to Go ahead and be nosy? 🙂
- Here in America, most of us are so removed from the poor in our everyday lives that when we're hit in the face with it, it's almost unreal. People really live in mud huts? There are schools in the world that don't even have books and are mostly empty anyway because the children are needed to work at home? If they do get to go, it's often where they get their only meal that day? When many of us are researching what water filtering systems we should invest in, other people in the world walk miles for their water. Will you do me a favor and just click over to my other site to read my post on this? How Dare I Whine?
This article is very disturbing!!! The Organic Elite Surrender to Monsanto: “In the wake of a 12-year battle to keep Monsanto's Genetically Engineered (GE) crops from contaminating the nation's 25,000 organic farms and ranches, America's organic consumers and producers are facing betrayal. A self-appointed cabal of the Organic Elite, spearheaded by Whole Foods Market, Organic Valley, and Stonyfield Farm, has decided it's time to surrender to Monsanto. Top executives from these companies have publicly admitted that they no longer oppose the mass commercialization of GE crops, such as Monsanto's controversial Roundup Ready alfalfa, and are prepared to sit down and cut a deal for “coexistence” with Monsanto and USDA biotech cheerleader Tom Vilsack.” Further into the article, it becomes even more sickening: “They apparently believe that the battle against GMOs has been lost, and that it's time to reach for the consolation prize. The consolation prize they seek is a so-called “coexistence” between the biotech Behemoth and the organic community that will lull the public to sleep and greenwash the unpleasant fact that Monsanto's unlabeled and unregulated genetically engineered crops are now spreading their toxic genes on 1/3 of U.S. (and 1/10 of global) crop land.” PLEASE use the links at the bottom of the article to send a letter to the top grocery stores AND to Whole Foods! It takes about 20 seconds each! (Thank you to everyone who sent this link to me.)
This article is very disturbing!!! - Warning: next up is a video totally unrelated to health or nutrition. Remember how much I love watching jets scream over my head? Check this out! (Another warning: the guy in the first clip from Top Gun swears with the Lord's name, I hate that…I'd much rather hear the F-bomb, you know?)
IC says
Yes – the forum sounds great, I’d love to see the articles there.
D. says
Here is a link to one of the ethnobotany subjects I posted there:
https://healthtalk.6.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=4104&highlight=ethnobotany
Keep in mind, however, that there are discussions about lots of other things, too. I’ve considered closing the forum because most of the people moved on about 1.5 years ago when I had to re-do the whole thing because the host (forumer.com) did some upgrading. Then, they did it again this fall. Evidently there are quite a few people who read the stuff but they don’t log on and comment. I received emails galore asking me not to shut down.
The forum costs me nothing and I prefer it to these blog things because I can add photos and bold lettering and colors and different fonts, etc., etc. It just seems a lot more user friendly. But, of course, no one is going to pay me to link to their products, etc., so forums kinda got the bum’s rush a few years ago.
If you want to converse there, you’ll have to register but it’s not a big deal to do so. Just a username and a password, that’s it.
D. says
My only daughter doesn’t want to garden. She isn’t interested for herself because she has a demanding job, but she does like to volunteer at the local community garden where she lives. My middle son works for the US Forest Service and loves anything that grows, so he plants a small garden each year just for himself. He’s gone a lot of the time helping in other parts of the US when there are disasters (natural and otherwise) but sometimes he sees his own garden plantings through to fruition! I’m not geographically close enough to help him out with that project, so he just has to take what he gets if Mother Nature has to tend his garden while he’s gone. My youngest son and his family plant veggies and flowers, but neither of them really have a green thumb, so it’s more a project than an actual contributing factor to the foods in their home. They do it mostly for the kids.
We have many ways of meeting the elders in our area. My DH has rented a spare garage in an office complex (he rebuilds cars) and his neighboring tenants are both Native American and they have introduced him to many rez folks, which helped immensely. Sometimes we get our grass-fed bison from them, too. Also, in my infant day care I’ve had many Native families. This past fall we were invited (and you MUST be invited) to share in a Cord Ceremony – it was quite a moving experience to be a part of that ancient ritual, and we met a LOT of people there who have been very helpful in introducing us to others who can help us to learn.
I think you misunderstood my Viola thing – In computereze I meant “whaa-laa” or whatever they say these days. I expressed it that way because many people don’t realize that Native Americans practiced “preventive” type things. Most people think of them only using herbs and plants and berries and roots and bark and clay, etc., once illness strikes. They were really quite good at knowing what to do and when. This is why the whole thing interests DH and me. DH is a retired EMT/firefighter and he never felt comfortable with all the drugs the industry throws around like so much candy. We both feel as though we are more in our element with plants. The funny thing is, DH is German/Russian and I’m Swedish/German, so our interest comes, I’m sure, just from growing up around Native people our whole lives.
I don’t know how much I’ll be able to share with you, since this deals with only the plants native to our area. It would depend on whether or not YOUR area of the country has those same plants, I guess. But I’ll share a few things which are common to most areas. We should probably do that through regular email though, and not take up Kelly’s forum space. Let me know how you’d want to do that, k?
D. says
I guess I could or should add, that I also have my own forum (not a blog, a forum) and we could always communicate through that medium if you prefer not to do it through email. I can post the web addy for my forum here if you’re interested in going that route. I have many articles in the alternative medicine area of my forum concerning herbs, etc. as medicine.
D. says
@ IC: It’s strange that you should mention people knowing (or should I say NOT knowing) plants which are native to the area in which they were raised or the area in which they now live. My DH and I are both students (old fogey students!) of ethnobotany. We are getting a great one-on-one education from some of the local Native American elders of the various tribes in our region of the US. It is fascinating to learn about all the different native/regional plants (some of which no longer exist) and why each tribe used them and for which ailments. Some plants/herbs/flowers/trees were used to keep them healthy, rather than “fix” them if they became ill. Viola – prevention – even back then! What is super amazing is the many ways they used each item. They didn’t just make tea, they used each part of the plant (or whatever) for a different thing, as far as healing – like a poultice, or a tincture, or made into a paste and applied transdermally just like we use some things today.
Can’t answer your query about why some people/kids become ill and others do not. There again, it may go back to gut health, especially the gut health of the mother at the time of conception and pregnancy term.
IC says
WOW – I hope you can share what you learn. We have quite a few reservations in our area as well. How did you get acquainted with the elders in your area? Viola – what kind of preventative and I assume you mean eating the flowers? I am gearing up to plant a bunch of edibles. (Luckily I can put vegetable boxes in my front yard without getting fined.) I think the kids will need this kind of experience in order to eat well when they are on their own. I hope they can get involved with community garden type stuff in college.
IC says
I totally agree. I think we have lost (at least in western medicine) some of the herbal and other natural remedies, though. Especially some of the very localized things. How many people know their native plants? I also wonder about the families where some kids get sick and others do not and why.
D. says
@ IC: It’s not lost knowledge. It’s covered-up knowledge. Our medical industrial complex doesn’t want us to be healthy or they make no money. Which is also why they don’t promote the use of things like real homemade yogurt and kefir, etc. Bad gut = unhealthy in every way. My DH’s cousin is a gastroenterologist and he says if people ever find out how important gut health is to their overal health, the medical industry would be down on its knees. I believe him since our immune system begins in our mouth and ends with the anus. Our gut is right in the middle of all that action.
;->) Clearly, we need to keep preaching and teaching the masses. But it’s slow going against BigPhrma, BigFood/Ag, and other BigCorp interests. In order to prop up the insurance industry, they work hard to keep us sick, which keeps the insurance industry in control as much as the BigCorp guys.
We is livin’ on the edge of change. I hope you and I and the rest of the masses don’t end up under the bus.
IC says
I would totally drink this milk! They batch test before selling now – in my mind that makes it safer than a pasteurized option.
My family was very sick years ago – from something with salmonella-tainted peanuts. (I know for sure because we got a recall letter and the only family member who did not get sick did not eat any.)
I wish there was more research put into WHY some people get sick while others do not. I have a feeling we once knew and this is lost knowledge.
Herman says
Hey guys, on this whole raw milk thing… I just found this on the farm’s website. It’s the letters the owner wrote to his customers during the outbreak. I thought it might be interesting to those of you who have been following this as it happened.
https://www.yourfamilycow.com/current-events.html
D. says
The problem with raw milk is that every time someone gets sick (for whatever reason) if they are raw milk drinkers, well, the state and national folks are first gonna point their finger at the raw milk, no matter what else is in their fridge or in their stomachs. That’s just gotten to be a fact of life for some reason. For millenia people drank raw milk with no sanitation measures whatsoever, and there were probably some who died, I’m not saying they didn’t. But for the most part people have survived drinking animal milks for generations with a lot less “control” than what we supposedly have now. I don’t know, it sorta seems like whole foods are a magnet for blame these days, for no good reason most of the time. We’ll all just have to learn to live with wild accusations, I guess.
It surprises me that these poor dairy farmers even bother with anyone but their own families anymore.
jessica kiehn says
We found a great local farmer that we were getting raw milk from and we LOVED it at first, until we realized that every time we got it, my 2 year old would get snotty, and stuffy-nosed and mucousy…and I would get a yeast infection (of all things?!) every.single.time.
So, sadly we had to switch to the store-bought organic 2% milk:(
KitchenKop says
Jessica,
Why 2% from the store, though? I always tell people ONLY whole milk.
I wonder if you tried a different raw milk farm if things would be different, maybe it was something in their pasture or ??? Just thinking as I type…
Kelly
Lillian says
I read the entire article about raw milk making that family sick and all of the follow up comments. How sad for them.
I grew up drinking raw goat and cow milk. We never once got sick from it. My parents still have goats and I drink raw milk, eat the cheese they make, etc. whenever I visit. They are very, very careful about cleanliness, so I don’t worry about getting sick from their milk.
Where I live I can’t legally buy raw dairy products, so for me it isn’t something that I’ve had to think about too much. I have a good source of organic, pasteurized, non-homogenized milk, and that’s the best we can do. If I could access raw milk products I would need to see the farm and see how it’s handled before consuming it.
If we ever became sick from raw milk products, I’d probably shun them for a while. When people were getting sick from spinach we didn’t eat it for a long time and now I’m even more careful making sure it’s very, very clean. Even though it says “triple washed” on the bag, I thoroughly wash it again. I haven’t eaten a cantaloupe since they were sickening and killing people. I’m sure I will in the future but right now I’m still a little scared. I think it’s an honest reaction.
Amy says
I really appreciated you sharing the raw milk post. I’ve been sick from food-bourne illness before, and it put me off that food for awhile. I don’t think it should make anyone “sad” to hear that people have changed their minds after reading the post. If you’re that nervous about something, then it’s important to do what you are really comfortable with and feel is best for your family. My husband and I have been debating this for a little while since I am pregnant, lost our last pregnancy (not related to milk), and we are not 100% comfortable with the only raw milk source in our area. Our current solution is to pasteurize ours until we feel better about it. If I was that anxious about riding in cars, I would be taking the bus, too. That’s the beauty of the freedom of choice we have. I just don’t want someone taking away my freedom to buy raw milk if I choose!
D. says
@ Amy: Yes, it’s sad. Here’s why: you said you aren’t 100% comfortable with your local producer/source of raw milk. You know what? YOU need to talk to them and take responsibility for their product, too. If you feel something isn’t right about their production habits, you need to shoulder the responsibility of asking how they do things, or ask to have a tour of the facility while they are milking, etc. This is your supplier. Are there others who purchase milk there? Does the farmer drink his own milk? Has anyone been sick recently? Do you really believe the milk is the reason? Then start asking questions. Apathy will not solve the problem. But not drinking raw milk because you fear your supplier is kinda sorta bull, if you know what I mean.
If you don’t feel comfortable, then pasteurize your milk, but it defeats the purpose of raw milk. It would be much better for all involved if YOU stay a part of our free society and ask a few questions of your supplier.
Amy says
D,
I find it interesting that you summarized my post by describing me as “fearful” and “apathetic.” I think it is important not to make assumptions about others’ situations, but to find a common ground of support and encouragement of each other in the quest for the best nourishment for ourselves and our families. You do not know if I am a raw-milk-drinking novice or veteran. Nor do you know my involvement with this industry in our area. I appreciate our farmers and believe their integrity and production methods to be stellar. Due to your tone, I am sure any mention of recent illnesses and recalls in this area will be met with conspiracy-theory replies from you. At this point, my husband and I have adopted the same attitude as Jo-Lynn and recognizing that what is important to us is that we would much rather drink pasteurized, non-homogenized, grass-fed milk than that from the grocery store. We are each at our own points in this journey, and while I respect your freedom to express your opinions, belittling others will improve nothing.
D. says
@ Amy. You know nothing about me, either, and I was simply saying that people must take responsibility for what they buy, I was not belittling you in any way. I just read that you said you weren’t all that happy with your source, so I feel when people say those things it’s possible they don’t know their source as well as they think. It’s got nothing to do with conspiracy theory crap – let’s don’t go there.
KitchenKop says
Hey guess what guys? I probably did read that article last year (and forgot), but before posting today, didn’t even realize that it was from 1-11, I saw January and thought it was from last month…… Heh, sorry for the old news. I’m sure it still wouldn’t hurt to send the emails to the stores, though. And Kate, thanks for the scoop from WFM.
Kelly
Stanley Fishman says
Since when do a few big companies speak for the organic community? Or the Real Food community? They certainly do not speak for me. The government needs to pay attention to the people, inviting comments from the public, and LISTENING to us, rather than only paying attention to a few greedy companies.
I think we have become a nation of the corporations, for the corporations, and by the corporations.
That is a perversion of the ideals of our founders.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
That whole “organic elite” thing about companies “selling out” is a full YEAR old. It’s not news. I’ve also read Whole Food’s response on their blog, something you should read (and probably post). Whole Foods tentatively agreed to the GE alfalfa only because the two options presented were “with restriction” and “without restriction” and they felt that at least they could promote restrictions, even if the crop was coming out. No GE crop has ever been denied, so they didn’t have a lot of hope this one would be, either.
However, according to their own website, they remain fully committed to keeping any and all GE products out of their store, to promoting labeling, and to fight to stop it whenever possible. So I don’t think it’s fair to keep coming back and saying “Whole Foods sold out!”
As for the raw milk thing, I’m very sad to read many of the comments on that post. All these people who believe that raw milk is a healthy thing…but now because of JoLynne’s experience are going to stop drinking it, even though they have never been sick? That is really, really sad. They should make a decision based on all the available data, not freak out because a few people did get sick. We know that simply existing comes with inherent risk! And I believe the benefits of raw milk far outweigh the risks.
Last month we did not have raw milk for a few weeks because we were switching to a new source and they weren’t ready yet (brand new herd-share program, but we’d bought other products from them for awhile). I have access to low-temp-pasteurized, grass-fed, non-homogenized milk. I bought it. It just doesn’t the taste the same, and it made me SO nervous. I know that it doesn’t have any health-promoting bacteria, so there’s realistically more chance of contamination. Also, I would carefully smell it before using it and if it smelled even a little off, I would throw it out. Raw milk sours naturally and is safe (even beneficial) to continue using, while pasteurized milk is actually “bad.” I felt very unhappy to have to buy pasteurized milk for any length of time, and feel much safer and more at ease now that we have raw milk again.
I understand “gut reactions” and we all have them. I just wish people weren’t so swayed by fear.
D. says
I agree Kate. I read about that “elite” dealie at least a year ago, if not more. A recirculated scare tactic, probably from someone in gubberment.
Also, I agree about how sad it is for people to just up and stop drinking raw milk because of all the current controversy. When fecal matter was messing up the spinach supply, I didn’t see anyone giving up spinach. I mean, seriously – where I live people were still buying it by the bag as much as they ever were. I only say this because no matter what food is being blamed, we (the public) are never really sure what game is being played with us this week, concerning real foods. It seems to be a favorite whipping-boy type subject for the FDA and it’s tentacle agencies. There’s always going to be something going on but we are concentrating on the wrong subjects, as far as I’m concerned. If the FDA were really “protecting us”, these things wouldn’t happen in the first place, right? It’s actually why I prefer to have raw milk be an unregulated entity, but now I think McAfee and all this RAWMI stuff he’s promoting has just put the whole subject into the spotlight – just what the small farmers didn’t need. I grew up on a dairy farm and we sold or gave milk, cream and whey to anyone who wanted it, depending on how much they wanted, and no one talked about it so we never had raids by the FDA swat teams or the FBI sitting in trees on our farm with binoculars to spy on us. I wish they put this much effort into “what can go wrong” on a CAFO and the confined milk operations.
We have people who are afraid to eat anything which isn’t “approved” by someone. How disgraceful can our gubberment be? They are always pointing the finger at the wrong culprit and they are always looking the other way when it’s a major food producer who is responsible for some illness break-out. After the headlines about the tainted turkey burger, how much did you hear about it again? What about the tainted eggs from DeKoster’s Iowa chicken slave farming operations? One little blip and never another word. Can’t seem to offend those who have money, but the little guy? Yeah, we’ll crush ‘im. That seems to be the current gubment motto. As I said, disgraceful.
We do not live in a free society anymore, because in a free society people are liable, and so, need to be responsible. Instead we use fear like a big stick with a nail in the end.
Wendy (The Local Cook) says
I visited a goatshare farm last fall and found it interesting that her research had shown that goat’s milk is much better for us than cow’s milk. Just wondering if you’d ever heard that. I’ve been thinking ever since maybe I should switch . . . even though it is bit pricier, I do love goat cheese!
D. says
I love goat milk, my husband hates it. So we do both. I like to drink goat milk, but I prefer to use cow milk for cooking/baking/souring. Also, I need the whey. I have access to real *cow* cream so I make my own butter twice weekly, and I wouldn’t be without it. It’s much harder to make butter from goat milk. Since it’s self-homogenized, it’s tough to get enough cream from goat milk. But it was our choice of first-food for our babies if ever I couldn’t breastfeed for a time or something. Some kids do much better on it, and babies almost always do. I wish more young mother’s today would consider it’s use, rather than that crappy powdered formula. That junk is nasty, and now even the organic brands are facing the critics because it has something called cupric sulfate in it (which is bad but I don’t remember all the details) and also the public is finding out just how bad the fake fish oils (for DHA and ARA, etc) being added to the formula are turning out to be, because it’s being promoted as “healthy for eyes and brain function”. It’s the Alpina oil that’s bad, I guess. Powdered baby formula is poison in a can, and I have to feed it to my little clients every day. Breaks my heart. Some of it stinks so bad! If we were trying to promote real, raw milk that smelled sooo bad, I bet there isn’t a Mom around who would even consider giving it to their baby, but since this is “approved by the APA” it’s fine no matter how it smells or how many warnings we might get about the junk.
I’ve tried to educate people are using real raw milk (goat and cow – whatever) but they are quite resistant to the idea because it requires some effort. Heaven forbid they might have to spend a minute doing something that doesn’t require an electronic gadget where they’re connected to their “friends”. Young parents today sometimes have their priorities all mixed up. As much as I enjoy my computer for doing research and stuff, I’m really glad they weren’t around when my three kids were growing up. I know I’ll catch flack for that statement but it’s true. And if I’m not truthful, I’m nothing!
I recently read that Dr. Mercola is developing a baby formula powder. I hope he puts A LOT OF THOUGHT into this before it’s released to the market. I want to see a formula with lots of healthy oils and less synthetic “vitamins”.
Someone should also remind young parents, too, that vaccination is not immunization.
KitchenKop says
Wendy, I’ve heard the same thing (that goat milk is better), but I’ve also heard two more things:
–It tastes quite a bit different (so I doubt I could get it by the fam), but also…
–that if they’re fed correctly, it *doesn’t* have too much of a different taste…
If you try it, let me know. (Did you talk to the person who is on the NWWM local sources for milk page? She’s so knowledgeable about goat milk isn’t she?!)
Kelly
Jen says
Kelly, just read the raw milk post you listed. Thanks for putting out both sides of the issue. It’s so important that everyone hear it can make you sick and then let people decide for themselves what they will do. Keep up the good work! 🙂