How important are fruits and vegetables, and EXERCISE?
Let's talk about fruits and veggies and their true impact in our diets. Zoe shares a few diet myths in this very interesting video that you can tell the Fox News guy isn't buying, too bad for him!
Below read the conversation that video sparked with another blogging friend. I can't wait to hear what you think about all of this! (Also, read more here about healthy REAL fats.)
You may have to wait a bit for this video to load:
Here's the conversation this video started between myself and Jenna, from Food with Kid Appeal, and I'm also including a couple more comments below, too…
Jenna:
I’d like you and your readers to think about an aspect neither Sally nor the British woman mention in their videos.
There are four necessary macronutrients (macro = needed in large quantities) fat, protein, carbs and water. micronutrients = needed in small quanitites) those are the minerals, antioxidants found in plant based foods, and animal products from animals who eat plants (fish is rich in omega 3 because they eat algae and other sea plants, or other fish who have eaten sea veggies, grass-fed beef has omega 3 because cows eat grass), etc.
Fruits and veggies do contain a tiny amount of protein, and some contain fat (avocados and those with edible seeds) but for the most part they are carbs, but they are loaded with micronutrients. It is true that they are not as good source of protein or fat as animal products are, but there is no reason for Nourishing Traditions or real fat folks to be bashing fruits and veggies. 100% fruit juice (which is 100% fiberless fructose and metabolized much like alcohol) is a different story — I'm talking about WHOLE fruits here.
Point 1) Fruits and veggies are some of the least toxic and nourishing foods that people on the SAD (Standard American Diet) eat. To tell people, wait, wait F&V aren’t really that necessary is a bad move. If SAD eaters just eat LESS grains, eliminate fake fats, factory animals and processed foods and eat MORE fruits and veggies, they will still be healthier.
Point 2 ) every human living in a modern world is experiencing a lot of toxic load from the environment. Even those of us who eat real food and real fat are exposed to toxins in water, air, and in the products that make up our homes, food storage, clothing, vehicles, etc. That toxic load needs to be reduced by antioxidants like those found in plant based foods. Animal proteins will help with this assuming the animal is eating a plant based diet. But eating PLANTS is also a great strategy to reduce toxic load and free radicals at a cellular level.
Point 3) anyone who has spent any amount of time eating SAD is probably dealing with inflammatory process in their body somewhere. Real fats are anti-inflammatory but so are plant based foods like dark leafy greens, herbs etc.
Telling people not to eat veggies or illustrating that “veggies aren’t as good as fats and proteins” without acknowledging the benefits of toxic load reduction (antioxidants) and benefits to inflammatory response doesn’t paint the whole picture.
Not to mention that eating an 80% animal fat, protein diet of pastured meat is cost prohibitive for a large % of american families. What should those families eat to avoid hunger when their budget has purchased as much real animal products as is possible and there are still hungry mouths? Should they eat grains? Should they eat processed foods? Wouldn’t salads and veggies be a better way to fill up a plate than grains or processed foods?
Yes animal fats and proteins contain more macronutrients than fruits and vegetables. BUT disparaging fruits and veggies will not help America’s health.
I get the fine point that Sally was making and NT folks and real foodies get the fine point. The general population who is entrenched in SAD and USDA pyramid, won’t hear the fine point, it’s too far over their head. What they will hear is “oh, here’s a nutrition expert that says fruits and veggies aren’t that good for me, and they’re kinda hard to get my family to eat anyway, we prefer snacky processed food, so I’ll stop trying to get those veggies on the plate. Since they don’t help health, why work hard to get them down the hatch?”
My response:
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Hi Jenna,
Those are all very good points and I don’t disagree with them, but I think the reason I like to get this message out there (that animal fats are more important than fruits and veggies) is because I get SO sick of the mainstream voices ramming the ‘eat more veggies” line down our throats and then telling us that animal fats are bad. We eat fruits and vegetables around here, sure, quite a few actually because we enjoy variety in our foods (although not as many in the winter when local isn't available), but people all over still just don’t KNOW that their bodies NEED more animal fats. (And yes, most preferably from pastured animals.) And they don't know that someone can be quite healthy even if they're not eating a ton of produce.
I also want them to know that even if they're not exercising, just eating better and especially watching the carbs, can have huge implications! Then once they feel better after cleaning up their diet and probably losing some weight, likely they'll have the energy and motivation to go for a walk more often.
Jenna:
I hear what your saying Kelly. I just don’t think that the average american eating the standard american diet with the average level of nutrition education will hear from that video “oh, real animal fats are more important than veggies” they hear ” wow, veggies aren’t that healthy for me so I don’t really need to eat them, and I don’t really need to bother to move my body, I just need to avoid trans fat (because that’s what everyone thinks of as “bad fat”) and I’m good to go”.
WE get the finer point, because our mindset is different. The “as-is” mindset of most viewers of those news clips will not allow them to hear the “animal fat is more nutritious than vegetables” message you hope they hear.
You may be sick of hearing mainstream media bash saturated animal fat and push veggies on a pedestal, but IMO, this is not the way to get them to understanding. It only confuses them further, and may even get them to stop trying to eat the least toxic thing they are eating and feeding to their kids.
Not sure what would be better, don’t have a solution….
So what about you, where do you fall on this issue?
- Note that when you DO eat your vegetables, eat them with plenty of real butter or other healthy REAL fats so you can better utilize the nutrients that ARE in there.
- Purge, Splurge, Fast and Last — great weight loss advice
- Low Carb/Keto Diet recipes you'll love
- See Sally's 8 minute video about the WAPF's Healthy 4 Life dietary guidelines
S. says
I think that fruits and vegetables are not bad in moderation, but the USDA acts as if they should be the one thing alongside with grains that sustains you. I eat fruits and vegetables as peripheral items – although I do feel more complete in my regimen if I include some vegetables. Fruits don’t feel quite as necessary for me. But if I were to eat as many vegetables as the USDA were to recommend, I would be having the worst gas on earth. I like fruits and vegetables but they are far from being able to sustain me the way fats and proteins could. That’s not to say they have no place in my life.
Amy says
I think fruits and veggies are really important. They have lots of trace nutrients, and I think there’s a reason our grandparents ate a balanced diet. Also, they’re yummy and add variety to the diet. Ones grown on healthy soil will be more beneficial, of course, but even an un-organic apple grown in a conventional orchard is more nutritious than a bag of doritos. I think the focus should be on a balanced whole foods diet that includes a little bit of everything. I recently got more restrictive with my diet and had a worse health outcome than when I just tried to eat 3 squares a day of food that I really enjoyed – lesson learned. The more inclusive we can be of whole foods, the better.
Sally says
I am 56, my husband is 61 and our friends and family are dying of cancer. I don’t have time to pander to the lazy and uneducated amongst us. If they want to hear that news clip and trade in fruits and veggies for candy bars, have at it. Those of us who have an inkling that you are what you eat will move beyond the news clip and do more investigation.
We can do nothing about “how they interpret it” or what they do with the information. If that is our driving concern, then our only option is to shut up or kill ourselves trying to figure out how to get them to get it. The fact this is on FOX at all is a frickin’ miracle.
Let’s change ourselves and set a shining example. Perhaps a couch potato will glance up and notice one of her healthy happy neighbors (us) looking great while pounding down a nice fat sirloin dripping in pastured butter… and ask how she does it.
D. says
YAY!!! A shred of common sense appears. Thank you, Sally.
Leon @ Organically Thought says
Hey every one we are new to blogging and we just posted a request for people to share something anything maybe about there plans for the weekend ora good link or to promote something. IF you can help us get some activity we would be very grateful. You can find the post here https://organicallythought.com/3-day-weekend-hear all spam protection is turned off so go ahead and leave as many links as you like lol
D. says
Good luck with that Leon.
I just closed down my forum which has been up and running for over three years. It was a good forum where we discussed health topics and exchanged all sorts of recipes, gave household cleaning tips, featured prominent news articles, etc.
Everyone (besides me) is now on Facebook and it drives the smaller, less active forums, and even some of these blogs, out of existence. There are several places where I’ve wanted to make comments after reading stuff, but if you aren’t signed up at Facebook you can’t comment. So I don’t comment because I have no intention of going over the the FB crowd. SOrry, it’s just not for me.
Melissa @ Dyno-mom says
I am glad you posted this dialogue! I think at times we all have remember the different perspectives that people come from and try to address the one we see our audiences coming from whether it is on a blog forum or just talking to someone in the grocery store. There is a vast chasim between someone eating the SAD diet and filling their kids up with apple slices and carmel sauce at soccer and my girlfriend who gives her kids nuts and cheese. When we discuss the fine specifics of incorporating plant foods into our kids’ diets, and how much, the conversation has to start from the perspective of the person I am speaking with. I need to work on my bossiness at times and not shut people down or confuse them, either one, just because I have a failure to consider where they are coming from.
Thanks for the great work you have been doing lately. These are conversations that should be part of the mainstream!
Margaret Auld-Louie says
I agree that people won’t understand from this Fox news clip that they need to eat full-fat pastured animal products to get the nutrients they need. They will just hear that it’s not necessary to eat fruits and vegetables and will think it’s OK to eat the meat, dairy and eggs from the grocery store or restaurant, which don’t provide the nutrients they need as they are not from pastured animals, plus they are full of toxins. And they may still think they should eat low-fat meat and dairy, since it’s been so pounded into their heads that saturated fat is bad. Even some people at the local WAPF meetings don’t really get that most of the meats in stores are not pastured, even in health food stores. At the last WAPF meeting, there was a picture book on CAFOs (that the chapter leader won at FTCLDF event) and when I explained to 2 women that even the organic chickens are raised packed together in barns like shown in the picture, they were astonished. They had in their heads that if chicken is labeled “organic”, then it must be pasture-raised and healthy for them. I had to explain what “free range” and “organic” means vs. pastured. And if people at WAPF meetings don’t get this, you can be sure that the general public does not. And for those who do get it, they may not be able to do pastured animal products as it takes an incredible amount of effort, and more money, to eat this way. You pretty much have to buy all your meat, dairy and eggs direct from farmers, which takes more time, you have to ask questions about how they are raising the animals (just because they are a small, local farmer doesn’t mean they are raising the animals in an optimal way), and you need more freezer space (I have 2 large freezers now, one just for meat).
D. says
What FOX news clip? I never watch TV news shows, and I’ve searched around at this article and clicked on all the links and cannot find a newsclip by FOX. Someone please enlighten me. Are we talking about a couple of different clips both featuring Sally Fallon???
KitchenKop says
You can’t see the Fox news clip in the post above??
It’s just AFTER this paragraph: “First watch this video on Diet Myths that I first posted back in April in a Monday Mix-up, and then read the conversation it sparked with another blogging friend. I can’t wait to hear what you think about all this! (Also, you can read more here about healthy REAL fats.)”
If not, try using another browser.
D. says
The only thing which shows up as “clickable” in that paragraph is the article about fats. there is no fox news article or video or anything else. Sorry, I’m exclusive to IE and don’t make a habit of changing browsers. Whenever I go to the sources pages with your blog, or Jenny’s (Nourished Kitchen) blog or any one of a number of other blogs, I can’t see the sources either – they are not clickable. I’ve turned off my ISS, I’ve turned off pop-up blockers and all the rest of the myriad suggestions, but those source links are totally unavailable to me. I just go find my own stuff!
Blogs. I love them but I hate them. I much preferred the forums (like my old one) but now they’re considered obsolete. At least they worked. 😉
KitchenKop says
Firefox is very simple, though, and a snap to install, free, etc… I like it MUCH better than IE and would never go back.
And if you click on stuff in our resources page, it helps all of us bloggers, at least a little, since we work for peanuts, literally! Just something to consider.
Kel
D. says
I just went back and listened once more to the vid where Sally talks about the new USDA food guidelines, which is what this post of Kelly’s is about. I’m sorry, Jenna, but I just didn’t hear what you heard, at all. Please go back to the vid and start a minute 5:00. Sally does, at no time, tell people NOT to eat fruits and veggies because they aren’t as healthy (or should I say health-giving) as meats. She does not bash fruits and vegetables. She simply states a fact by saying they are not as nutrient dense as meats and proper fats.
A case here of gross misinterpretation, IMPHO. Sometimes people only hear what they want to hear, I guess.
D. says
You might want to double check what you all know about the Seeds of Change company. They are owned, now, by the Mars Candy Company (who make snickers and stuff like that).
https://www.businessinsider.com/13-ethical-mom-and-pop-brands-that-are-actually-owned-by-giant-corporations-2011-10#mars-bought-seeds-of-change-for-an-undisclosed-amount-in-1997-1
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Chipotle is owned by McDonalds too but I still love Chipotle & see it as using my voting dollar for the GOOD that they are doing. Same w/ organic seeds from SOC. The more we vote for this stuff w/ our food dollars, the more companies WILL notice, it’s already happening. 🙂
D. says
What’s already happening?
KitchenKop says
Companies are noticing!!! That’s why new lines of organic foods are popping up like crazy (some good, some bad) and farmers markets are booming. There are a lot of frustrating things happening, but some good things, too. 🙂
D. says
Be careful at those farmers markets that you aren’t buying safeway tomatoes at an even more premium price, and not someone’s homegrown organic produce. It happens. Also, at our local farmers market last year I discovered folks selling corn-fed beef as grassfed beef. We happened to know them and knew better. Again a premium price being paid for an inferior, mislabeled product. The Mom and Pop “trust everyone’s word” mentality is long gone and we might as well face it.
My point is: BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU PURCHASE. Whether you live in WADC or the boonies like me, you can still “get took” if you aren’t careful. Money has become too valuable to pay for cheap imitations of the real thing.
KitchenKop says
Totally agree, we have to be careful everywhere!
Suzy says
I think everyone has some good and valid points. I don’t know that I mind that the message was short and that people may misinterpret it. If someone decides to take one short news segment and base their whole eating plan around that then they aren’t doing their due diligence. People need to start taking their health in their own hands and do a bit of research.
I know not everyone will research and read as much as I do, but putting a bit more effort into their health might help people to take ownership. Not everything, even health advice, can be handed to you on a silver platter.
shannon says
I understand Sally Fallon’s point but her comment sort of reminds me of the recent grain post. When we start trying to categorize food too much, people will get the wrong message, zone out, or get really frustrated.
I think I’ve been thinking about food and food prep way too much lately and it’s become more complicated than I like. Eat meats, eggs, veggies, fruits, fats, milk and some grains.
allison burgueno says
Agree and second all of the statements that Americans will listen to this and think, “oh goodie! I don’t have to eat fruit vegetables anymore!” Agree and second the statements that say reaching for an apple, banana, celery, carrots, etc YARDS better than reaching for a candy bar, can of cola, or piece of cake.
This is a fast food nation and guess what that broadcast may have done? I know she said to eat from good sources, but who’s to judge what a good source is? I know, I eat pastured beef, wild fish, and eggs from my own chickens – but I’m not typical – not by a longshot. Typical people will say, ” Oh goodie! I get to eat all of the meat I want. Do you think for one second people look down at their fast food burger and think – ugh – I really should be doing this, it isn’t quality? No they think, “It’s cheap, it’s quick, it fills me up, and it tastes good (I almost vomit looking at them).
It is completely irresponsible to bring somebody who says that on television, especially FOX! Their constituency doesn’t need to be told to stop eating veggies…they need to be told to stop watching fox and go move.
Furthermore, to say exercise doesn’t help you? HOLY COW! it sure does. She just encouraged those couch potatoes to sit and keep on sitting. Just sitting is actually very bad for your body.
Irresponsible.
Kimi @ The Nourishing Gourmet says
I, for one, feel awful if I don’t enough vegetables. Have you read The
Mood Cure, Kelly? She has the perspective that healthy fats, protein AND vegetables (and she means a lot of vegetables) are vital for health and mood. My experience has shown that I personally need all of the micronutrients found in vegetables. 🙂
There is no need to choose between healthy fats and vegetables. You can have them both. 😉
Primal Toad says
I agree. And we all need different levels of nutrients.
I tell people to focus on meat and veggies and figure out the rest themselves.
If we tell the world that one can eat as many quality meat and veggies as they want then it becomes a little easy. If they want fruit then they can experiment. Experiment with potatoes, dairy, etc.
Stanley Fishman says
Most of the fruits vegetables grown in this country, and in many other countries, are grown in depleted soil with artificial fertilizers. In addition, many of these vegetables receive heavy doses of pesticides, often several different pesticides. Such vegetables have far less nutrients than you would expect. In fact, they have tested factory oranges that had no detectable vitamin C.
Sally Fallon Morell is right when she questions the benefits of eating large amounts of nutrition poor fruits and vegetables.
Dr Weston A Price studied some native people in the interior of Canada, who were eating the same diet their ancestors ate. These people were so far north they had no fruits and no vegetables. Yet they were robust and healthy, They had no cavities and had excellent teeth. All they had to eat were the wild animals they hunted, mostly Moose. But they ate the entire animal, including all the organ meats.
That being said, truly natural fruits and vegetables are valuable in nutrition. But they are only a small part of my diet, which is centered around food from healthy animals, eating their natural diet.
Yes, the cost of quality animal foods is high, though there are ways of getting them at a much lower cost. But I think nothing is more important than the food we eat, and We make it the number one budgetary priority. Other areas are far less important, and we have learned to cut back on those so we can have the good animal food that makes us strong and healthy.
Erica says
Well said, Stanley Fishman! Many people in other countries spend 30% or more on their food budget, including many countries in Europe. They view food and nutrition to be of utmost importance no matter what their budget is like. I think we should all do the same!
“If you think eating organic is expensive, have you priced the cost of cancer lately?,” Joel Salatin.
jenna Food WIth Kid Appeal says
i wonder what % of oranges on the market have no detectable vitamin C. bag of chips also has no detectable vitamin C.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
I feel like she could have simple clarified in the video better. Insteade of simply saying “animal foods are better,” she could have said “Fruits and veggies are good for you but we don’t need as much of them as we think; nourishing animal foods are not eaten often enough. Combining them is the best idea — always have fat with your veggies, and don’t eat too much sweet fruit.” Is that so hard?
Magda says
I agree. Well said, Kate. I tend to go with the GAPS philosophy that 80 to 85% of your daily food should be protein, fat and veggies. Rest is fruit, nuts, honey (or other sweetener), grains (if you’re eating them), etc. Of course people with various health issues will need to adjust that. I’m coming to terms with the idea that everyone is different and making blanket statement in today’s world riddles with various health issues will just not work.
Kristi says
I think that most of us that read Kelly’s blog aren’t typical SAD eaters and that we’ll all understand. I also don’t like how everyone assumes the “average” person is stupid or too lazy to research things for themselves. Most people who are going online to watch the clips or read blogs are doing so to learn something. It’s not like these clips are on the news or anywhere the “average” American can watch them anyway. That’s just my two cents about it all. 🙂
Erica says
Great interview, Kelly! I think a mixed diet is a good way to go since Weston A. Price had witnessed that the most healthiest and robust people were those who were consuming foods from both plants and animals. However, I do believe that people can still be healthy if their diet is centered on mostly pasture based animal foods. This chart is a guideline to show people what foods they should be really concentrating on: https://www.nourishingourchildren.org/Pyramid.html
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
I love that chart, thanks Erica!
Erica says
Me, too! Notice that animals fats are located on the bottom with grains and veggies in the middle of the pyramid. This is a great chart for people of all ages to follow.
Leon @ Organically Thought says
Wow great conversation. I agree with everybody! Am I allowed to do that? We need good fats pasture fed animal proteins, and all the nutrients in plant based foods. I guess the way I want to put it is “macro” means we need more (quantity) of them, not we need them more (priority). I think the best thing said is avoid processed across the board. And to help do this learn and understand what it means to do this. Like yes milk is processed. Really juice is too since the fiber has been removed.