Are “chicken style pieces” with no chicken Real Food? Are “beef crumbles” with no beef good for us, even if they have no soy? What is “Quorn meat”?
Before you read further, please promise me you will use your good manners.
I know this issue tends to get people riled up, but remember we are all learning together. I’m looking forward to an interesting discussion in the comments, but I only ask you to be kind. 🙂
Now as you all know, I don’t believe that a vegetarian diet is the best way to eat for most people, but I also don’t think that what I believe matters much to someone who has made that decision for whatever reason. Yes, I wrote that post about the exhibit that had me all irritated, “Are Meat-Eaters Ruining the Earth?”, and I will share my thoughts here on the blog, but I certainly hope I do so respectfully. And remember, one of my closest friends was a vegetarian up until recently, so there’s no way I’m going to slam vegetarians. (And as long as they're getting some animal foods in like milk or eggs or fish, many can still thrive.)
Here’s the story…
The last couple weeks on Real Food Wednesday there have been some pretty bad recipes linked up that included high fructose corn syrup, trans fats and fake food colorings. As Lisa, one of the commenters there, said, “It’s obvious they just slapped up their link and never even read what kind of recipes you were looking for with this blog carnival.” (Even more irritating is that often they are also the ones with no link back…)
And then there were the entries from Kristi that I wasn’t sure what to think of…
Kristi is a sweet Mom who happens to be a vegetarian trying to please her family that includes a husband who is not a vegetarian, and “two undecided kids”.
After all that set up, now I’ll share with you an email exchange/comment trail between Kristi & I and others on the blog recently.
It started when a Real Food Wednesday commenter, Kelsey, questioned some of the “meat” in Kristi’s recipe that she linked to RFW…
- Kelsey: “I think the position of this website is that soy is not good for you, plus it’s probably GMO. Long story short, no fake chicken please!”
- Kristi: “Ah, I see now, that’s the unfermented kind. I think that would make tempeh the only definitely “OK” fake chicken (tempeh is fermented soy). As for the Quorn “chicken” I don’t know whether that’s in the GMO category. It’s mycoprotein, derived from mushrooms… Here we go: Quorn says (and I don’t think there’s a way they could lie directly about it) — ‘Are Quorn foods genetically modified? No. All Quorn products are made with GMO-free ingredients.’ So, that means for vegetarian ‘chicken’, Quorn cutlets and tenders would be OK, and for vegetarian ‘beef’, Quorn ground beef crumbles would be OK, at least if I’m understanding the real food rules correctly.”
- I emailed Kristi: “You're awesome to look into this like you have and because you CARE to make sure your ingredients are good! I hope you won't hate me, but I deleted your link when I thought it was not fermented soy…did you say the Quorn actually IS fermented soy?? If so, please link up again and I'll leave it there this time! I just want to be sure that my readers who are coming here looking for real food find what they expect. Hope you understand!!!” (Even if it was fermented, later I was thinking about how processed it must be, though, to resemble “meat”…)
- Kristi: “That's OK Kelly, I completely understand. It's a little confusing even to me and I guess I know a bit more than most about it. Here's the breakdown from what I can gather: Vegetarian beef: Quorn is Micoprotein, which is basically mushed up mushrooms (not soy at all)…I'm unclear on the whole process, but the company says it is not GMO. As for fermented soy fake beef products, the only one I know of for sure would be tempeh beef crumbles and some of the ground round stuff that's made of tempeh (which is the fermented soy). Vegetarian chicken: Quorn is OK, non-GMO, non-soy. And then you have a whole variety of tempeh “chicken” that is also OK by your rules as far as I understand them. The only fake chicken that would be not OK (I think) is probably the Morningstar Farms kind, which i believe is regular soy (and to be honest, tastes super gross and mushy too). I hope that helps. I didn't know all that about the non-fermented soy, so that's a big help to me, too. I'd heard a few of the hormone issues, but wasn't sure what to think of it all and had just been on a sort of ‘consume in moderation’ path. Thanks for the information.”
- Me: “You are so sweet and gracious. You know, if it's OK with you, I'd like to maybe post our conversation here on the blog sometime and get everyone's thoughts on all this. I love to do that as a way to gain more information because by the time everyone chimes in, we usually have a pretty well-rounded look at the issue when we're done. Just a warning though, this topic can get pretty heated…”
- Kristi: “No worries, I have pretty thick skin. 😉 Older siblings break you in quickly. Thanks again for the information, Kelly, and let me know if you need anything else. I'd be glad to answer any questions about mysterious vegetarian products if anyone has any. They can be daunting, I know.”
- After all this another comment came in…
- Melissa: “Just to clarify, Quorn is a highly processed fake meat derived from soil mold that has to be processed to make it safe to eat. Apparently metabolizing the food could create compounds that cause gout. Fun. Check out the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn.”
So here’s where I’d like you to jump in and share your thoughts. Real Food or no? You probably know where I fall on this one, but let’s hear what you think?
Kristi, thanks for your willingness to let me post our conversation. 🙂
Kristi Arnold began her career as a photojournalist in 2001. She has been the editor and all-around newspaperwoman at several community newspapers in the Midwest as well as the Atlanta metropolitan area. She began her career as a stay-at-home mom in 2009 and has since been striving to satisfy her non-vegetarian husband and child with meat substitutes and “fake” versions of family favorites. With the addition of her second daughter in 2010, the cooking critiques are sure to become even more complex over the next year. For each day in 2011, a different recipe will be attempted. The standard family recipe will be converted to a vegetarian-friendly version. From past experience, some of these conversions will be fantastic surprises, while others will be epic failures. Kristi’s blog: www.VeggieConverter.com.
Island Vittles says
Well you sure know how to get a conversation started! I noticed a real improvement in my health when I eliminated process foods. I’m not perfect (everyone has to cheat from time to time!), but the thought of some of those “meatless” “foods” makes me shudder. But then again, what do I know? One of my favourite cheats is Kraft Dinner, and that orange cheese can’t be good for me! Theresa
Viki says
That poor woman!
In the movie, they focus on corn, because Corn is King..(funny cotton used to be king) but when it comes to GMO seeds, soy is treated pretty much the same as corn. I felt sorry for the guy with the old seed cleaning machine that they put out of business in IN too. You are right, I couldn’t have watched the movie while pregnant.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
I did watch Food, Inc., recently in fact (I refused to watch it while pregnant because I knew it would give me more food issues and I needed to keep gaining weight). I think I might need to rewatch for more farming info. The chicken and meat stuff was pretty disturbing. I may be mixing my movies up, but that poor woman whose son died from a hamburger. How awful. Maybe I was so focused on that I missed the soy. Thanks for the information.
Viki says
Kristi, where to begin. It all comes down to $. and the Government had a hand in it.
In the past, farmers were allowed to save seeds, trade seeds, cross polinate plants to make better seeds…Now they mostly have to buy seed from the company. (It usually starts with an M.) The seed is Genetically Modified, it is Roundup ready so the farmer can spray weed killer on the fields and it will not kill the plant. What part of the corn and soy plant do humans eat…the seed…meaning genetically the same thing the farmer is planting is what we eat. It is a little scary…to me anyway.
From what I have read, due to pollen drift, even organic corn, popcorn, and soy may have some contamination at the genetic level. No matter what the label says.
If you haven’t watched Food Inc. Watch it, then do your own research. Always do your own research.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
Hi Viki,
I do love Indian food. I’ve never made my own paneer, but I should look into that. Thanks. It’s so odd to me that soy is GMO. I used to drive by what I affectionately called “tofu fields” all the time in the Midwest. I know they’re still there, I’ve seen them? Why do they bother with GMO with all that government subsidizing of tofu fields?
Viki says
Kristi,
Do you like Indian food? one of my veggie friends believes that it is the perfect way to eat. I don’t know about that, but it is good and you can spice it as you like it. She makes her own paneer cheese with the milk share from her CSA.
The only problem I have with tofu is that most soy is GMO now. I do like the femented idea though. Sounds tasty, except for the GMO.
The more I find out about what we have done to our food supply, the scarier food becomes. To think about what it may be doing to our kids just freaks me out. I mean, I remember when you couldn’t find lowfat milk in school and now people act like Whole milk is poison and you can’t find it in schools. (whole nother subject)
I’ll head over to your blog today to check it out. Good luck with your challenge to yourself.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
Hi Viki,
Yes, of course, my husband helps in the kitchen. What I call our “dinner” is what I make while he’s at work and he takes to work the next day. But, he does cook our lunches and does most of the cleanup. As for the add meat to the meal bit, yes, we do that a lot. It just happens that the post I linked was one of the dinners we share and it is my “challenge” to myself for the year to make one meal a day that we will both enjoy.
I get plenty of protein and B12, thanks for asking. 🙂 I take B12 supplements to be sure. But the protein in vegetables just isn’t enough for my daily quota while nursing. Feeding a nearly 20-pound baby takes a lot of fuel. I find if I just eat veggies and carbs I get sickly. I did try to eat meat for some time. I tried beef and chicken and, again, we just end up throwing food away when I do that because I just don’t like it and my husband can’t eat the whole thing by myself.
I’m not vegan, I do eat eggs and other dairy. I even ate some bacon and steak when I was pregnant, because I craved it. It’s not philosophical, it’s just my choice. I consider it a “bonus” that I don’t eat animals, but it would be awfully hypocritical of me to focus on that when I wear leather and eat plenty of things with animal byproducts (like jell-o).
The bottom line, I think, is for me, I try to eat whole foods as often as possible and I try to avoid meats as often as possible. I am perfect in neither of these attempts. For me, choosing “fake meat” is a sacrifice of principle that I’m willing to make in order to make for a happier dinner for my family. If I were just feeding myself, I’d eat baked fermented tofu over brown rice with black beans every day. But, I make sacrifices for my family. I’m OK with it. To us, it’s real food. But, understanding that, to most it’s not, I would highlight different substitutes in this forum. Such as the lentil/brown rice “beef.”
That’s just not feasible for us to use every day. But, it’s all a process and each day we get nearer to our goals of healthier eating. Thanks for all the input.
Viki says
If it is that processed I don’t call it Real. I do find it interesting that it is made from fungus. I have tasted Quorn products before I swore off processed foods and didn’t have a problem with them.
Kristi, is there any reason why your husband can’t help you in the kitchen?
I haven’t checked out your blog yet. So I don’t know if it is because you are blogging about what you are making everyday or what?
I have many friends who are living the veggie lifestyle who are married to guys who like their beef and chicken. I can remember one grilling his steak on the grill in the winter in Alaska (on the deck). His wife had a variety of veggies ready to go and they lived quite happily, he cooked his meat, she ate her beans or whatever. (Much simplier now with an inside grill)
If you look at a can or a frozen package of veg. (not that those are the best ways to get your food, fresh is best) most even a can of tomatos has some protein in it. I really don’t think it is that hard for a person to get their daily quota.
What really is important is to make sure you are getting enough B12, enough omega 3 oils and other healthy fats. Are you Ovolacto or do you abstain from eggs and dairy?
My daughter will not eat beef or lamb. Refuses even grass fed. Will eat chicken and Wild caught Salmon. We eat a few meals a week that are meat free, but we don’t use substitute meats.
Amanda Dittlinger says
Abaddon- While what you posted was very interesting, I think it’s a bit off topic since the thread was talking about vegetarian fake meats, not fake meat in general, or maybe I misunderstood.
I’ve been following the post since it got posted early yesterday and have been very interested in what everyone says! I’m not, and never was, a vegetarian; but back in the days when I was on Weight Watchers I’d use fake vegetarian meats to be lower-calorie and low fat. Of course, I ate Morning Star since it was in my grocery store and had no idea about GM or Soy dangers or any of the like. I did loose weight on Weight Watchers, but at what cost? I was tired, cranky and hungry ALL the time! I’m so glad I found NT and am learning every day about real foods and what nourishes our bodies.
I agree with the posters that say if you can make it in your kitchen then it is real food, to the most part. Can you believe you can actually buy High Fructose Corn Syrup at my local “health” store? So technically I could add the stuff right to my own kitchen! BLAH.
As for meat substitutes, I think if you are eating a meat substitute you make in your own kitchen out of beans, lentils or the like then enjoy it as it is. I used to make turkey burgers (when I was on WW) I never kidded myself that they were beef burgers, but I enjoyed the flavor of the turkey itself. That’s my two cents!
Abaddon says
Amanda Dittlinger
The purpose of my postings are to highlight the dangers of what is taking place by the food cartels, and for people to check it out for themselves. This includes everything in the food chain. Even weight watchers “low calorie” meals are about as healthy as a cyanide sandwich. Read the ingredients and their origins for yourself folks. It is obvious that those at weight watchers do not, and are just corporate puppets of the food giants, possibly financed by them!
It is more than “fake” meat, much more, for the main stream media have cultivated a “eating” and cooking mentality that fits in with the corporate food chains interests. Keep in mind the main stream media are making billions from advertising by these food giants, and they are certainly not going to bite the hand that feeds them, even if it is clear that millions of people are suffering because of the result of eating corporate food. When money is concerned, and we are talking big bucks here, people will and are sacrificed on the alter of greed. Money is God, you are just a mortal. Anywhere you look in this world, all the problems that is has, all you have to do is follow the money, and then you will see who is behind it. Keep well.
KitchenKop says
Abaddon,
My only concern about your comments above is that you’re copying such a sizable chunk of info from other sites like Mercola. Anything more than a paragraph or two should be paraphrased by you or just add a link so we can read more there. I don’t want Mercola on me about copyright issues!
Thanks, Kelly
Abaddon says
THE CORPORATE FRANKENSTEIN FOOD CARTEL ARE GOING TO POISON YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. THEY HAVE ALREADY PASSED LAWS TO CONTROL “ALL” OUR “CHOICES.”
Codex Alimentarius is now on the verge of its long-time goal of giving control of vitamins, supplements and food to the Illuminati corporations – with much reduced dosages – and putting the independents out of business.
They are doing this through the technique used by the Rockefeller family to hijack ‘health care’ in the United States and then worldwide – a system of licencing. The scam is simple: you introduce licences for something and then anyone who wants to do that ‘something’ must do it within your ‘guidelines’ (limits and restrictions) or they don’t get a licence and so cannot practice.
And if you want to stop certain people doing that ‘something’ you make the requirements to get a licence so complex and costly that you are, in effect, denying them the right to practice or produce.
They use the licencing technique throughout society to impose control and nowhere more so than in what passes for ‘medicine’. A doctor needs a licence to practice and if they use healing methods that work, but are not recognised by the arbiters of the licence (ultimately Big Pharma) they lose their licence and are ‘struck off’.
The licencing noose is also being used ever more widely in alternative and complimentary medicine to install centralised control and dictatorship by a self-appointed authority and the major corporations have been buying up health store chains for years to kidnap the industry …
… This week the UK Independent (yeah, right) newspaper reported that ‘hundreds of herbal medicinal products will be banned from sale in Britain next year under what campaigners say is a “discriminatory and disproportionate” European law’.
How are they going to do it? Licensing.
SO MUCH FOR CHOICE, DEMOCRACY, AND FREEDOM. WAKE UP PEOPLE. BIG BROTHER HAS JUST GOTTEN BIGGER.
Abaddon says
There’s meat and there’s corporate meat, please read on.
There’s no doubt about it. Processed food like that from McDonald’s is just not part of a healthful diet
Abaddon says
Biologist Arpad Pusztai had more than 300 articles and 12 books to his credit and was the world’s top expert in his field.
But when he accidentally discovered that genetically modified (GM) foods are dangerous, he became the biotech industry’s bad-boy poster child, setting an example for other scientists thinking about blowing the whistle.
In the early 1990s, Dr. Pusztai was awarded a $3 million grant by the UK government to design the system for safety testing genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
His team included more than 20 scientists working at three facilities, including the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen, Scotland, the top nutritional research lab in the UK, and his employer for the previous 35 years.
The results of Pusztai’s work were supposed to become the required testing protocols for all of Europe. But when he fed supposedly harmless GM potatoes to rats, things didn’t go as planned.
Within just 10 days, the animals developed potentially pre-cancerous cell growth, smaller brains, livers, and testicles, partially atrophied livers, and damaged immune systems. Moreover, the cause was almost certainly side effects from the process of genetic engineering itself. In other words, the GM foods on the market, which are created from the same process, might have similar affects on humans.
With permission from his director, Pusztai was interviewed on TV and expressed his concerns about GM foods. He became a hero at his institute — for two days.
Then came the phone calls from the pro-GMO prime minister’s office to the institute’s director. The next morning, Pusztai was fired. He was silenced with threats of a lawsuit, his team was dismantled, and the protocols never implemented. His Institute, the biotech industry, and the UK government, together launched a smear campaign to destroy Pusztai’s reputation.
Eventually, an invitation to speak before Parliament lifted his gag order and his research was published in the prestigious Lancet. No similar in-depth studies have yet tested the GM foods eaten every day by Americans.
Mercola.com
Hilary says
Amanda Dittlinger says
Amy L- You are right. Yeast Extract is MSG: https://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
Amy L says
I pretty sure that ‘yeast extract’ listed in your ‘meat’ ingredients is one of the many names MSG hides under.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
I agree with the others, that if you can make it in your own kitchen, it’s real food. If it’s an industrial process, then it’s not. For example, although kombucha is “weird,” I can certainly make it in my own kitchen! I can make skim milk, even (although I don’t). I can’t make “fat free half&half” (that continues to puzzle me!).
I get that some people prefer not to eat meat, or much meat. That’s fine. But I do not understand the fake substitutes at all. Wouldn’t we all agree that meat raised on pasture is far healthier than any substitute? If you want to eat meat, then just eat it (good meat). If you don’t, then don’t. Don’t try to find substitutes.
But this behavior doesn’t only bother me in vegetarians. It bothers me when gluten-free people just find lots of other grains/starches to eat instead of focusing more on other food groups, or dairy-free people find fake cheese and fake butter, etc. If you don’t want to or can’t eat a particular food group, then just don’t. Don’t go searching for some substitute. To resemble the missing group, most are highly processed and largely soy-based! I understand this isn’t, but…I am still highly wary, just like I am of the “Daiya cheese” I’ve heard of. Not real food. No.
Karla says
My problem with these products (in addition to the obvious processing) is if you want to be vegetarian – why do you need “chicken-like” products? Either eat the chicken or just eat plant foods, but don’t create crazy, processed meat-like products and pawn them off as health food because they don’t contain meat.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
I don’t know about the MSG, if it’s in there, it isn’t listed on the ingredients. But, I think the universe has spoken (OK, I’m not fruity, I just think it’s a powerful coincidence really). I got an email today from Jessica of WayFare food (they make vegan “dairy” products). She follows my blog and sent me some WayFare recipes as well as one of her own. It is a vegan ground meat that is made from brown rice, green lentils and steak seasoning. What? I can make it myself in my kitchen? Oh my! So, long story short, I might go that route for the ground “beef” to further my whole foods attempt. That still leaves me searching for a “real food” chicken substitute, but it’s a start.
WordVixen says
Just as a heads up, yeast extract and “spices” usually mean MSG, or something that behaves very like it (in other words, still an excito-toxin). I’ve heard that carrageenan turns into MSG in your body as well, and I have had a milder version of an MSG headache after consuming it. It can take up to 48 hours after consuming MSG to have a noticeable reaction- mine usually come 12-18 hours after having it.
That said, you’d be hard pressed to find a sausage in the grocery store that doesn’t have something that falls into that category whether it’s real meat or “meat”.
Paula Runyan says
Kristi,
Anytime I see a product that has added vital wheat gluten in it, that scares me.
There is a reason Celiacs disease is growing so fast in the US. Everywhere you look, food has added wheat gluten.
It is derived from Wheat, and its not soaked, sprouted or fermented.
Every time vital wheat gluten is consumed, whether or not a reaction is noticeable, it is doing damage to the gut.
My personal feeling on this is, if a meat is being desired by the body, then that natural instinct should be followed and not placated by a fake.
Tricking the brain is not healthy to the body.
Also, I am curious. The “chicken” for example. Flavors are added. MSG?
Paula
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
Yeah, I know the gluten thing. I’m not allergic myself, but I have friends who are or whose children are. Here’s the thing. If you can’t have soy or meat, you’re going to pretty much be out of “meat” if you can’t have gluten. Option D..or E…whichever it is would basically mean all you could have are vegetables. Which is fine, if you don’t need much protein. Mushrooms can be very “meaty” that’s just not the option my family’s choosing. But, we do a lot of beans and bean-molded meats (e.g. I make black bean burgers).
Hilary says
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
Ha! Funny. Yeah, I’ve thought about trying to go completely “whole foods” without ingredients lists. I’m trying to increase the amount in my diet at the moment…we’re getting better at least. But alas we are still eating our “meat” for now. I’m incorporating more seitan and “field grain” meat in to try and phase out anything too crazy. But, it’s a long road. I’m sure once the kids are older and they have more of a say in the dinner plans, I may have to go back to more of the buffet-style dinners (add your own “meat” or meat). Tacos were always great for that.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
We do that a lot actually. And I actually haven’t used Quorn all week. I’ve been hooked on Field Roast this week. It’s a grain meat. But, it probably fits your definition of processed food. Then again, so do a lot of meat products.
Here’s the sausage ingredient list. Ingredients (Italian): Filtered water, wheat protein (vital gluten flour), expeller pressed, high oleic safflower oil, Yakima Valley red wine, eggplant, onions, yeast extract, fresh garlic, barley malt powder, onion powder, red bell pepper, fennel seed, granulated garlic, spices and salt.
Passes my personal test of, can I pronounce it and do I know what it is. But, if you’re into whole foods, then nope, it fails. Just like real sausage. And bread for that matter. White bread, now that has a scary ingredient list sometimes.
RealFoodMama says
In my opinion the whole concept behind the Real Food movement is to avoid processed foods, excessive chemicals, and those things which you can’t make from scratch at home.
Fake meat, regardless of it’s potential non-GMO status, it’s avoidance of soy, or it’s minimal ingredient list, is processed food. Period. Ergo, it is not real food under any circumstances in my opinion.
While I sympathize with the original posters desire to avoid making two dinners and deciding instead to serve Quorn as part of the meal, perhaps she should rethink that and try to plan meals that include a meat she can opt out of. Like a nice dinner of winter squash, greens, barley and then chicken sausage for the carnivores?
Relying on mass produced, processed foods is never a good idea regardless of the intentions of the cook.
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
I did hear that, they’re attributing it to mold allergies in some cases. I guess it’s like any food, some people can’t digest it or are allergic. I’m so sorry that happened to you. If you’re a vegetarian, maybe you could try Field Roast…it’s vegan and soy-free as well (and not mycoprotein). I think Quorn came to the U.S. in 1994, but it’s been around in the U.K. since 1985…they’re patent just ran out. So, if you are allergic/sensitive, beware that other companies may start putting out mycoprotein next (2011) year since the patent in the U.K. expired in 2010.
Hilary says
Quorn first entered the human diet in 1994. It seems a bit early yet to say whether or not it’s good for you.
What I do know is that I’m blessed with a cast-iron, eat-anything digestive system – probably something to do with my parents’ ‘you don’t have to like it, you just have to eat it’ school of good manners – and food never makes me ill. Quorn does, every time.
And it turns out that in just having an unpleasant night afterwards, I get off lightly. Some people are hospitalised –
https://cspinet.org/quorn/
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
I really like that definition of real food …food you could possibly make in your own kitchen. But, in that case, tofu (regular soy) would be in and I could make it from straight soybeans (I’ve actually done that before, it’s kinda fun). But I think the hormone thing would still be there? I’m not sure, Kelly maybe you know. But regardless, yeah, I do this mainly because I like veggies and my husband and toddler like meat. While I could just let him have meat, like Lori suggests, (and we often do that for lunches and such), making two different dinners for my family is just not something I have the time or energy to do with two kids under 2. Great discussion.
Jenny says
I think there is a difference between real food and nutrient dense, healthy food.
Tofu is traditional, but the “whole” tradition includes only eating it with fish HEAD broth to balance the highly estrogenic nature of soy. Tofu and other soy products have been taken out of context AND the world we live in is NOT the same a our ancestors. Our ancestors didn’t have to cope with the stress of population density, smog, high power lines, x-rays, nutrient robbed soils, BPA, GMO’s dioxins and so on. Our ancestors were able to handle a great variety of foods that we can’t today. IMO.
Abaddon says
What I forgot to add to my other comment, is that those who are in control of the food supply are going to take even more control over what we eat or drink with their greedy corporate food assassins. Take note that everything they touch they kill, people are eating DEAD FOOD. Guess what that does to us? If you can, you should grow your own food, or find those who care like you about what they eat, and buy from them. I recommend you look at http://www.NaturalNews.com or subscribe to Mercola.com
Lori says
Okay, I’ll try and be polite about my response. Yesterday, my husband and I were in the grocery store and I saw the fake meat, so it’s interesting that you are posting this now. My comment then as is my comment now is that I don’t understand why vegetarians need fake meat! If you don’t like meat, then don’t eat it. I see, Kristi, that you are really doing this for your husband. Well, maybe he just needs real meat. I see that there are a few ways of looking at this product, but it’s still highly processed, and in my book probably shouldn’t be eaten. Interesting topic.
Belinda @zomppa says
What a great discussion! I just am putting final touches on an article about what “real” food is and going to have to link back to you! I think the commentors here are onto something – it really depends on how you define what food is – real or fake. Those words have become so confusing. Like Michael Pollan says, it is nutrition? Foodstuffs? Food science? The research I’ve done about soy in the U.S. is quite mixed. Soy has been eaten for generations and generations in many Asian countries, but the process of fermentation does something to the soy that doesn’t cause the issues it seems to here with the processed soy. Soy sauce I can do, but for some reason, I am allergic to soy in the U.S. The issue of meat eating is one that I constantly raise too…I am a meat eater, with many vegetarian near and dear, and I concur with your previous article. I suppose if one went from meat eating to not, it is normal to want the flavor without the meat still? Such a great discussion. Thanks for sharing. Happy New year!
Abaddon says
“Normal” and “natural” are shrouded in a cloud of corporate media propaganda that has made the abnormal and unnatural acceptable. Take a look around you and you will see the reality of “their” corporate food. They take the natural and then, homogenise it, sterilise it, pasteurise it, irradiate it, add over 3,000, yes 3,000 “legal” additives to it, this is after they have genetically modified our food in its seed form, then they plant it on an already saturated chemically sodden land, and then proceed to spray it several times during its growth cycle. Then it it taken to one of their auschwitz food processing factories where it is subjected to further processing with micro waves, radiation, chemicals, additives, and wrapped in a poisonous plastic wrapper which leeches more dangerous toxins into our food. Then when you think, nothing more surely, they now spray many of these foods with more chemicals just before they put them on display to give them longer shelf life.
Then they advertise them as “low in fat” “healthy” “good for the heart” “low in salt” with a bronzed male and female on the cover running through a field of golden corn on a california day.
What staggering, blatant, lying propaganda by a government, and media, and business companies in deceiving the masses, and why do they get away with it, because the masses are extremely gullible, they have rightly been called “sheeple.” When reality shows an epidemic of obesity, diabetes, asthma’s, cancers,. Cancer has increased 50 fold in as many decades, look at athritis, rheumatism, bone diseases, a pandemic of cancers now even among children. We have the sickest society ever known, virtually everybody is on some form of medication, the youth are plagued with diseases unheard of in previous generations. The evidence is overwhelming that society is being poisoned either by design or by ignorance. The water is polluted by to many chemicals to name, as is the food. The end result though, is there for all to see. As one man said, the most dangerous words you will ever hear, are, “I’m from the government, I’m here to help.” People have stopped thinking for themselves, they listen to the main stream media as though it was the voice of God, when it has proven to be the very opposite. Each individual is responsible for what he and his family eats and drinks, the source of it, whats in it. Do not hand that life and death responsibilty over to others, especially the government and their buddies the corporate food concentration camp factory farm owners.
“THEY” don’t eat corporate food, or drink tap water, the queen has her own organic farms, she drinks RAW MILK, they KNOW. It is time WE followed their example.
Renae says
If your great grandmother would recognize it as food, then it would qualify as REAL food. A quick glance at the ingredient list will reveal if there are chemicals, preservatives, and other ‘scientific experiments’ added to the food you are chosing to eat. Also, be aware that meat purchased in the stores may contain many chemicals and growth hormones as well. Bottom line is our food source is FULL of chemicals and preservatives and ingredients that we can’t even pronounce let alone know what they actually are!
Theresa says
I was briefly a vegetarian (before I read nourishing traditions… which I sought out because I personally felt my body needed meat, but I wanted to eat “healthy”)
I could never get over the fake meat stuff. Spicy bean patties, yes please! fake burgers? No thanks! I just, I gag when I think of them.
I have the same definition as you do Jenny… if I can somehow make it, it is “real food”
I do think a person could do “real food” and be veggie, in fact I have a friend who does it (she eats eggs and fish, and she makes an exception for chicken stock, but does not eat the meat.) She gets really creative with beans and grains… also, lots and lots of veggies.
I, personally, have always wanted to eat the way I am eating now, and never knew I could (well, we just gave up grains to get this pesky weight off… we will add it back in slowly once we finish.) I could not be happier eating my delicious roast chickens, that are pastured and treated well and not damaging the earth.
I love you guys and this community!
Jenny says
It is MY belief that it’s real food if you could duplicate it in your own kitchen, fake food if it requires industrial processing. Seitan (wheat gluten) can be made at home. It’s a long process, but do able. I don’t eat it, but I would consider it a real food. Quorn sounds like fake food to me. Cooking with real mushrooms would be better…and be a kinda chewy like meat, kinda sorta.
Lee says
Thanks for your input, Kristi. I discovered Quorn a few years ago when I went pescetarian for Lent. DH went along for the ride, but he still wanted something that was “meaty”, in his words. I found Quorn products to be a great substitute for actual meat on the nights we were sick of beans and/or fish. I absolutely appreciated the soy-free option of Quorn, since I am hypothyroid and avoid unfermented soy at all costs. I haven’t eaten much of it since, but I have recommended it to friends and family who are are veg*n to some extent, or follow Kosher laws re: food.
I realize that many folks will immediately write off the product because it is processed. However, I feel that it is a sensible alternative to the ubiquitous soy or gluten-laden meat substitutes that are out there nowadays. The strict black and white approach to food is what ultimately causes us to fall off the wagon into bad habits; perfectionism is an extraordinarily unhealthy habit which can cause harm to many more than it helps.
All this to say – if you have done the research and feel that it is the right choice for you and your family, then go for it.
Ren says
“A fungus called Fusarium venenatum is the main source of mycoprotein. The fungus is grown in vats using glucose syrup as food. This Fusarium sp. respires aerobically, so for it to grow at an optimum rate, it is supplied with oxygen. To make protein, nitrogen (in the form of ammonia) is added, and vitamins and minerals are needed to support growth. The vat is kept at a constant temperature, also optimized for growth; The fungus can double its mass every five hours.
The fermentation vat is filled with the growth medium, and then inoculated with the mold. When the desired amount of mycoprotein has been created, the growth medium is drawn off from a tap at the bottom of the fermenter. The mycoprotein is separated and purified. It is a pale yellow solid with a faint taste of mushrooms. Different flavours and tastes can be added to the mycoprotein to add variety.”
Kristi @ Veggie Converter says
Hello all,
Trouble-stirring vegetarian here. 😉 haha. I actually, like you Kelly, am against vegetarians who try to push their agenda on omnivores. People have been eating meat for centuries, back off. I mean, I’m married to one, I like him. I actually had someone comment on my blog that we should bind together as vegetarians to convince meat-eaters to stop destroying the environment by eating meat. I politely informed her that I do not push my beliefs on anyone else and that sustainable agriculture and food is actually the solution to the problem she presented.
But anyway, I looked at that Quorn site, I hadn’t heard that it was super-processed before (though of course, all fake meats are processed to some level). Maybe I’m missing something. What I read is it’s mold from the soil check, it’s a mushroom, which is fungus, like all other mushrooms it’s a mold from soil originally…that’s real food). So then, what do they do to make it, um, “chickeny”?
Well, they grow the mold, feed it, then heat-treat it. OK, I’m all right with that. Then they bind it with egg goo and meaty-texturize it. Weird, but I’m still OK. The texturizing gives “giit some of the grained character of meat, and pressed either into a mince resembling ground beef; forms resembling chicken breasts, meatballs, and turkey roasts; or chunks resembling diced chicken breast.”
We probably have different definitions of real food, that’s inevitable. As a vegetarian with an omnivore, meat-loving husband, our definitions of real differ. I just don’t like meat, don’t like the taste or the texture. So part of me rebels even against the fake stuff. But, it’s just different enough that I like it and just similar enough that my husband does, too. If it were up to me, we’d eat tempeh and meat-free all day. He’d choose steak and hot dogs.
So, bottom line, yes, I think, for us, it’s “real food.” It’s low on chemical processing, high on good ingredients (protein for me is super important as a recently pregnant and now nursing mom). But, for you, it may be “fake.” Everyone’s definition likely varies in numerous degrees.
I’m sure we’ll all enjoy the debate. I’m excited to hear what everyone thinks!