Genetically Modified Bread Yeast & My Sourdough Bread Struggles

That’s good to know about the yeast – although not good to know, yanno?

I recently bought some dehydrated sourdough starter from the same source, but I haven’t opened the package yet. I’m waiting for you to perfect the technique! No, that’s not true. I’m waiting for something to happen and be done with. I don’t want to learn to tend sourdough starter during.

I can’t wait to try it out, though!!

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Kelly, I’ve been trying to make sourdough from my own starter for years. I’ve mostly had flops and failures. I think I’m going to order some starter from the source you listed and give it another try. Thanks for the inspiration!

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Hey, I’ve had the same struggles with bread. Wanting a recipe for homemade bread that we can use for sandwiches, but not finding it. I made my own sourdough starter (following the technique on Laura’s Heavenly Homemaker blog) and after a few tries that weren’t so great– it’s working extremely well now! I understand that it takes time for the starter to really take off, and I’m learning little tricks about what works and what doesn’t. I also use a bread recipe that includes eggs and milk. Now that I think about it, I can’t remember which site I got that from. I’ll look and then let you know where it is.

Good luck!

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Sourdough bread has been my culinary nemesis – looking (and tasting) just like yours above. First I thought my yeast was dead; then I thought my oven was flawed…and so on. The recipe I love the most is with rye flour. What type did you use? Please keep us posted on your progress. I count on you to be our version of “America’s Test Kitchen.” Thanks and good luck!!

Karen’s last blog post..Green Eggs and Mom

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It sounds like the starter to me, too.

I’ve only been making sourdough breads for about a year with a starter I created from flour and water only – shipping one to Sri Lanka would have been problematic at best. I use no yeast. My first breads were on the flat side – you know, like dwarf bread. But as the starter matured, it got better. Nice, decently fluffy breads after a month or two.

Not all of them turn out that way, but that’s due more to my impatience or bad scheduling in waiting for them to rise more so than anything else – sourdough breads take longer to rise. I can’t miss sleep just to get fluffier bread. So for me, it’s more of trying to get down the timing better than anything else.

By the way, mine is not at all sour – not all are. Mine is great for any kind of bread, including sweet breads and cinnamon buns and the like.

Back to your starter. It could be that it just needs more adjustment time, not that it’s necessarily bad. If it was dried, if you’re using different types of flours, if it’s in a different sort of environment (wildly different temperatures, for example), that could account for it being off. I’ve read that it can take a couple or so weeks for the starter to adjust & get back to full speed. Or it could be that you’re not refreshing your starter before using it (that bit of instruction wasn’t on any of the recipes I saw) and/or not waiting for it to be ready, ie, it hasn’t doubled or more in volume yet. It could be that your starter is still too immature if you started it yourself. It could be that the water you’re using has chlorine or minerals or such in it – better to use stood water or bottled water.

Without knowing your full routine and the recipe, it’s difficult to tell, but that should get you started with some ideas anyway.

Laurie Ashton Farook’s last blog post..Witch’s Brew, also known as Paspanguwa

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Now THAT’s a good picture! I had to laugh when I saw it, but I understand the frustration of carefully following the instructions, lovingly forming that loaf with anticipation of a beautifully risen gorgeous masterpiece coming out of the oven, only to discover a flop. What a disappointment! But it does sound like it’s something that gets better with each try. I’m hopeful, at least. I’ve got a homemade starter going, white whole wheat flour and pineapple juice. It’s fermenting but it’s not exactly going wild with bubbles. Just enough to tell that it’s working a little. It’s difficult too, because the only even slightly warm place in my house is the area on my desk right over my computer tower. But the warmth is consistent though. Today is supposed to be the day to actually start the bread. We’ll see how it goes.

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I grew my own starter. I had it on the (open)window sil when the weather wasn’t 1 million degrees outside like it is now. I’ve made both pancakes and bread with it each week. I find that my sourdough bread does much better when I shape the loaf into a ball and let it do it’s second rise. The ones I baked in the loaf pans were flat and dense and just gross. I also do 3 rises, 1 rise overnight, punch down in the morning and shape into ball, let rise again, punch down, shape into ball and I put a bowl over it so it doesn’t spread. Then after that’s risen, I bake it. It’s got plenty of air bubbles.

I do find it pleasantly sour. My kids notice it more than I do.

Motherhen68’s last blog post..Wonderful Mother’s Day

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Just wanted to add a wonderful sourdough site: http://www.sourdoughhome.com/ Now, he doesn’t specialise in wholemeal or stone-ground, or GM-free or anything like that. He specialises in BREAD, especially sourdough. He has instructions for making your own starter, but doesn’t recommend that until your are more experienced.

Emma’s last blog post..Scheduling 3 children

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Remember, Jack told you it was your starter!

I just got my new sourdough starters from http://www.culturesforhealth.com

Can’t wait to start baking!

CHEESESLAVE’s last blog post..How to Make Homemade Laundry Detergent

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I struggled with sourdough for a year before getting the process straightened out. I learned from a woman who spent 6 years living off the land on a mountain top with her family. One of her favorite resources was the Encyclopedia of Country Living. The recipes in that book and her expertise (she baked nothing but sourdough for those years) enabled me to produce this wonderful, sandwich-able, high-rise bread which my family loves and some have called the best bread they have ever tasted.

Having struggled with Sally’s recipe in NT, I found out there were two things I was doing wrong in blindly following it. The first: I was going according to time periods instead of observing the starter. (You don’t have to buy a starter,BTW. In fact, after you’ve used it once it won’t be the same starter, having picked up whatever yeast is in the air of your kitchen.) What my friend told me was “Don’t use it if it looks like this, and do use it if it looks like that.” You should use it only if it is full of bubbles. This look means it is active and feeding and will devour the flour you add to it, producing air bubbles leading to a good rise.

The other thing I have not seen mentioned in any other recipe–and it is so crucial! The loaf must be sealed off from the air in order to rise. If it gets any kind of crust on it it will not rise. Encyclopedia of Country Living has the only recipe I have found that specifically tells you to seal the loaf pans with plastic wrap. (It also advises you to use plastic wrap with five holes only poked in it to culture the starter.)

When sourdough rises a long time it gets more sour. To my taste it is better when it rises in the loaf for about 2 hours. The key to keeping the rise time down is not letting the dough lose the heat it has built up rising in the lump overnight. (I set my whole wheat flour in a bowl to soak in buttermilk and water and starter overnight by the woodstove in winter and in my gas oven in the summer with only the pilot flame on. Perfect temperature.) You should work fast, adding the unbleached flour (I have not yet advanced to complete whole grains–mine is about half and half, what Sally calls “cheater’s bread”), salt, sweetener,a little baking soda, and lard, kneading it and quickly putting it back in the warm place in the loaf pans. If it gets cold, it could take many hours to rise.

Hope this helps someone. My mission is to apply this same technique to all whole grain.

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Kelly, When I was diagnosed gluten intolerant 5 years ago I started trying to figure out how to make real bread that I could eat. The cool part is that I found that it is WAY EASIER than you would believe. I just got my recipe posted yesterday, its my first one! I’m new to this computer stuff, how do you post a link?, anyway here is the site.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5018402_make-bread-really-trying-kneading.html
You don’t have to knead or use a mixer, even a Bosch! I own one but I don’t need it to make awesome, soft, delicious bread. And you don’t use any yeast either, its real Sourdough!

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Look at this video. It looks so easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1D23yFkNiA&feature=related

The exact recipe was written in their latest magazine, so it is probably available on their website.
http://rubies.articledirectoree.com/

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Hello, I don’t have time to read all the comments to see if this is a repeat, but I’ve been able to make a great, light sourdough in my bread machine. I use 2 cups of healthy, bubbly starter, a cup of white flour, a cup of red wheat flour, half cup of rye, and a cup and a half of spelt flour, 3/4 to 1 cup water, and 2 t salt. I knead it in the bread machine and add some flour if it’s too sticky, then I reset for cook only, let the dough sit in the machine all night or all day to rise, and push cook. It has the best flavor of any combination I’ve tried and is light and airy! In fact, it rises so well I might try phasing out the white flour.

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Kelly,
Have you ever tried Kimi Harris’s Everyday Sourdough Bread recipe on The Nourishing Gourmet? BTW, I love your blog!! Any ideas on what to do about grandparents who only have eyes for McDonald’s when it comes to feeding my children during visits?
Jennifer
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2009/01/669.html

Jennifer’s last blog post..Goooood advice!

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One of the secerts of sour dough bread is the method used to make it rise. There are several kinds of sour starters from one that uses yeast, one with white flour, white and wheat flour, all whole wheat flour, and a rye starter. I measure out the starter I need. I then feed the starter for the next day and let it stay at room temp for eight hours before refrigerating for use the next day. Let the dough rise once then punch down and form into round or long loafs. Cover with a clean towel, place on cornmeal and put into the refrigerator for the next day. Take out of the refrigerator to warn up and finish raising. Cut an X or a couple of shashes on top. Egg wash and bake. A steam oven Will create a great crust but since most of us don,t have one put a pan of water in the oven before baking. starting the oven at 450 for the first 15 minutes then turning the oven down to 400 to finish will also give a nice crust too. Yes I admit I am a professional baker.

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I recommend the cookbook by The Cheese Board Collective (a berkeley restaurant/collective that has been producing artisanal food since long before it got popular). Their starter recipe (which kicks things off with stone-ground rye flour, although the final product has no rye taste) works VERY WELL. I can produce an incredible loaf following their directions (both for starter and for bread). I live in LA, and I actually prefer my bread to Bezian’s! That’s because mine is not very sour, while Bezian’s is very sour. Sourdough need not be sour, actually–in Europe it’s considered a sign of laziness on the part of the baker! (I learned that from “Local Breads,” a great bread cookbook by an artisanal baker). Anyway, grab the Cheese Board book from your local library and give it a try. I think you’ll be very pleased.

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Oh Look! Someone already referred my sandwich loaf to you! Have you tried it yet? We like it for a whole wheat sourdough loaf, but it is important to eat it within about four days as it starts to get a bit crumbly after that. . . .

I also wanted to refer you to this link. I’ve been using their technique to make perfect sourdough boules recently. I don’t have a banetton, but simply line a colander with a dishcloth and line the dishcloth with flour to mimic the banneton. It seems to work! I also replace 1 cup of white flour with whole wheat, though this is not a technically whole grain bread recipe:
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=27634

Here’s my notes on making it from those instructions:
http://sarahs-musings.blogspot.com/2009/02/sourdough-success.html

Also, have you considered making something like a foccacia to split open lengthwise for making sandwiches? Mine is awesome. If I do say so myself.
http://sarahs-musings.blogspot.com/2008/10/sourdough-focaccia.html

Anyway, good luck with your sourdough progress!

Best,
Sarah

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Also, you can substitute 1/4 cup sourdough for the 1/4 teaspoon yeast in that no-knead bread. Eric at Breadtopia.com has lots of videos of his breadmaking, and this no-knead is one of them. Although it is not a high-rising loaf; it’s just a good loaf to go with dinner or something. I’m still looking for a good sandwich bread myself. Looks like a lot of good info here to try.

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SAF is instant yeast, I just checked. My husband won’t give up traditional sandwich bread so I compromise by soaking the dough overnight with whey and using 1/2 the yeast my recipe calls for. It takes a little longer to rise but I figure it’s 1/2 as bad for us.

Jenny is probably not still reading this thread but I was curious if her two sourdough starters have stayed true or if they’ve crossed or morphed in a new environment. That is the problem that I always have. SF sourdough is only SF in SF, it changes when you bring it to a new climate.

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