Today Ann Marie Michaels, a.k.a. CHEESESLAVE, weighs in on the issue of whether or not we should shop at Whole Foods Market… This issue has really gotten people fired up!
Guest post from Ann Marie:
You know that old adage, “If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all?” Something we probably all heard from our grandma, but it's pretty good advice.
I just read this post by Sarah Pope on the Healthy Home Economist, Whole Foods: the Walmart of Health Food.
Why do we need to throw Whole Foods under the bus when they are doing so many good things?
I shop at Whole Foods every single week and I'm very grateful for them. If it weren't for Whole Foods, I would be shopping at Walmart.
Why I Shop at Whole Foods
Why do I shop at Whole Foods? Because they have the best selection of the stuff that I need. Bulk nuts and grains, grass-fed meat and dairy, wild-caught and sustainable seafood, organic foods, gluten-free crackers, natural personal care products, organic wine, unrefined sweeteners, etc. etc. etc. I feel very lucky to have a number of Whole Foods stores within driving distance.
Sure, it's great to support local farms, and I do as much as I can. Even while I'm shopping at Whole Foods! Whole Foods carries the products of many, many small farms. And I'm so pleased that they do.
Sure, it's more expensive, but for those of us who do not live in the Amish farm belt with raw milk a few miles away, or in Los Angeles with farmer's markets happening on a daily basis, it's not so easy to access these foods. For me, the convenience of Whole Foods makes it worth every penny.
A Longtime Customer
I first started shopping at Whole Foods when I was in college. I was poor, living on student loans, but I still had to have imported European cheese and crackers. I couldn't afford wine, so I bought beer. And I bought organic fruit and milk and eggs. I had read “Silent Spring” by Rachel Carson and I knew better than to eat pesticides.
While I used to be a vegetarian in college, I am no longer practicing. I personally don't agree with the Whole Foods vegan/vegetarian agenda but it doesn't impact me one iota when I shop there. So in my mind, it's a non-issue.
As far as the Whole Foods not removing all the GMO products from their shelves as Sarah mentions in her article, that is something we are working on as an industry.
I just got back from the Natural Products ExpoWest conference. I believe this is something we are all committed to. I've been going to ExpoWest for a few years now and I've never met anyone who wants GMO products.
But it's not so easy as just deciding to outlaw all GMO products from stores. The reality is, if we did that, then it would penalize a lot of producers who are really good but aren't totally certified organic/GMO-free yet. Does everyone want to be GMO-free? Yes! But should we punish a farmer or producer if they can't yet afford to be “certified organic”? What if they are making the transition but they are not there yet? Should they be booted out of Whole Foods? I don't think so.
Monsanto is the bad guy here. Instead of writing scathing posts about Whole Foods, why not hold Monsanto's feet to the fire? Whole Foods may not be perfect, but they are providing a valuable service for many of us.
And by the way, who is perfect? Are you? I certainly am not.
When GMOs were outlawed in Europe, it happened because people demanded it. Not shopping at Whole Foods accomplishes nothing. We need to put the heat on Whole Foods and other natural food stores, for sure, but just refusing to shop at their stores because they carry some GMO foods is too black and white.
Change happens when we make our needs known. And another thing your grandma probably said, “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”
Do you listen to someone who writes nasty things about you and then talks bad behind your back? No way! You listen to someone when they are your friend and is there to help you and support you. You listen to someone who tells everyone how great you are. Then when they say, “Hey, can I offer you a suggestion?” you are all ears.
Let's Stop Blaming Our Farmers and Food Producers
The bottom line is this: we need to stop blaming our natural and organic farmers and food producers.
I see this same argument all over the internet lately. People saying they won't buy from X because X is not perfect. X doesn't keep their milk raw (although it is grass-fed) so I won't buy it. X has their cows on pasture but they feed a little grain so I won't buy their meat. X uses olive oil to make potato chips instead of lard.
Yes, we do need to hold our food producers accountable and we do need to demand the best food they can provide. But we also need to consider that these farmers and food producers (and stores like Whole Foods) are subject to the mainstream.
Here's an example: I met an Indian curry producer at ExpoWest a few years ago. He made the most delicious curry. Unfortunately, he used canola oil in his products. When I asked him about it and said, “Wow, it would be great if you could use ghee,” he said, “Oh, I do use ghee in my cooking at home. But if I were to use ghee in my products that I sell, the fat content would go way too high and nobody would buy them.”
You see, he is doing the best he can to provide a healthy, delicious curry (and it was delicious) but his arms are tied behind his back because of the USDA food pyramid and the prevailing public opinion that fat is bad for you. So do we blame him? Or can we instead be grateful that he is doing the best he can?
Another example: Kelly the Kitchen Kop asked one of the yogurt producers at ExpoWest why they didn't carry a full-fat yogurt. They responded, “You're the first person who's ever asked for it.”
Another exhibitor at ExpoWest said, “People do better when they know better.”
Why not appreciate the good, and also ask our food producers if they can improve?
I, for one, am going to keep shopping at Whole Foods. And I'm grateful every day that I don't have to shop at Walmart.
But you know what, even if I did have to shop at Walmart, I would make the best of it, and I'd write letters and put notes in their suggestion box. Oh and PS: Whole Foods has always had a suggestion box. They also have a blog, a Facebook page, and a Twitter account.
Instead of bashing Whole Foods, let's give them our helpful feedback. We're all humans after all, and we're doing the best we can.
What Do You Think?
Do you shop at Whole Foods? Do you support farmers and food producers who are not perfect? Please share your comments below.
Quick note from Kelly: The fact that I was the first person to ask the yogurt producers about whole milk yogurt is so sad! As a group, let's start being more vocal with our food producers and let them know what kinds of Real Food we'd like to see from them!
Elizabeth says
Excellent, well-reasoned post conveying a true sense of humanity and community! Kelly provides the kind of advice and encouragement that can help many, many people be healthier than they are now, including families with parents who care deeply about their children’s health but do not have the time and means to make all their meals and personal products from virgin whole foods nor do full-time biochemical health research nor become an industry lobbyist.
[email protected] says
I loved and appreciated this post so much, Kelly, and agree with a lot of comments here. We also buy all our meat local (except no nitrate bacon…) and raw milk local, but for many other things, I appreciate Whole Foods for their selection and products, and they have a decent salad bar. 🙂
Nickole
Erin C says
I wish I had a Whole Foods! I have to drive 20 minutes to get to a very small and very limited “health food store” that mostly carries low-fat “foods” and gluten free bread mixes, etc. Other than that I have to shop at the local grocery chain or Wal-Mart. I’m glad that I can get grass-fed beef, pork, and pastured eggs from a local farm, but they are such a small operation that the meat I can get is limited. The won’t sell me raw milk because it is illegal here.
If you have access to a Whole Foods, or good health food stores, or raw milk consider yourself extremely blessed.
jocelyn357 says
OMG. I think I just shed a tear. Deputy Headmistress, it’s like you’ve taken the words right from my mouth…brain…fingertips? I’m in the middle of finals but was determined to use my study break this evening to say these very same things. You have beat me to it! Fantastic post. And might I say, we already live in a world where people lack kindness, thoughtfulness, and civility. I can turn to any street corner to be treated poorly or made to feel unworthy, why subject myself to it daily by a blog? Too many other nice people to choose from – and that’s where I’ll spend my time. Be encouraged people! Let us make progress together, pick one another up when we fall, be of generous spirit, and move toward our goals.
DeputyHeadmistress says
For those who persist in claiming this is about being ‘direct’, this is what is known in logic class as a ‘strawman.’ Instead of listing to what somebody else has to say and then accurately addressing their concerns, you just make something up, something that makes those you disagree wtih look bad, something foolish that you can easily refute. It’s far, far easier than actually accurately addressing their concerns, but it’s also dishonest.
This is not about sugar coating, being direct. or even being passionate. It’s not about ‘hurt feelings.’ It’s about being put off by incivility, rudeness, name-calling, and shrillness. In this very thread we have seen people who shop at WF compared to the abused victims of wife-beaters who keep going back for more (and both the true victim and the pretend victim are then blamed for the abuse!). Egad. Seriously? That’s not remotely like being ‘direct.’ That’s like being intellectually dishonest, shrill, over the top, insensitive, and wrong. Few things could be less direct.
In this thread it’s been broadly hinted (in quite self righteous tones) that if money spent at WF might have been spent at a local farmer’s place (never mind it if it would have purchased one fourth of the food to feed my family, and it wasn’t what we wanted to eat), that should be so guilt inducing it would render one unable to sleep. If I spent fifty dollars for food at Walmart when I might have spent fifty dollars for food at the local farmer’s market, I would sleep just fine. I would not feel guilty. I would know that I did what I could with what I have and that my first obligation is to be sure we have enough food to eat.
Self righteously claiming that “I couldn’t sleep at night” is not ‘direct.’ It is a loaded and accusatory claim carrying with it the implication that “And you shouldn’t be able to, either, and if you were as righteous as I, then you wouldn’t.” That’s emotional hand-waving. IT’s silly. It’s over the top rhetoric, not factual and direct.
I do not have a local WF. I also do not have a local farmer from whom to buy produce. My ‘local’ source of produce is 40 miles away. For the last month I could buy lettuce at 4.00 for half a pound or beets for about 3.00 a pound, and that’s it. He hasn’t carried anything else for at least three months. I have seven mouths to feed, sometimes more (unofficial foster parents). If I had a local WF, I would shop there. I do so when I am in the town that has one. Meanwhile, I buy most of my produce from standard grocery stores.
I don’t feel guilty at all. My feelings are not hurt. I just am not persuaded by arguments based on emotional manipulation, name calling, and false analogies. I respect arguments based on logic and facts.
Somebody who can’t sleep at night over lettuce and where she buys it from, is not somebody whose reasoning skills I can respect. If lettuce prevents you from sleeping at night, are you suicidal over abused children, or just lacking any sense of proportion?
Somebody who says it’s the victim’s fault for being abused if she goes back to the abuser shows a serious lack of compassion or understanding of the dynamics of an abusive relationship. To compare that to shopping at someplace like WF demonstrates as well a rather warped sense of priorities and makes you look, oddly, both ridiculous and cruel.
The self-righteousness, name calling, and emotional hand waving is self defeating, if your goal is to persuade others to your way of thinking. On the other hand, If your goal is to be polarizing, then it’s working, so no worries.
Neeli says
I have nothing but respect for you and your post. Very well spoken and I agree 100%.
Kristen Papac says
The author, AnnMarie, aka Cheeseslave, is owner of the blog network that promotes marketing and advertising for her own blog, Sarah Pope of the Healthy Home Economist and Kelly the Kitchen Kop here. To me this screams of either a ploy to create more drama/controversy in order to increase traffic on the blog network, or is a marketing ploy paid for/sponsored by Whole Foods, or both.
NicoleW says
Would the motivation for this conspiracy theory be at all related to the unfriendly exchange you mentioned previously between you and AnneMarie of Cheeseslave? Just curious. I think it’s just two bloggers publicly disagreeing about something.
Kristen Papac says
It could be simply about two bloggers disagreeing. It could also be about creating controversy to increase blog traffic, business associations and money.
AnnMarie has discussed on her social media strategy blog about how well Sarah Pope creates controversy and has increased her website traffic. https://socialmediastrategyblog.com/how-i-increased-my-blog-traffic-by-25-in-one-month/I don’t pretend to know the financials behind a blog advertising network but I do find it interesting when a representative of whole foods shows up in the comments to defend Whole Foods position.
Call me a conspiracy theorist. I obviously have no proof to back up my opinion on this matter. It is no secret that AnnMarie and I have had an adversarial Internet relationship this past year. I am just stating my opinion on this post. Nothing more and nothing less.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
Once again, Kristen, you are making wild exaggerations, accusing me of “drama” and “marketing ploys”. Good grief!
I am simply sharing my opinion in this post.
And no, Whole Foods is not a sponsor, nor have they ever been a sponsor of Real Food Media.
Kristen Papac says
Cool. Thanks for clarifying.
Gina says
Thanks Kelly for your blog and your post. I think everyone needs to practice “grace” more…including myself! Isn’t the purpose to provide the best food we can for our family wherever we live? ……and if it wasn’t for you my family would never have started down this whole foods journey! Blessings!
NicoleW says
Sorry this just isn’t what I see happening here. And the comparison of shopping at Whole Foods to the support of an abusive spouse is absurd (and probably offensive to domestic violence survivors). As “DeputyHeadmisstress” said above, “civility is not sugar-coating”. It’s not what she says but the way she says it that is clearly off-putting to people. Doesn’t matter, because Sarah thinks she must be doing something right if she’s being “persecuted” so things will never change and people will just have to remove her from their blog-feeds, facebook, etc.
No one attacked anyone for their beliefs. One blogger wrote their opinion – another blogger responded with why they strongly disagree. It’s a public discussion of the issues. Sarah’s name was mention because that is who this response address’s. That’s perfectly appropriate. The comments from people who find Sarah’s way of communicating rude and dogmatic are a totally separate issue. Seems to me they’re just sharing their less than stellar experience over at her blog.
You said: “The fact that bloggers who are SUPPOSED to be all about WAPF’s message of unprocessed, locally organic grown foods are coming out to SUPPORT the efforts of Whole foods who does little to supply people with any of those things is odd.” Did you even read the comments on both blogs? Or stepped foot in a Whole Foods? It sure doesn’t seem so. Many people have already said they are able to find exactly those things in Whole Foods. I know my nearest Whole Foods has an abundance of unprocessed, locally grown organics, many coming from the same farmers I purchase from directly. My farmer is selling via Whole Foods and his direct business is thriving. I see no problem with that.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@NicoleW
“And the comparison of shopping at Whole Foods to the support of an abusive spouse is absurd (and probably offensive to domestic violence survivors).”
Agreed. It was an appeal to emotion, instead of just bringing up facts to support an argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
“I know my nearest Whole Foods has an abundance of unprocessed, locally grown organics, many coming from the same farmers I purchase from directly. My farmer is selling via Whole Foods and his direct business is thriving. I see no problem with that.”
I have had the same experience.
Elizabeth says
It comes down to PRINCIPLES. Either you stand by them and uphold them or you compromise them. Excusing the behavior of Whole Foods In their vast misinformation campaigns is tantamount to excusing the behavior of an abusive spouse and then going back for more. YOU are the one keeping the abuse alive, not the abuser.
At this point… attempting to attack anyone for their opinion and beliefs is drama mongering. It also divides… but it also shows the character of those involved. Sarah should not be attacked OR EVEN CALLED OUT… for her beliefs and opinions. That is in poor taste. This entire article could have been written with out mentioning anyone by name.. because to do so is a veritable attack upon that person’s opinion. Instead stick to the topic. Sarah is not the only person who feels this way. Address the topic, not the person. But… attacking the person is a dysfunctional tactic to curry favor and place someone in a negative light to gain more support for one’s own opinion. It should not be tolerated by people who claim to share principles.
Either a company is lying to you… and purposefully misleading you… or they are not. Excusing that behavior as part of the business is unacceptable and is PART OF THE PROBLEM. “They are doing the best they can” mentality… is also PART OF THE PROBLEM. No they are not doing the best they can… Because the BEST they can is by refusing all GMO foods…. by truly being a LOCAL farmer grocery. Instead of supporting Chile, Mexico and California almost exclusively with their produce among many other things.
The more we EXCUSE and ALLOW the more they will seek to get away with. The fact that bloggers who are SUPPOSED to be all about WAPF’s message of unprocessed, locally organic grown foods are coming out to SUPPORT the efforts of Whole foods who does little to supply people with any of those things is odd.
It is one thing to say.. “if this is as close as you can get to healthier food.. so be it”: It is another to stand in support of their Business model and methods and excuse their behavior because their IMAGE ALONE is “whole foods.”
Deception on any level should not be tolerated. The fact that people do… and speak out in support of those who are deceptive and seemingly against those who are against the deception… well that seems a little odd too.
Perhaps it’s time to stop paying attention to what certain talking heads are saying… and start figuring things out for yourselves, with your own minds and formulate your own opinions. Because trusting your own gut is more important than what this person or that person says who thinks themselves important.
Emilee says
WELL SAID Elizabeth.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@Elizabeth
My post was simply a rebuttal to Sarah’s post.
Here is the definition of rebuttal: “In an argument or debate, the presentation of evidence and reasoning meant to weaken or undermine an opponent’s claim.”
You wrote:
“…attempting to attack anyone for their opinion and beliefs is drama mongering. It also divides… but it also shows the character of those involved. Sarah should not be attacked OR EVEN CALLED OUT… for her beliefs and opinions.”
You call it “drama mongering,” I call it civilized debate. I certainly do not think it is an “attack” as you suggest. Now if I had said, “Sarah is wrong” or “Sarah is stupid” or something like that, yes, I would call that an attack. But I did not attack her. I simply disagreed with her and explained why.
DeputyHeadmistress says
Civility is not “sugar coating.”
Laryssa @Heaven In The Home says
Totally agree with you! Thanks for writing this post.
jocelyn357 says
There must be a lot of variability in this. I would say my Whole Foods has a 50/50 split between organic/conventional, a number of the “conventional” items are labeled “Whole Trade” (their fair trade program). Regarding the prices, I don’t find them to be much different from my farmers market. I prefer to spend my money at the farmers market, so when it’s in season I do my best to buy from them. I’m also quite committed to shopping the items that are on sale, so that helps. Interestingly, I’m in the Atlanta area, and my nearest Whole Foods is in a lower income neighborhood, and the vast majority of people I see shopping in there are definitely not yuppies. I love that they’re providing access to better foods to people who might not otherwise buy them.
Amanda says
I have to side with Sarah Pope on this. Whole Foods only has a little tiny portion or organic produce, and a huge section of over priced conventional produce.
D. says
It seems like ALL produce is over-priced these days. Even in regular grocery stores, whether it’s organic or conventional, it’s pretty pricy – and that doesn’t even touch on farmers market prices.
A couple of years ago I saw a video where a family of four was strolling through a grocery store trying to decide if it’s more cost-effective for them, on a VERY limited budget, to try to buy ingredients to make their own food at home, or to eat an almost total diet of fast foods. Guess which one they were able to afford? It was sad because the youngest girl (about 13 or 14 I think) was looking longingly at the cucumbers and fresh lettuce, but had to settle for Burger King or McD’s instead. The older daughter kept telling her sister to stop looking at the fresh stuff – they just couldn’t afford it. How sad is that? I responded to the article in the comment section that they should check their area for a community garden. If they could afford to buy a few packets of seeds, they could sign up to help with the garden and take home at least some fresh produce throughout the year. I received an email about two months later, after I’d kinda forgotten about it, thanking me for the suggestion and they had done JUST that. Imagine it! Lots of people don’t even realize they have other options.
In my area of the country we have what is called Bountiful Baskets and I’ve been participating in that for a while now. Log on and see if it’s available in your area – might be a partial answer, if nothing else. https://www.bountifulbaskets.org/
Deborah Peterson says
While I don’t advocate to totally stop patronizing Whole Foods, I would like to encourage holding Whole Foods responsible for some of the questionable changes that they have been doing. This can easily be done by contacting WFs via email, their website, their blog, or even via the snail mail. Compared to the conventional grocery stores, Whole Foods is by far the better choice. What I have been concerned about is the lack of information about questionable products that WFs has started carrying. I’m also concerned about the lax attitude that WFs has had with regards to accurate labeling, especially when it comes to genetic modification ingredients. I’m also concerned about the increasing diminishing raw food items & ingredients that they had always carried, as well as, the decrease in Vegan products, too. If we want WFs to be the standard in sustainable, clean, nutrient dense, organic, vegan, etc type of products, then we need to make our thoughts, opinons & requests known to them. One thing that I have noticed that is a major plus to WFs, is the carrying of organically, ethically raised & produced & for the most part, local meat products (beef, pork, poultry, eggs, etc). They list the farms, diets, etc for these products. This is a plus for those who are meat consumers & helps to get people off of the conventional large scale commercially obtained meat products. Also, more & more WFs are also increasing the offerings of locally grown produce! This helps in getting the word out to many others about these farms being a part of their community & helps to increase patronizing these producers.
NicoleW says
OK, I just can’t believe people are getting upset that AnneMarie posted a blog-response to Sarah’s blog post. That is a perfectly normal phenomenon I see in the blogging world EVERY DAY. IT’S CALLED DIALOGUE!!!! You know what I also notice? It’s often between men in the “paleo” blog world and they don’t get their feeling hurt. One blogger says, “This is my opinion….and here’s why…” and their fellow blogger responds, “This is why I don’t agree with your opinion and here’s how I deal with the issue…”. Perfectly normal and neither AnneMarie nor Kelly should feel guilty. For heaven’s sake. The post is appropriate and really not connected to the MYRIAD comments where people are blowing off steam about Sarah’s attitude. Those comments are a direct result of Sarah’s behavior and not the fault of this totally appropriate post by AnneMarie. Sorry.
Second of all, Sarah most certainly does not just share her own convictions as though she intends them just for herself. She makes HUGE generalizations about things, in a way that she CLEARLY expects everyone else to accept her convictions as their own. She does it without apology or an ounce of grace for those who might not be quite where she is in their food journey, so she should be able to take it because she dishes it out quite heartily.
Neeli says
I agree with you on this. My gripe isn’t about the fact that Sarah doesn’t want to shop at Whole Foods, my problem is that she can dish it out, yet when someone calls her out on a subject, she resorts to name-calling and accusing people of fearmongering. What good is a blog if people can’t respectfully disagree with the person who writes the blog? It serves no purpose to ridicule people and act superior to readers who may not be as far along as she is on her real food journey. I have posted comments on her blog in the past because I’ve enjoyed the topics, however, when I disagreeded about a certain topic, she, along with other readers attacked me for having my own perspective. As adults, I firmly believe that we all have the right to our own opinions without being verbally attacked for not agreeing with everything that bloggers have to say. I feel that comments are being filtered to make it seem as though Sarah is being attacked for eating locally when that’s not the case for me.
D. says
I agree with both of you, to a degree. The women who write these blogs are free to write/say whatever they want. I guess that’s sorta the bottom line. We are allowed to state our opinions, so it’s a two way street. Whether or not there is agreement on everything is really not too important because everyone does what they are capable of doing on their journey with health and food. We can all learn something even in disagreement.
I like all three blogs for the recipes mostly; the rest of the dialogue I sorta read with one eye closed. Sometimes I comment, sometimes I don’t.
I am going to take a break from reading foodie blogs for a while though. I hafta say truthfully,I’m getting burned out on terms like gluten-free, GAPS diet, soaked grains, GMO’s – but nothing is getting to me quite like the terms paleo and primal. I’m tired of that whole scene.
At my house we do the best we can to eat properly about 85% of the time. We cheat sometimes and have things we know we shouldn’t but we’re human. My DH and I drink a coke occasionally because we are avid supporters and fans of our local high school wrestling programs (it’s the one sport I actually understand!) and one way we can help them is to buy stuff from the concession stands. A coke is the least offensive to us! I can’t eat a concession stand hot dog, sorry. But I don’t apologize to ANYONE for not being perfect – and I don’t really think anyone is or can be 100% anything in regard to foods. Do the best you can with what’s available to you and skip the guilt and hard feelings.
Neeli says
@ D, I agree with you as well. I do the best that I can for my own situation and don’t feel guilty if I eat something that I shouldn’t. We have to enjoy life and not sweat the small stuff. I also agree with all the terms for eating real foods, it be too much at times. I am fortunate enough not to have any known food allergies, but I do want to get tested for shellfish allergies. I couldn’t imagine not being able to just go in my kitchen and cook whatever foods that I might be craving.
Ellen says
agreed. time to take a break and plant some seeds.
D. says
Hey, that’s what I’m going to do today. Plant a small herb garden in containers. I don’t have time for a full-fledged garden so I have to try “deck gardening” in pots. I was planning to do it last year but the weather didn’t cooperate so we’ll give it a go this year!
D. says
Does anyone have a good gardening site they like to frequent? I used to subscribe to the weekly e-newsletters of P. Allen Smith but he’s gone to supporting everything soy (because the Arkansas Soy Growers are now his top sponsor – go figure) so I can’t even tolerate his stuff anymore. Promotion of the soy ink greeting cards isn’t so bad but truly, I don’t want support for anything soy because I wish they’d just quit taking up land to grow the junk.
Anyone know of a good, informational gardening forum? I don’t really want another blog setting, so I’m looking either for a discussion forum or an e-newsletter I can subscribe to. Thanks for any suggestions.
Lisa says
Does it bother you that she also posted this? https://www.cheeseslave.com/whole-foods-permanently-discontinues-raw-milk-nationwide/
NicoleW says
Not at all. Why should it? If everyone held my feet to the fire on every idea or opinion I had two years ago, I think I’d be in trouble. I’d bet most of us would. I know I certainly have experienced an evolution of ideas and opinions. Now if you showed me she posted something similar last week, maybe I’d be concerned, but two years later it’s hardly relevant. Putting your ideas online for the world to see is obviously tricky!
I was around when AnneMarie wrote that post and I felt like it might be a knee-jerk reaction to a legitimately sad situation. That was neither the first, nor last time Whole Foods will disappoint us. I think they do more good than harm, and it’s up to us to spend our money wisely there. I will never purchase an item from them I wouldn’t purchase from my farmer, and if my farmer is able to provide it, great! They aren’t always able to do so. No shame in my Whole Foods shoppin’ game!
Raine says
I agree with Emilee on this one. There is no way that all of us bloggers or otherwise are going to agree on everything all the time. Sarah was only writing about maintaining the principles she believes are critical for real food, and I’ve done the same thing many, many times. I don’t think this post has done anything constructive except put people on the defense. There are many, many things I read which I don’t agree with on various sites, but I choose not to go in and say that what that person has decided or blogged about is wrong or somehow off kilter. That doesn’t mean I won’t express my opinion, because I certainly do . But this post has gone beyond expressing an opinion to pointing out that someone else has behaved badly – and for what? Sarah wasn’t trying to be rude or condemn anyone, she just expressed her opinions, as we are all free to do. And I feel she gave valid reasons for doing so. The main thing is to support each other, and especially as this network is supposed to be supportive of all those who care about real food. If we start criticizing each other for trying to uphold the principles we all say that we believe in, our cause is not only going to look unappealing to the rest of the world, but we may lose the support we’d like to garner. It would be great if we could all respect each other and get along.
Lisa says
So, let’s not bash a large corporation that charges organic prices for conventionally raised produce, knowingly sells processed foods containing GMOs (but chooses not to label it as such) but still claims to be part of the non-GMO movement, let’s just bash the PERSON who shares her conviction to shop elsewhere? Truly, I would think you could find better ways to spend your time.
Some people have little to no choice about where to buy their food sue to their location. In my travels around the country, cities large enough to have a Whole Foods also had smaller, locally-owned natural food stores. And I have chosen those every time.
This blog attack on another blogger comes across as very “middle school.”to. I don’t have time for it and won’t be following your blog any longer.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@Lisa
“So, let’s not bash a large corporation that …knowingly sells processed foods containing GMOs (but chooses not to label it as such)”
Sorry, but it is not up to the store to label foods — it’s up to the manufacturer. Do you really think grocery stores should sequester all the food products on their shelves that contain GMO ingredients and put a sticker on them?
“but still claims to be part of the non-GMO movement”
Whole Foods has done a TON to support and protect organic food.
JMR says
I shop at WF. It is convenient has better prices in my town than Kroger or Giant Eagle. It offers a good selection of organic, local and natural foods, which the other stores don’t. The only organic item my local Walmart sells is green onions. I rarely buy packaged or processed items at WF. I buy fruit, vegetables, pastured meat and eggs (brands labeled “Best” in the WAPF shopping guide), and bulk items. Where does one buy teff locally? WF is the only place I know to get it.
I get my milk at a local farm. I buy some pastured meat through a local buying club. I have a garden and preserve some of the vegetables I grow. But I also work about 50 hours a week with a very long commute, and I travel 16 days out of the month. I work most weekends when the farmers markets are open and the CSAs have pickups. In other words, I don’t have the time or energy to drive all over the state picking up food from local farmers. So I do the best I can. And that means doing some of my shopping at WF. I figure buying fresh food from WF and cooking a meal is superior to giving up and calling Domino’s when I’m tired and hungry.
The farmers markets nearby sell mostly cupcakes, cookies and Oscar Meyer hot dogs, with a few stands selling vegetables, corn-fed barbecued meat, cheese and honey. The woman who sells cheese at the farmers market also sells it to WF, but they’ll sell it to me for about 25% less than buying it directly from her. The man who sells local honey at the FM charges about twice as much for the exact same honey that WF sells to me after buying it from him, and for about 15% more than he charges for it on his website. If there’s any sort of local health food store in town, they’ve kept their existence a huge secret. Therefore, I don’t feel like I should be doing all my shopping at the farmers market or the local health food store.
Is WF a perfect choice? No. But it is a perfectly acceptable choice to me. And I don’t think my choices are WF vs. local food. I think my choices are some WF and local food vs. the standard American diet. But I also support the right of others to choose not to shop there.
Emilee says
Wow….pot here is your kettle….
Seriously… O_o
https://www.cheeseslave.com/whole-foods-permanently-discontinues-raw-milk-nationwide/
I have been an avid fan and supporter of Whole Foods for two decades — since I was in college in the early ’90s. I went to college in Austin, where Whole Foods started, and I loved them from the beginning.
My love for Whole Foods has officially died.
I can’t get behind a company that proclaims, with their very name, to be all about WHOLE FOODS. And yet they won’t sell a product that is the original whole food. Raw milk. Straight from the cow. Unprocessed, unheated, untreated, full fat, free of antibiotics and added hormones. Grass-fed. Can it get any more of a WHOLE FOOD than that?
From now on, I’ll be avoiding Whole Foods and taking my money elsewhere. I truly believe that raw milk is a “whole food” and I believe that farmers producing raw milk need our support.
Kristen Papac says
I find this simply ironic because I was just told I was “a pot calling a the kettle black” BY AnnMarie (Cheeseslave) in the comments section of David Gumpert’s The Complete Patient Blog. I totally remember this raw milk anti-WF post now. Thanks for speaking your mind, Emilee.
KitchenKop says
@Emilee, I think one thing we all agree on is that the Real Food journey is not always simple or cut and dried. As bloggers, we’ve taken on the role of trying to help others figure all of this out, and in doing so, we open ourselves up to criticism as we share our opinions, that may or may not change over time.
Again, WFM isn’t perfect, and neither are bloggers.
I’m sure I’ve changed my tune on this or that through the years, too, heck I do it often just in my own shopping cart. One week, “I’m never buying that again!” and then in a weaker moment, I might grab whatever it is a few months later because I need it for a certain recipe or if people are coming over, etc.
We’re all just trying to do our best and figure it out as we go.
Kelly
Emilee says
I’m not saying they or anyone need be “perfect”…I just find a lot of Ann Marie’s words very hypocritical. She’s says above about people not buying x because it’s not perfect etc…but her attitude towards being a RFM blogger or WAPF member is that you have to be perfect your you aren’t good enough. You can’t believe differently than WAPF or you aren’t WAPF “enough” or whatever.
But what is the purpose of this post? Whom does it serve/benefit? Was it appropriate to your “friend”?
And Ann Marie stated above in a comment “I wouldn’t boycott a whole store just because they instituted one bad idea.”
Has she really forgotten her words I posted above?
But really…live and let live…why does she need to defend whole foods because Sarah doesn’t want to shop there. Again the only point of this post is to make her feel better for deciding to shop there, good for her, I don’t remember Sarah telling people they should or shouldn’t shop there, just stating why she would not be. Why do people need to get all defensive because of what someone else decides to do?
And just because you falter on your values doesn’t mean others are wrong because they don’t. What kind of argument is that? No one is condemning you for making mistakes or faltering. But There is also nothing wrong with being firm in your values and holding to them either. Or holding institutions and corporations up to a level of standards and ethics. So if she posted about not shopping at the new walmart coming in, would you all post the same “defense” of walmart because well they are doing the best they can and some people just need to shop there, so don’t say bad things about walmarts ethics and if it weren’t for whole foods I’d have to shop there so don’t go talking bad about walmart because I need to feel better about my choice or need to shop there.
I just find this disrespectful to your “friend” and it makes no sense at all.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
@Emilee
I was pissed and very disappointed when Whole Foods stopped carrying raw milk nationwide, and so yes, I posted that I would not shop there anymore. And yes, I changed my mind. Last time I checked, changing your mind is still legal.
I’m a blogger and when I post something everyone remembers it forever. But I don’t think it is fair to say that a person should never change their mind. If I never changed my mind, I’d still be drinking Diet Coke and eating Pop Tarts.
“but her attitude towards being a RFM blogger or WAPF member is that you have to be perfect your you aren’t good enough. You can’t believe differently than WAPF or you aren’t WAPF “enough” or whatever.”
Huh? Where did you get all of that from? When did I ever say people needed to be perfect? If I did ever say it, I retract it. As I said above, I am not perfect — far from it — and I do not expect others to be.
“Why do people need to get all defensive because of what someone else decides to do? ”
Why do you perceive this post as “defensive”? It is simply sharing another point of view. Sarah is a good friend of mine and I’m sure this post does not bother her. I’ve had other bloggers disagree with me on everything from drinking coffee to tandem breastfeeding. It doesn’t bother me.
“But There is also nothing wrong with being firm in your values and holding to them either. Or holding institutions and corporations up to a level of standards and ethics. So if she posted about not shopping at the new walmart coming in, would you all post the same “defense” of walmart because well they are doing the best they can and some people just need to shop there, so don’t say bad things about walmarts ethics and if it weren’t for whole foods I’d have to shop there so don’t go talking bad about walmart because I need to feel better about my choice or need to shop there.”
Nothing wrong at all with being firm in your values.
But according to this logic, then Sarah should not shop at Target or Bed Bath and Beyond or any number of other stores, including online stores like Amazon, because they ALL carry GMO foods. If you’re gonna boycott Whole Foods because it carries GMO foods, then for heaven’s sake, be consistent.
Emilee says
Wow I don’t even know where to begin responding to this post. I’m in utter shock first of all of the recent blogging lately bashing and condemning other bloggers posts and opinions, why even care what others say? Why do you feel the need to blog about what others blog? O_o
Look if you disagree with Sarah or any other blogger FINE, but why do you all need to bash them. Don’t read their blog if you don’t like it, period. There are millions of blogs out there I disagree with. Or is this simply because you are trying to shove people out of your little “club”? I don’t read Anne Marie either because of many reasons which I won’t state here. And I wouldn’t go around blogging…well this “other” blogger said such and such but I think she’s full of crap so this is what I believe so I can make myself feel better about my decisions. Why not just write a completely separate blog stating, Hey I like Whole foods, and this is why. You don’t need to even mention other bloggers or allow comments to bash other bloggers. Not necessary, helpful, kid or respectful.
This whole post is just a vain attempt at making yourselves feel better for shopping at whole foods and being TOO LAZY to have higher standards and set the tone for the market. If you keep buying soy and canola products they will continue to be produced. If you continue to support the store they will continue to sell whatever they want. What the heck are you talking about saying that stopping shopping at whole foods does nothing? Among many things it puts my money in the hands of the LOCAL FARMERS not giant farms in California and china and mexico for one. I live in North Carolina why do I want broccoli from California when there is plenty of great broccoli HERE??? But like I said, If I keep my dollars out of there then I’m one less person buying and supporting their ethics which I do not agree with.
I think it’s ridiculous to claim if you didn’t shop at whole foods your only other option is Walmart. How unbalanced is that? There are not local co-ops near you, no farmer’s markets, csa’s, farmers etc????? You can’t grow your own garden? What items do you buy at whole foods that you can’t locally that you would instead get at walmart? The more we become self sufficient the less we should need any of these “super” stores, organic, natural or not.
So it’s ok to say, sure just buy everything at whole foods don’t have any discretion, eat soy and canola and trust everything in that store because they are “doing their best”? WHAT???? That makes no sense at all and is exactly the reason that Sarah and others decide it’s best to put their money into their community and support local economy instead of big CORPORATE GIANTS like whole foods who squash out local economy, local foods and businesses. It’s no different than the problems with walmart which I find interesting you state you would actually shop there as well if “it weren’t for whole foods”. Because there are many of the same issues economically, ethically etc with Walmart. I choose not to buy there either if possible. your comment about the indian guy at the expo “So do we blame him? Or can we instead be grateful that he is doing the best he can?” Who said anything about “blame” what we are saying is, if you don’t buy his product and tell him because it is made with unhealthy, inferior products he will reconsider his product. But as long as people buy it anyway, he will keep making it the same. That is how consumerism works!! So your comment that stopping buying from whole foods does nothing is WRONG. And we are teaching others that there are better ways to spend their food dollars and support the economy and get yeah, BETTER food!
Instead of “bashing” other posts, like you’ve been doing lately, just say why you do what you do without bringing others into it. You choose to shop at whole foods because it’s convenient and easy for you. You don’t have time or want to be bothered looking into your local community for food or growing it yourself.
“Every time you spend money, you’re casting a vote for the kind of world you want.” ~ Anna Lappe
The truth doesn’t need me to believe it. The truth simply is, and it survives –believe it or not. Lies need me to believe them.
If I don’t believe lies, they don’t survive my skepticism, and they simply disappear.
~don Miguel Ruiz
“All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. Facts are stubborn, and refusal to accept them does not avoid their inexorable effects-the tragic consequences are now upon us”
– Hellen Keller.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. – Leo Tolstoy, 1897
“Most men can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, have proudly taught to others, and have woven thread by thread into the fabric of their lives.” ~ Tolstoy
jocelyn357 says
Emilee – It’s helpful to read not only the post, but the comments *thoroughly* before responding. Bloggers respond to one-another via blog post regularly. It’s called “dialogue”. They do it publicly so we can all benefit from learning that occurs when people dialogue. Disagreement is inherent in these situations, even when the people agree on most issues.
Regarding people not favoring Sarah’s “tone” (as it has been put by a number of people), I don’t think it’s bashing, really. I don’t doubt she’s feeling the heat though. It’s a number of people who have similar interests saying “Hey, you know what? I like most of that author’s content, but I don’t think I will read her anymore because she chooses to use language that is unfriendly and too polarizing to make her points”. I think a number of people felt that way, and didn’t realize they aren’t alone! I think Sarah believes the fact that people are offended by her way of communicated is some kind of confirmation that she’s doing something right – like she’s being persecuted for righteousness. It just isn’t true. She could quite easily make the same points using a different method and reach far more people.
You said, “This whole post is just a vain attempt at making yourselves feel better for shopping at whole foods and being TOO LAZY to have higher standards and set the tone for the market. If you keep buying soy and canola products they will continue to be produced. If you continue to support the store they will continue to sell whatever they want.” This is only one reason I believe you either didn’t actually read the comments, or you didn’t pay them enough attention. Most of us have indicated here and on Sarah’s blog that we do support our local farmers, and I can only speak for myself when I say I spend a significant portion of my waking hours procuring real, locally grown, organic foods so your accusation that there is laziness involved is inaccurate at best. Can you please provide a quote where anyone here said they were purchasing soy or canola products from Whole Foods, or anywhere else for that matter? I’m just not sure where you got that impression. The vast majority of us frequenting WAPF blogs are well aware of the risks of using industrially produced oils and would never feed them to our families. That was just a strange thing to say. I have yet to read a comment that would lead me to believe there is a lack of discretion being used by those of us who use Whole Foods as ONE of our food resources. What would make you say this? I think you are making some huge assumptions that have no basis in fact…at all. I can’t think of one item I purchase at Whole Foods that would not be worthy of the WAPF’s “Best” rating for their shopping guide.
“You don’t have time or want to be bothered looking into your local community for food or growing it yourself.” Once again, the vast majority of us spend much energy sourcing much of our nutrition locally through our community so your accusation is pointless and without merit.
I thank you for your quotes. Particularly Anna Lappe, as it is well in line with my philosophy of food and is a call for us to each do better with what we’ve got.
[email protected] says
@Emilee,
You wrote: “This whole post is just a vain attempt at making yourselves feel better for shopping at whole foods and being TOO LAZY to have higher standards and set the tone for the market.”
You also wrote: “You choose to shop at whole foods because it’s convenient and easy for you. You don’t have time or want to be bothered looking into your local community for food or growing it yourself.”
Aren’t you doing your own bashing? Aren’t you making tons of generalizations. I shop at WFs, and I also buy from local farmers too. In fact, I try to buy from local farmer’s first; then I go to WFs. And, I don’t buy tons of processed foods; in fact, I hardly buy any processed foods. I am not lazy. I do my best to support local, organic, grass fed choices, but sometimes I need to go to WF. For instance, one of my favorite farmers sells the most delicious carrots ever. But, I can only get them if I’m a part of his CSA or if I buy them at WFs. I don’t belong to his CSA because I prefer to go to the FM and buy what I need when I need it, and when I do order from a CSA, it’s a more flexible one ran by farmers who I love! Usually, though, I go to their stand and buy from them. So no, I’m not lazy. And no, I don’t believe we should be bashing Sarah or Ann Marie. And I DO NOT believe you should be bashing us people who still shop at WFs. If I had another choice, I might go there, but at this point I don’t. The local health food store in town sucks and has nothing different. Everything they have is also at WFs and for much more, so that to me is not a choice.
Emilee says
you’re right I did assume/project some things to make a point and out of extreme annoyance, I’ll own it…but honestly, this whole post makes no sense. Whole foods doesn’t need “defending” they don’t need anyone to tell us about their, blog, website, twitter handle, yada yada…we know how to find them. Are they paying for this???? One would wonder. Many people and organizations have given them their “advice” till they are blue in the face, where has she been? We’ve seen their views on foods from china and GMOS as Sarah clearly explained in her reasons for her choice. Many people have many ethical issues with whole foods or walmart and it’s fine to have those and choose not to shop there. That is what Sarah said/did. I guess what I really was trying to do is to make her see that she is no different by stating she is going to shop there regardless of how “bad” they are. Than Sarah is to say she doesn’t like their ethics so she refuses to shop there. Both parties have their rights and beliefs. But it’s so absurd to post “in defense of whole foods” it’s more like “I need to validate my choices because someone else’s post made me feel bad”. do what you want, we don’t need anyone to “validate” their reasons. I was just trying to make a point as to what it really sounds like she is saying is she just wants validation to make herself feel better. Sarah was simply letting others in on why she’s choosing not to shop there and her feelings are valid whether or not Ann Marie or anyone agrees. At least Sarah is CONSISTENT in her beliefs and message and attitude. I don’t have to always agree with her or anyone but I can at least say she’s consistent in her words.
As I posted below Ann Marie said just last year she was not going to shop there any more because of her “values” so what does that say???
Emilee says
and again I’m not bashing anyone for shopping there, do what you want, it’s your right I really don’t care if she or anyone shops there or not, I am not “bashing”. Just as it’s Sarah’s right to post about her reasons to NOT shop there I just happen to agree with her. Her reasons didn’t have any justification to denounce Sarah’s post/reasons to not shop there. Sarah had very valid justification for choosing to not shop there. But Ann Marie is simply saying she shops there because it’s convenient for her. Well good for you then. Why bring Sarah into it at all? Like I said, she had valid reasons for her beliefs/values and she stands by those and I believe a year from now she will most likely still not be shopping there and writing posts “defending” whole foods.
Meagan says
GREAT post Kelly – thank you for sharing THIS side, as I believe this is a better mindset to have.
Raine says
I’d also like to add that I enjoy Sarah’s blog a lot, and haven’t been offended by any of the posts she’s written. As Sarah has said, she’s not one for sugar coating, and I’m not either. My motto is” if we don’t stand up for real, sustainable principles, who will? If not now, then when?
jocelyn357 says
I have no expectation that Sarah, you, or anyone else who blogs “sugarcoat” anything. I’m not sure why you (and Sarah) seem to think sugarcoating is the only alternative to your views. I just think she’s flat out wrong on this issue, and the “righteous” way she uses to communicate her opinions is unfortunate. I have no problem that we disagree, really. I just hope I’m never so closed minded as to dig my heels in permanently on an issue when there’s so much contrary evidence.
Neeli says
I agree with Jocelyn on this one. There is a difference between being direct and being rude. I have no problem with people who speak their mind and tell it like it is, however, there is a right and wrong way to speak to people, even if they might have a different opinion. This has nothing to do with readers wanting to have things sugar-coated because we read real food blogs for a better understanding about real foods. I have been attacked on Sarah’s blog and I’ve also seen where others were attacked for voicing their own opinions. I was called a fearmonger and Big Dairy for voicing my opinion about a topic on Sarah’s blog. What people have to realize is that their situations are different and what works for one family will not always work for another family. When people start to develop a self-righteous attitude, then that turns people off. I don’t follow or agree with everything that the WAPF practices, but I agree with a lot of the information and I do what works for my family. When people start to act as if they have all the answers and a know-it-all, then it takes away from the intended message of eating real foods. No one is asking you or anyone else to sugar-coat anything, and to be honest, that’s not what our gripe is. I have read your blog and several others on Real Food Media, and think that the info is great, but there is no reason why people have to be attacked on a blog for voicing their different opinions.
Stanley Fishman @ Tender Grassfed Meat says
Well said, Raine.
Susan K says
Thanks for the perspective, Ann Marie. I do buy some things from Whole Foods. I support local businesses and markets mostly, but there are some things that I can find ony at WF. One way to look at it is that they provide lots of jobs in the communities they serve. They also try to give back to the community, as well.
Rebecca In Michigan says
I have never meet Sarah in person and I believe and feel that she is a very kind and loving person. She loves what she does and wants to help others. I hope that I never get judged by what I write. I am one who writes what I want said and there are times when I am just getting the point across. Some times or maybe many of times it comes out looking like I am right and you are wrong, or I am angry or judgemental. That isn’t the case. I believe Sarah is the same way. Please don’t let her style of writing to cause any of you to dislike her. She has a lot of information and helpful tips for everyone of us. Don’t take it personal.
leah says
I have to shop at Wal-Mart because it is the only thing around. I would give anything to live close to a Whole Foods! And yes, your voice makes a difference–even at WM. Ours is carrying lots more organic produce and natural/gluten free products now.
Raine says
Hi Kelly – oops, thanks for reminding me, I forgot to leave the link! 🙂
https://agriculturesociety.com/healthy-living/8-reasons-i-wont-shop-at-whole-foods-when-it-opens-in-boise-idaho/
Kristen Papac says
Great points, Rainne!
Raine says
I also wrote a post about this topic in February, and I gave 8 reasons why I won’t shop at WF when they come to my city, Boise, ID. I was not trying to be malicious or mean-spirited, I just believe in standing on my principles about supporting as many sustainable efforts as I can – and there’s a vast difference in those two things. I backed up each point with facts, not opinions, and referenced each of them.
I also don’t appreciate being given misinformation from Whole Foods about their products. If there are GMOs in the store, fine. But I don’t want to hear half-truths from the employees about it when asked, and then see the anti-GMO campaign signs. That is just insulting, honestly. I heard those things both when I personally went into the stores and asked, and also from videos I’ve seen of folks from Organic Consumer’s Association who went in to ask these same questions of the employees, and weren’t even given an answer, period. I talked about this issue in my post and provided links.
The other issue is that by USDA standards, “grassfed” only has to be 30% grassfed. That means that if you are buying “grassfed meat” in a store, you never really know if what you are getting is feedlot meat or if it’s 100% grassfed. I don’t consider eating a little grain to be an issue, but you had better believe that I’m going to have a problem with any meat that’s been on a feedlot for a period of time and still receives the label, “grassfed”. Jordan Rubin has stated that a lot of these meats are simply not grassfed as consumers are told. So no, I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. I just want the truth, and I don’t think that’s too much to ask, really.
Another reason I wrote this post is because since about 2006, a lot of people in Boise have been complaining that they wish stores like WF and Trader Joe’s would open, and that they couldn’t wait until those stores were open because they would be cheaper and have more variety. I’ve had years of experience shopping at WF and Trader Joes in various cities from traveling, and I can tell the readers here that neither of those stores are cheaper than our local health food store, The Boise Co-op. This store carries a variety of wonderful products, and is a long-standing business that has faithfully supported local and organic food and product producers, is employee-owned, and a community center in many senses of the word.
So, I’m sick and tired of people in our community bashing our local health food store, which is by far a much better place to shop than WF. As well, the Boise area is incredibly fortunate to have many so local and sustainable producers who work tirelessly to provide great food choices for our community. Many of these farmers come from miles around in the winter time too, to deliver foods to people once a week when the farmer’s market is not in session. In our area, winter time can bring fierce cold, inclement weather, and bad roads, so this is quite extraordinary. It’s a testimonial to the dedication of our farmers to provide the community with healthy food.
Our community is so lucky and blessed, and when I hear people complaining that they want WF to come when we have so many wonderful farmers and the fantastic Co-op already, it kind of makes me sick inside….unless, for some strange reason you really don’t care about supporting local farmers that much, enjoy spending a lot more money for what you are getting, and also not even being sure if what you are getting is organic or local.
From personal experience, I have always spent 2-3 times more at WF than I have ever at The Boise Co-op, and that’s in various cities I’ve shopped in: Las Vegas, L.A., Seattle, Phoenix, Orlando, and Portland, OR. My husband has repeatedly been annoyed whenever we’ve gone to WF and shopped because they prices were too expensive. If prices are consistently higher in all of these cities which I have shopped in over a period of almost 2 decades, I would expect the same once it comes to Boise. I’ve talked with people from all over the country, and most of them refer to it as “whole paycheck”. So either all of those people are just dead wrong, or they are incredibly cheap. Really, I don’t think either of those things are true.
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Hi Raine!
I linked to your post here a couple weeks ago, but I’m not by my computer right now (I’m on my phone), feel free to add your link here if you’d like to.
Kelly
Amy says
Thanks for sharing this. Agreed!
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Everyone has kept things mostly respectable so far & I want to say thank you. Disagreeing & lively discussions are all great, but Sarah & Ann Marie are both good friends so I just want to ask that we continue to keep our comments kind. Thanks! 🙂
Kel
D. says
My daughter says she uses Whole Foods just like any other grocery store. With caution. She buys veggies and fruits there and that’s it, and only then if it’s not Farmers Market season. She buys no meat there (because you really have no idea where it came from or it’s quality – do you? Show me evidence, she says), nothing in a box or a can (and she says she doesn’t buy that at any grocery or health food store either, and I know she doesn’t) because labeling has become ficticious and almost irrelevant. All good and credible points, no?
Now, I don’t say I agree with her 100% but I don’t have a Whole Foods store nearby (the closest one is in Denver 600 miles away) so it’s a non-issue for me. But if we support the growing evidence that Whole Foods isn’t what it claims to be, aren’t we in essence pretty much still shopping at and supporting walmart type facilities?
She is afraid Whole Foods has compromised themselves and “bargained” away their credibility. I can see her point, but I can see the point of those who feel it’s a “better than anything else” choice.
Ask me if I’m glad we don’t have one in my town . . . yes, I’m willing to live without them. And, for the record, I like Sarah’s blog. Not everything can always be honey-coated so that the whole world will agree with what you say. I don’t always agree with everything she says. But then again, I see no point in bashing Dr. Oz (whom I never watch) and then standing up for Whole Foods. Aren’t they sort of from the same mould? Both of those entities support good and bad in the eyes of SOMEONE.
The whole “let’s be healthy” issue is a slippery slope depending on the amount of wax on your skis.
D. says
I also found this information just today. They are talking about organic produce from China and how edamame was the only thing the reporter (who wrote this article) could find labeled as being from China. Well, I wouldn’t buy edamame anyhow, so it’s also a non-issue for me.
QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: “On its website, Whole Foods insists that “organic products from China can absolutely be certified organic to the exact same standard as domestic products” and “organic integrity is ensured every step of the way” with certifying agents supervised by the USDA.
Benbrook, though, said consumers can’t rely on that. “On paper it’s supposed to be the same, but the reality is that there are substantial issues with organic foods coming out of China.” ” END OF QUOTE
Taken from this link: https://www.boston.com/Boston/dailydose/2011/12/organic-produce-from-china-can-you-trust/YmQ3VXCbRWs57XxJPQVyuO/index.html
The biggere question is, I think, how much produce from anywhere can actually be wholly organic? I mean, with all the air pollution and the planes flying overhead, etc., how truly organic is the soil? Because if the soil ain’t organic, neither is what it produces. It’s a question I’ve yet to find an answer for, and anyone I ask veers away from it mightily.
Emily says
This is a good post, and I totally agree with it.
We shop at Whole Foods occasionally, and I’m glad it’s relatively close. Sometimes I am disappointed with WF products–my husband is severely allergic to MSG, so we read ingredient lists closely, and often WF carries brands that are no better than what we find in our grocery store. However, for every three or four products that we still can’t buy, WF usually has one or two brands that we CAN buy. And that’s an improvement on what I can find at our grocery store, even when we shop at our expensive grocery store that carries more “natural” products.
We’re planning to go to Whole Foods tonight, actually. We’re going to eat fresh cheese pizza, because the ingredient list is safe (!) and it’s the only pizza we can buy. I was elated to discover it, actually, because making pizza takes a while. We’re also going to buy cream. Grocery stores around here carry several brands of cream, and all of them are either ultra-pasteurized (which means it contains msg) or they contain carrageenan, which my husband can’t have because it sometimes contains MSG. There used to be a local brand that was safe, but they started adding carrageenan about a year and a half ago. During the summer, we separate cream from our goats’ milk, but during the winter when we’re paying $7/half gallon of locally produced raw goat milk, we just can’t afford to separate cream. For some reason it is illegal to sell raw cream in our state. So, we were delighted to see that Whole Foods started to carry a cream that my husband could have.
For the basic stuff, we still just shop at the local good grocery store, since it’s closer and usually cheaper than Whole Foods. We go to farmers’ markets during the summer…but we’re really grateful to have Whole Foods nearby, even if they are not perfect. (And, why would anyone even expect them to be?)
Bonny says
I love all the blogs in question–Sarah’s, Kelly’s, and Ann Marie’s. All 3 have given me so much helpful info and many wonderful recipes as I have transitioned my family into a real foods diet over the past year. I think both Sarah and Ann Marie make valid points. Sarah wants to support small, local producers and that’s great! I like her blunt, matter-of-fact style, and don’t get offended if I don’t think the same way she does. I also like that Ann Marie appreciates WF for all the good they are doing. I appreciate all the WAPF bloggers for all the good they’re doing in spreading the message about real food! They have helped me a lot. And I wholeheartedly agree that you should do the best you can and not feel bad about it!
elaine says
well said! I echo your sentiments. On a more personal note – I appreciate that all three of these gals have been very helpful by responding to questions I have put to them on various topics over the past several years. They have helped me along when things felt overwhelming and I appreciate all of them and their differing viewpoints.
Pamela says
I applaud you Ann Marie for speaking out for many of us that agree with you completely. I shop Whole Foods all the time along with our local Natural Food Store and they aren’t perfect either. I also support the locals as both these stores do and grown our own.
Sharin says
WhiLe the nearest Whole Foods is overover an hour away I am blessed to be near some smaller natural food stores and local farms, as well as being able to raise chickens and grow a lot offer own food. When near a whole foods I stop in a buy things I wouldn’t otherwise be able to find near me. I’ve also asked our local grocer to carry full fat yogurt with no luck, when I can I make my own from local raw milk.
Marilyn says
I find it just a wee bit ironic that a post about Whole Foods-bashing inspired so many Sarah-bashing responses. I think it’s great that there are committed, reliable bloggers with different viewpoints on so many issues. Too bad there are so many over-sensitive readers whose feelings get hurt by reading the blog of someone who probably doesn’t even know them.
Neeli says
I disagree with your post. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, however, there is a way to get your point and messages across without the name-calling and condescending, know-it-all, superior attitude. We all are on our own journeys to eating better, but there is never a reason to ridicule a person for having different opinions. That’s the great thing about being an adult and an individual, we can do what works best for us in our own personal lives without feeling guilty if we don’t live by other people’s standards. I supported Sarah and her blog because there is great info on there, but I don’t support a person who feels the need to talk down to people for having their own opinions.
jocelyn357 says
I know my intention is/was not to “bash” Sarah. Sarah is clearly a very bright, intelligent woman. Her site has been helpful to me on more than one occasion, but I’m just being honest when I say her tone has become a turn-off. I don’t think I’m being over-sensitive, and based on comments of this and past posts I’m not alone. I really loved her sight as a resource to give friends new to real foods eating, but I don’t feel comfortable giving it out any more. I don’t want my friends thinking we’re all unfriendly and dogmatic. Thankfully, Kelly does a great job of saying just what she thinks without making everyone else look like dumb-dumb. We should all be on the same team! Doesn’t mean we will all agree on the details, but can’t we embrace kindness and try to tolerate each other’s opinions in a positive way?
jocelyn357 says
Thank you SO much Kelly and AnneMarie for this response. I have been mostly avoiding the Healthy Home Economist blog for a while now because the writing has truly become dogmatic and unhelpful. I know a couple people who are looking to make positive changes to their diet, but found HHE blog to be “rude” and “condescending”, so are now uninterested in WAPF. They’re afraid all WAPFers are elitist. Not so!!! It’s a shame really.
Bottom line for me re: Whole Foods – THANK GOD FOR WHOLE FOODS! I have the luxury of two fantastic farmers I purchase the majority of our food from. They are both organic and pasture based. We also frequent farmers markets in season. I have a FANTASTIC Whole Foods just a mile from my home where I am able to find locally grown produce, grass-finished beef and pork, wild seafood, local artisan grass-fed yogurt, local produced fresh salsa, raw cheeses, etc, etc, etc. Sure, I have to walk by plenty of “healthy junk food”. Doesn’t bother me a bit! I happily walk right by. I check the country of origin on all products I purchase (even though I believe the video Sarah posted was misleading). Thank you Whole Foods for printing a country of origin so I can vote with my dollar! I shop all sale products and use the “Whole Deal” coupons every month.
Do I agree with EVERY practice of WF’s? No – but I also don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Will they get my money for GMO’s? Nope – I buy organic. Do they get my money for organics grown abroad? Nope – I stick to made in USA, preferably regional and local is best. Why should I not shop there? I do. I’m grateful. I enjoy every minute of my Whole Foods shopping and will not be shamed for it.
Neeli says
Very well spoken. I don’t agree with or follow all of the practices that are set by WAPF, but I agree with quite a bit. The info on the blogs through Real Food Media is great and I learn a lot from them. Before I started reading these blogs about a year or more ago, I was already researching and learning about real foods. What I like about these real food blogs is that they expose the dirty secrets of the food industries and they hold nothing back. The info is really good, but over at the HHE, the tone of the blog is a real-turn off because Sarah can be rude and condescending. We real foodies have to stick together and help each other out without making everyone who can’t or choose not to follow all the practices of the WAPF feel inferior and guilty.
kelly v says
When I read the post I sort of felt guilty that WF is my weekly grocery stop. I also shop a market and belong to a local dairy co-op. I’ve been following the HHE blog for a while…Sarah’s very passionate and vocal about what she believes in…there have been SEVERAL times when I just stopped reading. Having said that…she’s answered a number of my emails and has been nothing less than kind.
I do appreciate your opinion on the topic and totally agree. Thanks for being the voice of the WF shoppers.
Bastyrian says
I started boycotting Whole Foods after reading this:
Whole Foods is discriminating against its fat employees by offering their thinner coworkers as much as a 10 percent additional employee discount.
Whole Foods CEO John Mackey explains the program in a letter, reproduced below. Apparently it’s part of an initiative to reduce health care costs, which is interesting since Mackey is against the health care reforms that would actually reduce costs for all people.
Note that Mackey knows BMI isn’t a perfect measure of health, but at least it’s cheap! Even more fun, though, is the poster for the new Healthy Discount program, breaking down exactly what BMI range his minions need in order to get various discounts on his Tofu Pups.
If your BMI is above 30, you’ll get to keep the original 20% employee discount, but you’ll be paying more than your thinner co-workers, who can knock as much as 30% off. Because if public health research has taught us anything, it’s that reducing people’s buying power totally makes them healthier. Stay classy, Whole Foods. (source: https://the-f-word.org)
A few weeks ago I stopped at Whole Foods store, thinking perhaps my boycott was unjustified. When I walked in the main entrance, I saw a large section that was dedicated to gluten free foods. Gluten is a problem for me, so I was intrigued. What I found was shelves full of highly processed “food”. That’s when I knew for certain that Whole Foods really is all about the money. My boycott continues.
I’m lucky to live in the Seattle area where we have the choice to shop, and become a member of a small chain of healthy food stores called PCC (Puget Consumers Co-op). They started as a small food-buying club of 15 families in 1953. PCC is now the largest consumer-owned natural food retail co-operative in the United States. Great store with great people.
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says
That’s too bad. Sounds like a terrible idea.
I wouldn’t boycott a whole store just because they instituted one bad idea.
Again, people do better when they know better.
Nichole says
“From now on, I’ll be avoiding Whole Foods and taking my money elsewhere. I truly believe that raw milk is a “whole food” and I believe that farmers producing raw milk need our support. “-
https://www.cheeseslave.com/whole-foods-permanently-discontinues-raw-milk-nationwide/
Ellen says
Though I don’t always agree with her, I like Sarah because she is consistent and isn’t trying to sell me anything!
NicoleW says
I think it’s hilarious that people are bringing up a post from TWO YEARS AGO! How dare she change her mind. The nerve…
Ellen says
Not hilarious, sad really – one of our local dairies was hit hard by that policy change. Luckily, they held on and now the independent grocers they supply quickly sell out of their raw milk and cream.
We have a lot of options in my area. If I didn’t, I would probably shop at WF, though.
NicoleW says
Maybe you misunderstood. I certainly don’t think the dairy situation was hilarious. I was speaking of the posting’s themselves – bringing up what AnneMarie said a couple years ago to make her seem duplicitous now. Two years later they just aren’t that relevant. How many of us have changed or evolved in our beliefs in two years? I know I have.
Ellen says
I have changed my mind too, definately, but I’m not selling myself as an expert. I don’t read that particular blog any longer but that doesn’t mean I fault anyone who feels differently. I just hope for good food and health for everyone!
Blog authors put themselves in the public eye and for better or worse are held to a higher standard.
Think of it this way – how would people who paid for X online class feel if in two years the author said, no wait, I found something better for health (and I have a new class to help you learn!) I really feel if you’re selling your expertise, you should be pretty sure of where you stand on things.
jocelyn357 says
You know what would be even worse? Paying for X online class, finding out the author found out they were wrong, but didn’t change their curriculum for fear of being judged. Or even worse, dig their heels in and refuse to acknowledge the truth in front of them. How many “vegetarian” doctors (Dr. Fuhrman?) refuse to change their position on fats, even though the cholesterol myth has been debunked time and again.
We will ALWAYS be learning, and yes, sometimes we will learn things that invalidate what we previously thought was true. Anyone who reads blogs with the idea that these people are “expert” proprietors of truth are likely to be very disappointed. The vast majority are lay people and self-taught, just like you and I.
Ellen says
yes, you are right, we should keep up with the most recent information. i trust my TCM doctor to do so but i also trust her 25 years of experience and training. i do not and would not judge X class author for updating a class. but i would judge the class itself – i don’t know anyone with enough disposable income to not judge the products they buy . . . and i’m suspicious of anything with a profit motive! when it comes to health and diet, what is true for you may not be true for me, as far as i understand the only “must” for wapf eating is quality animal fats – everything else was slightly different in the cultures dr. price studied, according to what was available to them, and what their collective wisdom found to be most nutritious. if someone finds paying for a lay class helps them, that is great! but it is not my choice.
Libba letton says
Hi Bastyrian, Libba Letton from Whole Foods Market here. I just want to offer some additional information about the healthy incentives plan for our Team Members. Folks who want to qualify for the tiered discounts are measured not just on their BMI, but also for blood pressure and cholesterol levels, as well as whether they smoke or not. As a way to measure healthy weight, the physicians who designed the plan recognize that using BMI is not flawless, but until something better comes along, that’s what’s available. Lastly, it’s a totally voluntary program. I participated the first year, but have not for the past few years, mostly because I have two small boys and as much as I hate to admit it, exercise has fallen off my list of priorities. I know I wouldn’t qualify for more than my standard 20% discount on all items in the store if I tried.
Lori says
@Libby,
Okay, here is an article I found on their health incentives. I keep answering my own questions. This is so stupid! I’m sorry. I love WFs, but this is the most idiotic thing I’ve heard. I’m sitting here laughing and shaking my head!!!
For anyone else who wants to read about this, here’s the link: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_DietAndFitnessNews/foods-incentives-make-employees-healthier/story?id=9680047&page=2#.T2TG2Xlr6So
Anyway, it doesn’t make me want to stop shopping at WFs, but it does make me wish I was a lawyer because this is a lawsuit waiting to happen!
Libba Letton says
Hi Lori, see my response to this in my comment further up the chain.
sa'ada says
hi libba, first i want to say thanks for seeking out opportunities to interact with customers.
regarding the program, when i first heard about it, i assumed that the higher discount would go to the unhealthier employees. you know, as a way to encourage them to buy healthy foods from whole foods as opposed to shopping at a regular grocery store.
it seems to me that the program should offer the ‘unhealthier’ employees a larger discount on whole, unprocessed foods like fresh produce, dairy, meat, whole grains, beans, nuts. and maybe as an incentive, ‘healthier’ employees could be given an extra discount on those foods as well as processed foods and personal care products.
to make healthier food more expensive for unhealthy people in order to make them healthier is counterintuitive (at best).
Magda says
I love Sarah’s blog and I appreciate all the research she does but sometimes her posts come through as a bit harsh. I shop at WF every week – as other posters mentioned it’s a nice one-stop shop for many natural items. I do buy eggs, produce, honey and meats locally as much as possible (pretty much exclusively for honey and meats). WF is the best place to get some other items: Applegate hot dogs, honey bacon for GAPS, seafood, etc. I agree: local is best but many people have restrictions they can’t get around so having a WF helps a lot. I won’t buy anything GMO or soy or such there, but don’t mind paying for good quality items.
Lori says
Thanks for the post. I was really put-off by Sarah’s post. I love her blog, but sometimes she does get a little extreme, and I don’t think WFs is anything like Walmart.
Anyway, I appreciate the more gentler approach; although, I hope I never have to shop at WalMart.
Before I get produce at WFs, I always try to get it from a Farmer’s Market first!
Naomi Williams says
I just checked the Cheeseslave website and I can’t find the article you’re all talking about; did she take it down?
Naomi Williams says
Never mind; just discovered that I should have been looking at the Healthy Home Economist.
Kellie Hill says
Thanks for showing both sides. It’s easy to jump on a bandwagon and forget that life is not a one-size-fits-all journey. If people can make local farmer’s markets, co-ops, or grow their own – that’s the best. But when we want the convenience of a market I appreciate that they are trying to offer better solutions. No, they aren’t perfect, but unfortunately the masses still want processed foods. A middle ground is a great starting point.
Natasha Boss says
I love this post! Thank you. I read the blog post comparing Whole Foods to Walmart. In my area, Whole Foods is the only place I can get some of the things I buy. I still support local farms. I go get my milk, eggs, and meat directly from the farm. But there are some things that Whole Foods is the only place I can find them at.
heather says
Great post! One other thing that I appreciate about Whole Foods is that it is a great place to grab healthy snacks while traveling. I am blessed to live in an area where there are a number of wonderfully, healthy food options. My favorite is Azure Standard, an on-line source for well-priced health foods, but I realize that not everyone has that as an option. And when I am away from home, it is so nice to have Whole Foods as an option.
Michelle says
Great article! I appreciate what WF does. They actually created a job just for a family member who needed a job but couldn’t do most jobs with her limitations. We were all impressed. Many of the employees were incredibly helpful about teaching me things about cheeses, meats, etc. There is no WF where I live now, so I’m definitely getting into the local scene. 🙂
Lisa Guinn says
Kelly,
I just wanted to say thank you, I think your positive attitude/outlook is the right one to have! I think we all need to do our part and spending our money on non-GMO items is one way to make a point. I think we need to educate people and make wise choices, what is the old saying…. you catch more flies with honey?
Keep up the good work,
Lisa
[email protected] says
Great post – I agree that no one is perfect and it’s better to educate or help others than to just bash them. I shop at Whole Foods about once a month – there are items there that I can get for a decent price that are hard to find elsewhere. Yes, I buy my meat from a local farmer and participate in a CSA, but grains, fish, and baking goods are harder for me to find locally sourced!
Brianne says
This was a great post. It really put into words how I feel about demonizing companies that are trying. It’s so easy to complain about how things aren’t perfect. But I think we all lead happier, healthier lives when we take a deep breath and make the most of what we have. I wish I could buy raw milk and soaked nuts at Whole Foods, but I’m happy that I can buy local meats and cheeses. I’m happy that they carry all the dried fruits that I don’t dehydrate myself. I’m happy that they have the unique vegetables I can’t find at other grocery stores or even my local farmers market. I believe in being an educated consumer and making the choices that are best for me, but I don’t think it’s wrong for others to want to eat differently than I do. And I certainly don’t want Whole Foods to close…then who would buy my horseradish from? 🙂
Amy says
Hmmm…I don’t boycott Whole Foods or anything, but I refuse to support them financially. Not because they’re not perfect, but because they are big business. I support my tiny local health food store run by a lovely family of immigrants from South America. They are not perfect either, and the store sure isn’t fancy and it’s cramped in there. But, it makes me feel good. At the end of the day, Whole Foods is just another big corporate entity and I don’t agree with their policies. We do vote with our pocketbooks, and I prefer to support the little guys.
Clair says
Love this post! Really was disgusted with Sarah Pope’s post about Whole Foods. Yes, they do a lot of things wrong – I have repeatedly told them they need to carry some milk and cream that is not ultrapasteurized – but they are the best I have where I live. No one is perfect – not even Sarah Pope – even if she thinks she is.
Christina says
The main reason I go to WF is because it’s the ONLY place I can find cream that is not ultrapasteurized. Interesting that the selection varies so much from store to store. I guess it makes sense though since WF carries items from local producers.
[email protected] says
I have also found cream there that is not ultrapasteurized. It is the ONLY place I have found it!
Nickole
DeputyHeadmistress says
I don’t even think the scathing indictments of Whole Foods are about Monsanto and GMOs. It’s political. This is backlash that started when, during the Health Care debate, it was revealed that the CEO is not a Progressive, but a libertarian. There are probably people who jumped on board without realizing where it started.
I feel guilty that you are the first person who ever asked about whole milk yogurt. I go out of my way looking for it, and it never occurred to me to tell either the store managers or the yogurt companies that whole milk is what I want.
Peggy S. says
Thanks for the great post. Whole Foods serves a lot of communities that otherwise would have very few options for purchasing nourishing foods. Besides, not every local farmer is providing good food. Be careful to ask about their seeds (GMO?), methods of fertilizing, and whether they spray with pesticides. And your local “health food store” items and supplements may for the most part be “junk food.” If you’re going to attack one store, you need to look at them all, including the very nice, but maybe uninformed produce farmer down the road.
Elisabeth says
Thank you for writing this post. Those of us who have no choice but to shop at Whole Foods for certain items appreciate it! We have a local, organic, GMO free chain here as well…but they charge (no joke) 3-4 times as much as Whole Foods. We are a single income homeschooling family, and I simply can’t afford to just buy from a place because it’s local. I can, however, shop at Whole Foods (full of smiling employees) and pick my own NON GMO items off the shelf that are clearly labeled. (thank you very much!) Our Walmart is beginning to carry more and more in the way of natural and organic products, but THEY COST MORE THAN WHOLE FOODS! Imagine that!
leigh says
the only thing i’ve found so far (that i use) is the organic expeller-pressed coconut oil. the only kicker is that it is refined vs. unrefined, but it’s the least worst on the shelf i suppose. i honestly can’t remember half the time why expeller-pressed and unrefined are the preferred choice – if someone asks me why this is important, i couldn’t explain it to them. haven’t gotten that lesson ingrained yet, still just scratching the surface.
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
Unrefined/expeller pressed is for when you don’t want any Coc taste in what you’re cooking. Unrefined/virgin has more nutrients, though. Both can be found on my resources page. 🙂
stephanie says
This was a great post, and I agree with all your points from a real food standpoint. However, as a Catholic, I do not shop at Whole Foods. I am a long time subscriber to Life Decicisions International, this organization researches and publishes a list of organizations that financially support planned parenthood. Finding Whole Foods on this list was absolutely heartbreaking to me! Yes, it is impossible to boycott every company, but this is something that I can do, and it is just as important to me to show my kids that even though a company may be trying to do good in one area, we cannot ignore the bad it may also be doing in another. Please check out the LDI website at https://www.fightpp.org/ and I think you’ll agree that their methods are sound.
Diane says
Thank you for the link re Planned Parenthood.
Libba letton says
Hi Stephanie, Libba Letton from Whole Foods Market here. I just want to let you know that no Whole Foods Market stores have donated to PP in years and years. For some reason, we’ve had trouble getting our name removed from LDI’s list. Most of the company’s donations to nonprofits happen on a local level, with each store getting to decide who in its community to support.
Thanks, all — great discussion going on here!
Lori says
@Libba Letton ,
Personally, I support PP, but that’s a whole other discussion. Now, if WFs has or had donated to a white supremacist group I’d have an issue with them, but PP, I’m fine with that.
Our WFs donates to local nonprofits that I support, and I’m happy to see that they do; although, the amount they donate seems pretty pathetic when I think about how much they make.
I do have a question for you. Someone on another post (or it might have been here) said that WFs gives a different discount to their heavier employees than their thinner employees to promote health. He said that heavier employees get 20% discount and thinner ones get 30% discount.
Is that true? I’m hoping it’s not because I think that’s pretty idiotic.
Libby, are you a manager or something at WFs?
Thanks.
Lori says
@Libby,
Okay, I just saw your answer below. So, you can get better discounts on some foods because you are “healthier”? Okay, I think that’s pretty lame and kind of “weightiest/healthiest” especially considering that ideas like good and bad cholesterol are changing as we speak. I’m surprised no one has sued WFs for that.
What are the discount differences? What do workers think about it? I’m sure someone thinks this is a great idea, but personally it would keep me from working at WFs. Is there a place where we can find out more about the plan? I’d like to write a letter to WFs voicing my opinion on this one.
Libba letton says
Hi Lori — sorry for the delay since yesterday. I work in media relations at The Whole Foods corporate headquarters in Austin, and the rest of my team handles incoming questions and issues from customers across the US & Canada.
I want to give you some in-depth answers to your questions about the design of the healthy eating initiative, its acceptance and participation rates among employees, and how it’s evolved since its introduction, but it’s the weekend and I don’t have most of that info available to me at home. Same for facts about our corporate donations. If you’ll indulge me, I’ll get the facts when I’m back in the office and report back here.
Libba Letton says
Lori – here’s what I found out. First, the program’s main intent is to support employees and offer awareness of their status in the four areas measured. Regarding cholesterol, the program measures both HDL and LDL cholesterol levels; employees get a discount based on meeting criteria for total cholesterol or a set HDL/LDL ratio.
After the first year of offering this program, our science & medical advisory board added waist-to-height ratio that can be used as an alternative to BMI; the better of the two scores can be used to determine the discount level. The overall program is being tweaked as we go.
The parameters that our science & medical advisory board created are designed to help employees not only experience relative good health, but to achieve the potential to actually prevent and reverse disease. That’s what I think is interesting about this; we are exploring the power of food and lifestyle changes to change people’s lives.
In addition to nutrition and cooking classes, most notable are our healthy immersion programs, where employees travel to various sites around the country to spend three, five, or ten days giving up their current food lifestyles and embracing a mostly plant-based, nutrient rich diet of whole, unprocessed foods. They learn the science behind the nutrition, they learn how to shop for and cook a whole foods diet, they practice yoga, exercise and have fun. I don’t have numbers on this, but many people who’ve completed immersion programs have been able to stop taking their prescription drugs for diabetes, blood pressure, and cholesterol and remain committed to a plant-based, whole foods diet. These programs are 100% paid for by Whole Foods Market – employees use their own vacation time, but pay nothing. So far, more than 1,350 employees have completed immersion programs, and dozens more will attend immersions over the rest of this spring and summer. Healthy eating is a big part of our culture. Since January of this year more than 9,000 of our 65,000 employees have participated in our 28-Day Challenge (plant-based whole foods diet).
Regarding corporate donations, Whole Foods Market gives back at least five percent of our after-tax profits to the communities we serve. I’m waiting on the 2011 number, but in 2010, our stores raised a combined total of more than $4.5 million on our 5% Days alone.
We also donate products and services to local causes, and our employees give their time and expertise to nonprofit organizations within their communities. At a global level, our sponsorship/partnerships dollars are primarily spent to support projects that directly relate to organics and environmentally friendly production methods; animal welfare; sustainable seafood; and healthy families and nutrition.
I’m happy to answer more questions. Thanks for the opportunity to tell you what I know.
Lori says
@Libba Letton
Thanks for responding. I find this all very interesting, but if I was an employee at WFs, I’d have an issue. I think it’s great that they are promoting health, but they are promoting THEIR agenda. I do not believe plant based diets are great for everyone. I believe a Nourishing Traditions diet is the way to go. Now, some people might eat more veges, some more dairy, etc. I know there is a lot of research regarding plant based diets, but there are a lot of people who show that a purely plant based diet can be dangerous.
Either way, I have problems with other parts of the program that are looking at “traditional” ways to measure health. For instance, I lost 50 pounds by cutting out carbs. One would think that my cholesterol and glucose levels would go down, but that wasn’t the case. So, all of my hard work would not have been rewarded. And, on that note, I’ve been gaining weight, not because I’m now eating a crap diet. I think I’m gaining weight because I caused an underlying thyroid issue to pop up because of my diet.
I go back and forth on whether a corporation should really delve into a person’s health. There is a part of me that likes it, but I’m not sure I really like the way WFs is going about it.
Anyway, as far as how they donate, I think they do a good job overall. And, I appreciate the information. I like WFs and I think like any business they could do better, but they are a business and I think people have to remember this.
Libba letton says
@Lori, I hear you about making room for different diets, and that is very much what I see happen at work. The immersion programs have a particular focus towards plant-based, but lots of people take what they learn and adapt it to their own dietary preferences, whether that includes meat, dairy, healthy oils, etc. There’s no atmosphere of pressure. The vibe is “whatever your food trip is.”
D. says
Whole Foods is then promoting cholesterol checks and plant based diets?
It would be good if places like WF would stop promoting the nonsense about “cholesterol” until they learn the truth (and it won’t be learned from the medical dogma). Reading (& selling!) books like The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov and following the articles through the Weston A. Price web site regarding the disjointed idea that “high” cholesterol is bad might be of more benefit to the employees than trying to “lower” cholesterol. High cholesterol is better than low.
For those of you whose feelings seem to be hurt by people who are direct, I’m sorry for the directness of this post, but the sooner corporate folks start grasping the obvious (about cholesterol) and putting the facts into practice, the sooner everyone will learn the truth.
jocelyn357 says
Libba – Thanks SO much for posting this, because it’s been bugging me. We do NOT support Planned Parenthood, and I’m glad to hear this is a “former” practice.
Stephanie says
Quote from LDI’s website…
“A company will be dropped as a boycott target if it stops funding Planned Parenthood for at least five years (automatically) or if a corporate official states that the pro-abortion group will be made ineligible for support in the future (immediate removal from The Boycott List). It is the responsibility of corporate officials to notify LDI if a company qualifies for removal from The Boycott List.”
Clearly, it has not been more than 5 years, or no corporate official has made an official statement/policy regarding the matter. It doesn’t matter if it’s only on the local level.
Julie says
I agree completely, Kelly! I, too, am thankful for Whole Foods. I can afford their prices (on most things) but I can’t always afford farmer’s market prices. Plus we don’t have any really good ones near where we live. Thanks for the post — if I had a blog, I’d have written the same thing!
Marta says
Kelly, you just became my favorite blogger! 🙂
I also don’t understand why they were so many posts lately about how bad Whole Foods is. Yes, they’re not perfect, but compare them to the average supermarket! I don’t hear anyone blaming the other stores for things Whole Foods is blamed. I buy a lot from farmers and will continue to do that, but for those that don’t have that option here, WF is the ONLY store that carries low-pasteurized milk from grass-fed cows, pastured eggs and good quality sea-food. Their organic items are often cheaper than in regular grocery store. I buy dr. Bronner’s soap there, because it’s the cheapest there. I buy POMI tomatoes, I cannot find them elsewhere. I hope they will keep improving, but they’re still way ahead of the average supermarket. You know what else I like? When I enter an average supermarket I’m greeted by boxes of sugary cereals, easter candy and all that crap. I enter WF and the first thing I see is a beautiful array of fruits and veggies. As a mom shopping with toddler, I really appreciate that!
jocelyn357 says
I rarely enter a “regular” grocery store, because I don’t need to. When I do, I realize how incredible blessed (SPOILED!) we are to have my local farmers and Whole Foods. I mean, you reallllly have to dig deep in a regular grocery store to find something remotely healthy and unadulterated.
jill says
I just love you, Kelly! Thank you for reminding us to extend grace! This post reminds me of that verse (Romans 2:4) that says it is God’s kindness that leads us to repentance. Until Monsanto and their compatriots are closed down, we don’t have the luxury of “checking our brains at the door” of any store, whether it’s whole foods or any other. We have to know which crops are most likely GM unless they are certified organic and read labels, no matter where we are. By putting our money towards organic and non-GM foods in ANY store, we are strengthening responsible, sustainable agriculture and weakening unsustainable agriculture, while “voting” with our dollar. Nothing speaks as loud as money to retailers, but by avoiding imperfect retailers altogether, we lose the opportunity to vote with them. I wish we had a Whole Foods here, or any health food store for that matter! Until then, I vote with my dollars at HEB, Sam’s Club, and Walmart (though I buy most of my meat, all my eggs, and most of my veggies through the local CSA during its season).
Here’s a tough one to chew on…since almost all cottonseed oil is GM, what about cotton clothes? Yikes, to be a purist all the way means forking out serious cash for all organic clothing….
Naomi Williams says
The only reason I rarely go to Whole Foods is because I have cheaper access to most of my weirdo ingredients at Trader Joes.
Agree about the Organic Certification thing. The grass-fed beef I get at the farmer’s market is not certified organic even though it is, because Farmer John (who’s in his 80s) refuses to go through the certification process. Which is why he can afford to sell the ground beef for $4 a pound.
Rebecca In Michigan says
This is a great post and thanks for sharing it.
I live in a small town that is about an hour to Grand Rapids, East Lansing, Okemos, or Mt. Pleasant. All of these places have some kind of Health Foood Store. Because of the distance, I order from three different co-ops online; CLNF, UNFI, and a produce co-op (can’t remember the name). I also shop at Krogers and Walmart, but goal by the end of this year I plan to only purchase items from those three co-ops. Plus, we have our own garden that we use. Krogers and Walmart will be used as an emergency.
Maryjane says
I drive an hour to get to Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s (across the street from each other!). My local Meijer tries its best to carry some organic produce, but there are some things that I can only get at Whole Foods, like organic parsley, young coconuts, and raw or grassfed cheese. Bloggers who live in warm climates like Florida need to remember that some of us don’t have access to locally grown food for 7 months of the year.
One thing I’m learning — bloggers are just people. I learn from them, but I sure don’t agree with them all the time. We gotta think for ourselves!!
Musings of a Housewife says
And also, I hardly ever shop at Whole Foods. I’m blessed to have a small, locally owned “whole foods” type of store that is totally GMO free and sources locally and all those wonderful things. Of course there is plenty of junk too, but it’s a great place to have nearby. There are also farmers markets everywhere, and also farms, as I live in Pennsylvania. But still, I realize that I am blessed and not everyone has all these great local resources.
Musings of a Housewife says
Can I just say, thank you SO MUCH for this post. It’s great to be passionate about a topic, but when you become extreme and closed-minded, you turn off the very people who could benefit from your wisdom, and then we all lose.
The arguments in this post are rational and thoughtful and I appreciate the common sense. So thanks, Ann Marie, and thanks, Kelly, for posting it.
Neeli says
I love this post. I have never shopped at a Whole Foods store in Michigan because we don’t have one in Grand Rapids, but there is one here in North Carolina where I am. I don’t like to shop at Wal-Mart either, but I only buy foods that I know is real. I don’t buy fake cereals that are laced with GMO’s or HFCS. I have always loved your blog because you allow others to voice their opinions without accusing them of being from Big Dairy or being fearmongers. I also appreciate the fact that you don’t resort to name-calling or pettiness like the other person mentioned. Lastly, I love the fact that you are from my homestate. I will be moving back in a couple of months and can’t wait to support local farmers and food producers. I had no clue as to how many real food resources that we had in Michigan. As they say, “there’s no place like home”. As corny as that may sound, I now realize how true that saying is. Thanks for all you do with this blog and allowing people to voice their opinions without blocking them. You make Michigan proud.
Kelly the Kitchen Kop says
You are sweet. I wanted to ask you to be sure to join our local WAPF chapter when you move back!
Kelly
Neeli says
Congrats on the new local chapter. I saw a while back that you had a group for the WAPF on Meetup.com. You’re doing big things and I’m happy to know that there are tons of good resources for food in our hometown. I will surely look into it further to see if I may want to join. Thanks for asking.
Betsy says
I’m lucky to have the best of both worlds: a Whole Foods store with a great farmer’s market in their parking lot on Sunday mornings. Doesn’t get much better than that! I don’t buy much in WF, but there are times when I need a particular out-of-season veggie that I can’t find in the regular grocery store, or an exotic spice, or a GF baked good.
Natalie says
I totally agree with and appreciate your post. I don’t like scathing posts and actually don’t read that blog because it is always so one-sided and I don’t like the general feeling there at all. Whole Foods is not the enemy or the problem. Monsanto is. Plus, some farmers have wonderful practices but their foods are not always labeled organic.
Neeli says
I agree with you on the fact that the other blog is always one-sided. I was accused of being a fearmonger for voicing my opinion a while back. I was thrown under the bus.
Susan says
I didn’t subscribe to that blog very long either because I felt the tone of it was so condescending and that it bordered on obnoxious. It is not my intent to bash on other people so I quietly unsubscribed and let it go. I feel better now knowing it wasn’t just me who felt the harsh tone from the posts of that blogger.
I read recently that someone said they were going to abandon the WAPF principles, even though they agreed with the philosophy of this way to live. When I read further, I learned that the reason this person was giving it up was because she felt like the people that have anything to do with WAPF were rude. This made no sense to me because so many of the blogs I’ve come to love are written by people who generally seem to care about their readers. Emails I have exchanged with Kelly have been informative, sincere and kind. Ann Marie has always answered my questions on her blog with sincere concern. The emails I’ve exchanged with other WAPF bloggers have always been courteous.
So it baffled me when I read that this person would no longer follow WAPF suggestions because the the “real foodies” were rude. Then I happened across that other blog and suddenly it all made sense.
I don’t have a WF near me. It takes me 4 stores and a farmers market to buy what my family needs. It is time consuming not only because of the running around I am doing, but because of the time it takes to ensure I am buying the best products I can. I would love to be able to condense my errands and have more of what I need from one store! I realize WF wouldn’t solve all my problems, but when you get down to it, what really would? Nothing -and nobody- is perfect. You pick what works for you and ignore the rest…
Amber says
I posted a response on FB but felt like chiming in here as well… unfortunately I have come to share the same opinion regarding Sarah’s blog. Bless her heart, I think her intentions are good and she has done a LOT for WAPF (her videos are great and have taught me a lot) but her blog posts have become relentlessly uncompromising and almost heartless (which I’m sure is NOT her intention). I think a big turning point for me personally has been her stance on using formula if a mother hasn’t had the PERFECT WAPF diet/lifestyle… which is ironic since I did use the WAPF formula because I couldn’t breastfeed due to a myriad of reasons.
Again, I am sure her intentions are good but her passion has come to override a common sense approach and could use a lesson that it is easier to catch flies with honey. It’s unfortunate that her writing style has turned people off. Ann Marie and Kelly are always so kind and Ann Marie especially has always been my “go to” person for stupid questions yet she never makes me feel stupid and always answers my questions 🙂
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist says
If I shopped at Whole Foods and spent money there that I could have spent at a locally owned healthfood store or farmer’s market, I personally would not be able to sleep at night.
Sarah H. says
Would I lose sleep because of shopping at Whole Foods? Uh, no.
Would I lose sleep if I couldn’t afford to feed my family? Way more likely.
I will continue to use my money supporting all of the businesses I care about. None of them is perfect, not even my little ol’ beloved co-op.
I needed 100% cranberry juice recently. My co-op, which I support by being a member and shopping there weekly, carried it for $9.00. Trader Joe’s had it for $4.00. (We don’t have a Whole Foods yet.) I did not lose sleep over spending the money at TJ’s. My co-op can’t come anywhere close to matching the price of Trader Joe’s, but they’ve got TJ’s beat when it comes to reasonably priced local produce. Since I had time and money enough to shop more than one store, I bought the juice at TJ’s and the veggies at the co-op. Both businesses got some of my money, and both received positive comments from me when I shopped there. These are both *local* businesses because they employ people from my community. I like them both–for different reasons.
I enjoy this kind of economic freedom.
I don’t enjoy being bullied about where I spend my money, and frankly, that’s what it feels like when I read that someone would “lose sleep if they spent money at such and such store.”
Kristin says
I agree with all of you about the other blog. It was my first real exposure to WAPF and I did not walk away with positive impressions. Fortunately I didn’t give up before finding this and other blogs.
I disagree with Amber that the uncompromising and heartless stances are not the intent, though. Anyone with a dissenting opinion, no matter how mildly it differs, is viciously attacked on that blog–often by the author herself. She has very negative energy and is clearly an angry person. I think WAPF does itself a huge disservice by linking to her blog.
As far as Whole Foods, I think it’s always better to shop locally, but not everyone has consistent access to local foods–especially in the winter months. I buy all of my meats and most of my fruits and veggies from local farmers, but I don’t have a lot of other options for things like nuts, dried legumes, dairy, artisan cheeses, coconut oil, bananas, citrus, etc. I can get some of it from Azure Standard, but that isn’t local either–it’s just usually cheaper since items are purchased in bulk. There don’t seem to be any local health food stores in my area so, for me, Whole Foods picks up the slack. I am thankful to live near one. Without it, my only other options would be Kroger or, worse, Wal-Mart.
ToughCub says
Good post! Great explanation to hear regarding Sarah’s post.
Wendy (The Local Cook) says
we don’t have a Whole Foods near us (I don’t think) but we have so many other great stores like Nourish, Harvest Health, etc. that I don’t feel like I’m missing out. And yes I do shop at places that aren’t perfect as I’m not either 🙂 But, I do the best I can.