Some Background on Making Homemade Bread in the BOSCH

October 26, 2008 · 57 comments

Bosch, Bread, Butter

Sorry it took me a while to get this homemade bread recipe to you. I kept wanting to get it just right, but finally figured that instead, I’ll post where I’m at now and keep you updated on my progress. I’m very close…

(Feel free to skip this background info and go right to the homemade bread recipe.)

This homemade bread turns out better than store bought bread! It has great flavor and texture, and because of how well the Bosch works the dough, it is so soft. It rises well, slices well, keeps well, and even comes out of the freezer well. Kids love it, too. Not only that, it’s organic, almost all whole grain, easy, and economical. One of the best things, though, is that it is also soaked, which means that just by starting the recipe the night before, it is much morenutritious because the phytic acid is broken down, and mineral absorption isn’t blocked.

HERE’S THE VERY BEST PART

In the Bosch you can make up to 6 LOAVES OF BREAD AT ONCE! (I’ve done 5 with best results, and even up to 7 loaves before, but that’s not recommended!)

Years ago when I first had myfood conversion“, I went crazy in the kitchen. Kent gave the thumbs up to get a Nutrimill (to grind all our own fresh grains for more nutrition), and I began my quest to make a delicious, soaked, organic, 100% whole wheat bread that everyone would love. I never quite got there, they were good right out of the oven, but became hard quickly. We’ve tried various loaves from the store, but could never find anything just right…

  • If you don’t buy organic, the loaves are soft, but most have trans fats and high fructose corn syrup.
  • If it’s organic and really whole grain, then it is often too heavy tasting and nobody will eat it. (First ingredient must say “whole wheat flour”, or “whole spelt flour“, or whatever grain it is made from, otherwise it is mostly white flour.)
  • I finally found one everyone loved that is organic, fermented (similar to “soaked“), and 100% whole wheat, and it’s all we ate for years, but it is $3.00 to $3.69 per loaf. (Little Rooster breadmade on the same farm where we buy our raw milk.)

I’ve made a rough estimate that this bread costs less than a dollar per loaf!

Probably much less, actually. And this is organic, soaked, with no preservatives, no high fructose corn syrup, no trans fats, no ingredients you can’t name, and it’s still as soft, delicious, and sandwich-ready as store-bought! And the Bosch makes it SO easy, too.

Enter my beautiful Bosch and Shauna

She convinced me that her recipe for 6 loaves at once of 100% whole wheat bread in the Bosch really was delicious and that her whole family loved it. She said it came out very soft, even after being frozen a couple weeks. (I’m adding her original recipe to the end of this post, but remember that one isn’t soaked.)

Again, my awesome husband gave the thumbs up for this big purchase, and now he’s really glad he did, because we all love the bread, and we’re saving a lot of money each month. Considering the amount of bread we can go through around here with 4 kids and my home day care, (PBJ’s and grilled cheese are a staple), it won’t be too long before we get all this money back and more.

THE PERFECT LOAF OF HOMEMADE BREAD…ONLY ONE “BUG” TO WORK OUT

I need your opinion on my only dilemma. Until I have time to experiment with the natural dough enhancers (a reader, Susan, gave me a good list to try and she’s had good luck using vitamin C), in order to have a soft loaf I’ve had to decide between these two options – please tell me which one you think is better:

So far I have chosen the first one: having an almost 100% whole grain loaf of bread, but I’d love to hear your thoughts. Part of the problem is my rotten memory. Not long ago I read something about gluten being bad news, even if you’re not gluten intolerant. I was so convinced, I threw out the vital wheat gluten that I would use now and then when I tried homemade bread. But now I don’t remember specifically what I read or where I read it (couldn’t find it with a google search), and also, I may be mixing up gluten flour and vital wheat gluten – seems like I also read somewhere that these are two different things. HELP READERS! Surely someone out there knows the answers on this.

By the way, I have been trying to add more and more whole grain flour these past few weeks without using any gluten to see how close to 100% I could get, but I’ve had some bombs. Our teenager has complained, but Kent has been so cool about it…even as he’s fishing his broken apart bread from the toaster yet again! So for now I’ll stick with the 2/3 whole grain loaf, and I’m just going to enjoy that everyone is eating it and loving it again, before I go changing and experimenting more.

I can’t wait for you to see how beautiful this bread comes out, so soft and delicious!

BUY THE BOSCH

GO TO THE BREAD RECIPE

Shauna’s original (unsoaked) 100% whole wheat bread recipe:

Here is my Bosch recipe.  It is originally Patty LaVanture’s from Country Life, but they’re vegan, so I’ve changed is considerably.  They like to use ground flax, soy lecithin, and vegetable oil.  I’ve also increased the honey so that it makes a nice “honey whole wheat”.

5 c water – room temp, or cool!
1/2 c coconut oil, melted
1 c raw honey
2 eggs
1 T salt
1 c gluten flour
3 1/2 T yeast (I like to use the SAF yeast, but I know others who have
good results with Red Star)
8 c fresh milled whole wheat flour (I use hard white wheat, prairie gold
brand)
more flour as needed

Combine ALL of the above ingredients in the bosch bowl.  Jog switch to combine.  Put the lid on, keeping the small inner lid off, turn the machine on “speed 1″ and add remaining flour 1/2 c at a time until it cleans the sides of the bowl, feels “soft with some resistance”.  Put all lids on, leave on speed 1 and set timer for 14 minutes to knead.

Take dough out, divide into 6 equal pieces, shape into loaves and let rise.  (I use the smaller bread pans so I get 6 of those loaves out of this recipe.)  When more than double in size, place in a cool oven and turn on to 350, setting timer for 25 minutes.  (This only works for an ELECTRIC oven…. if you have gas, preheat oven to 350, bake for 20 minutes).

*

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    { 57 comments… read them below or add one }

    1 Julie October 27, 2008 at 3:48 am

    Hi Kelly,
    This is wonderful of you to put the time and effort into getting a perfect loaf of whole grain bread. I have been grinding wheat and making bread for years. I have used dough enhancer and wheat gluten as an additive, but in the last fews years have given up on adding them. I find the bread is good without these, especially if you are eating the bread up pretty quickly. Also, a little secret: I switched bread pans. I now use the darker “Norpro” 8X4 inch pan (got them thru Urban Homemaker)–the design of the pan and the darker finish makes for a nice rise and a nice crust. I also like your idea of adding in the 1/3 amount of unbleached white. I’m going to do that. Thanks again.

    Reply

    2 Candace @ A Garden of Blessings October 27, 2008 at 5:39 am

    Hi Kelly,
    You might try kneading with sprouted wheat flour. Sue Gregg’s recipe calls for using either that or unbleached white flour. I use her recipe all of the time and it is awesome!-
    http://agardenofblessings.blogspot.com/2008/06/sue-greggs-bread-recipe.html

    Reply

    3 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 27, 2008 at 6:16 am

    Julie,

    Thanks for the tip on the pan, what is the finish on that?

    Candace,

    I hesitate in using my sprouted flour for this recipe since I have the soaking part down – this way I can save my sprouted flour for things I can’t get to work with soaking, like cookies and muffins. (I’ll post these after experimenting.) But are you saying the sprouted flour acts as a dough enhancer?

    Thanks,
    Kelly

    Reply

    4 Julie October 27, 2008 at 7:32 am

    I looked up Norpro pans –heavy duty steel is what they are made of. I don’t think it’s the same as stainless steel. Marilyn at Urban Homemaker recommends not washing them in soap and water but wiping them out after bread baking. I think that this prevents rusting–the pans are not like most in that these have seams at the corners.

    Reply

    5 Michigan Mom2three October 27, 2008 at 7:45 am

    I use the same Norpro pans (got them from UH) and they ARE awesome. Once I switched, I got a far better rise than in my old pans.

    Kelly – I’m hoping someone here will know, but when I went to the Nourishing Ways meeting on bread making last May, one of the leaders there told me that you only get about 20% phytic acid breakdown with an overnight soak. A true sourdough bread that uses a starter and is made over several days will approach 70%, but that you can never achieve 100% phytate breakdown. (I’m not sure how this compares with the sprouted flours…..) So – for me, I have continued to just make my bread as usual, because I’m usually not organized enough to get it going the night before (I’m lucky to get my pancake batter soaking!). It’s on the “good, better, best” spectrum for me….. since none of us have issues with wheat, and since we eat a large VARIETY of grains on a regular basis (variety of rices, spelt, oats, barley, wheat, organic corn), and since grains are not the primary part of our diet – I just go ahead an make it the way I normally do.

    Also – with the vital gluten, I have been able to cut that back to a scant 3/4 c. When you divide that out into the 6 loaves, you’re getting less than 1/6 cup per loaf – divide that out into an individual slice, and it seems to me to be a small amount. I would rather have the added benefits of the 100% fresh milled whole wheat and just a little of the vital gluten. I’d be curious to know what others have to say about the gluten though…. I’m only using what seems “common sense” to me – but I could be way off too!

    If I get on the ball and am organized – I plan to give your soaked bread recipe a try!

    Shauna

    Reply

    6 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 27, 2008 at 9:13 am

    Oh MAN, I wish I had known that BEFORE I ordered my new stainless steel pans, but I still get a good rise in those, so I’ll just be happy. :) Plus these are really easy to wash and have never rusted at all.

    Shauna, I think your reasoning is smart (going by common sense, too), but figured that since I’ve figured out a way to get rid of (at least SOME) phytic acid, I may as well.

    Same with the gluten, if I don’t figure out what it was that I had heard that made me throw mine out, I may just bite the bullet and buy more so I can make a 100% whole grain loaf. First I’ll experiment with the natural dough enhancers when I get the inclination…I’m sick of thinking about bread right now!

    By the way, do you know how I make myself remember to start some things the night before? (I’m sure that most who know me have already come up with the answer!) I put it in my Palmer – I have to put everything in there or nothing gets done around here. My memory has gone to mush because of it, though!

    Kelly

    Reply

    7 green mom for Jesus October 27, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    You are so awesome to get this recipe together. Thanks!
    I do not have a BOSCH at this time (until Christmas) and wondered if I could make the bread in my regular bread maker.

    Reply

    8 Michigan Mom2three October 27, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Yeah – I’m with you Kelly – if I remember, GREAT, otherwise, I figure “homeade pancakes with all the good ingredients are still better than a box!”. I’m anxious to try your bread recipe though. I’ve got to do bread this week – so I plan to try it out.

    I’d love to know what the deal with the vital gluten is. What I do find is that I can get by with “less” vital gluten”, but I need “more unbleached flour” to get the same results (speaking in terms of percentages). So I guess I figure that by using the vital gluten, I’m getting more of the fresh milled whole wheat. 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other I’m sure.

    Re: a palmer – I have to say that I’m still in the dark ages…… I still use paper and pencil, and I have 2 binders that I’ve made myself….. a “Household Notebook” and a “Homeschool Notebook”. I use the old fashioned dividers, and plan everything on paper, or maybe the computer…. but all my stuff can be found there. I joke with my dh that “I can’t think properly w/o paper and pencil!” I’ve even got an “old-fogie” non flip-phone….. I just want to make a phone call, I can’t deal with all that other junk! I did recently get a new digital camera – a HUGE breakthrough for me….. but I have to carry the manual in my purse and look up how to do something EVERYTIME! So – if I want to remember to do something – it goes on an old fashioned post-it note in a prominent place! :)

    Shauna

    Reply

    9 theMom October 27, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Hi Kelly,

    I don’t know if any of this will be helpful. I gave up making homemade bread when my husband found out he had celiac disease. And since 80% of the pleasure of yeast bread is the texture and the other 20% is the smells of the fresh wheat, I stopped trying. We just don’t eat bread on a regular basis any more. But here are a few thoughts.

    Laurel Robertson, of The Laurel’s Kitchen books, has written a book about making the perfect whole grain loaf of bread. I think it’s called, surprisingly enough, The Bread book. If I remember right, Ms Robertson must have come of age during the 1970s health food era, so she doesn’t use any NT type info. But if you could get the book from the library, you could puruse it to see whether there is info within that might be helpful. I remember being totally keyed upt o try her methods about 12 years ago.

    In my attempts at Gluten Free bread making, here are some texture and lightness improving things that might help. I don’t know any of the science behind them.

    Authentic Foods makes a product called a Dough Enhancer (Ingr. lecithin, ascorbic acid, tapioca, ginger.) It is supposed to improve shelf life and texture. I have no opinion on its efficacy, but many Gluten Free recipes call for it.

    Many recipes call for Apple Cider Vinegar in a small amount as a dough enhancer.

    I save all my potato water from boiled potatoes and use it in various baking.

    Potato starch, tapioca starch, and sweet rice flour (also called glutinous rice flour or sticky rice flour) will also improve texture compared to totally GF grains; I don’t know what they would do compared to the gluten already in whole grain wheat.

    Flax meal for some reason seems to add tons of moisture and body to my GF baking. Although recently someone told me that now some say flax causes cancer- you just can’t win!

    Re Gluten in general and why some choose to avoid it. Although the experts still do not know what causes celiac disease, it is considered an auto-immune response. With that in mind, some experts have theorized that it is brought on by over-exposure to gluten in pre-disposed individuals.

    Who know whether science will ever solve that one, but in support of that theory, I have heard that Italy, think pasta and breads, has the highest incidence of celiac disease of any country world wide and that in Asian countries it is almost unheard of.

    Sorry this is long. Hopefully there is something helpful in it.

    Reply

    10 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 27, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Amy/Green Mom,

    You could try it without the Bosch, but because of how well the Bosch works the dough and develops the gluten, from what I understand, and what I have experienced using my breadmaker and then the Bosch, it really does make a MUCH softer loaf that keeps much better, too (stays soft). And I love that it only takes one rise this way, it’s not a whole day to make bread.

    Shauna,

    SOME days I long to go back to the days with NO electronics in my life! Other days I don’t know how I would get everything done without them…

    Reply

    11 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 27, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    “the mom”,

    Youza, that’s a ton of great info – thanks for sharing it. I still have the same problem as before though – which is a good thing I guess: there are so many natural dough enhancers, I’m not sure which one to try first. I’ll be in the experimenting mood again soon, but when the recipe I use now turns out so good and everyone eats it, I’m just afraid to go backward!

    Thanks again for all the good scoop. :)

    Kelly

    Reply

    12 Candace @ A Garden of Blessings October 27, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Kelly,
    I sprout the wheat berries myself and dehydrate them in order to grind them flour. (So, I don’t worry about using it up!) Sue Gregg’s recipe does not call for any gluten to be added at all ( I wouldn’t use it).
    It calls for apple cider vinegar in the soaking medium and then for kneading either white flour or the sprouted flour in stage 2. I don’t know if it acts as a dough enhancer or not, but it makes really good bread.
    I prefer to soak bacause I find the bread much easier to digest and also the texture is so much more enjoyable.
    I worry about overdoing the gluten exposure and may start trying some GF breads myself.

    Reply

    13 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 28, 2008 at 5:52 am

    Candace,

    I soak my berries, dry, then grind, but it’s quite a process, so that’s why I’m choosy about what I use it for. (Too lazy to go through that very often, I’d rather just grind my berries, then use a good recipe for soaking them.)

    I enjoyed looking around your site. :)

    Kelly

    Reply

    14 Esther October 28, 2008 at 6:42 am

    Just thought I’d say “hi” neighbor! We also get the little rooster bread we love it, and I love that they are local!

    Reply

    15 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 28, 2008 at 7:00 am

    Hi Esther,
    Nice to “meet” you! :)
    Kelly

    Reply

    16 Betsy October 28, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Kelly, what is the Bosch using to mix? I’ve got a KitchenAid mixer with a dough hook. Do you think that might work? How long do you mix the dough?

    There’s no way I can convince myself to buy another mixer – not when I also want a dehydrator and toaster over. :)

    Reply

    17 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 28, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Betsy, I feel your pain, believe me, I’ve got a list of “I wants”, too!

    The Bosch uses dough hooks, so you’re good there, but I don’t know if the K.A. would knead as efficiently as the Bosch (to get the soft loaf that only needs one rise), but you could try it and see. (Let us know, as I’m sure there are others out there who already have a Kitchen Aid, too.)

    You may want to cut it down and only try 2 loaves though. I just saw a Kitchen Aid at my Aunt’s this past weekend and the bowl is a lot smaller.

    Kelly

    Reply

    18 Betsy October 28, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Oh, definitely I would cut down on the size of the recipe. It’s just for me. Two loaves is about a two month’s supply if I’m being good. If not, it’ll maybe last through the weekend, lol.

    Reply

    19 Michigan Mom2three October 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Re: the Kitchen Aid vs.Bosch….. I used a KA before getting my Bosch. The KA has half the horsepower than the Bosch, and I nearly burned the motor out when trying to do my recipe in it. You’ve got to halve the recipe, but you STILL have to be careful. Don’t knead any higher than speed 2, and if it feels hot (and it WILL) TURN IT OFF and finish kneading by hand. Careful examination of the KA manual will reveal that the KA was never designed to knead 100% whole grain doughs… they are simply too heavy and too hard on the motor. (The KA is wonderful for all sorts of other things though!) It was recommended to me to do only enough dough for 1-2 loaves of bread at a time, and to use half WHITE flour.

    The Bosch, on the other hand, is 2x or more the horsepower, and is designed to knead 100% whole wheat dough with no problem of overheating whatsoever. The Bosch “dough hooks” are an entirely different design than the KA. The KA does not knead nearly as effictively. The Bosch compeletely turns the entire dough over and inside itself every 3 rotations. The KA dough hook simply “punches and folds”, and never achieves a full knead.

    Re: the comments on overexposure to gluten (I can’t remember who posted). I have always felt that the problem didn’t lie in “whole grains” but rather in the fact that we’ve refined grains so much over the last decade. People eating refined grains are getting nothing BUT the gluten! No wonder the allergies are skyrocketing! Each generation is pasisng on a weakened disposition toward over-responding to gluten, until finally a generation is born who is flat-out allergic. This is my layman, non-scientific, “common sense mom” idea again….. We’ve decided to not throw out the baby with the bathwater, since we don’t have gluten sensitivities (nor do I in my children), but to try to reverse the trend in our children, hoping that they will in turn pass along a BETTER dispostion to their children. It makes sense that Italy would see the highest celiac – they eat the refined pastas exclusively.

    Some of the dough enhancers can be problematic depending on how you feel about certain things…. for example, lecithin is “dehydrated soy waste” that is left over after they process soy into whatever they’re using it for. Guarenteed to be genitically modified, unless you specifically by clearly labled “non-gmo”. I use 2 farm eggs in my bread in lieu of the soy lecithin. Also – regarding the flax – it is the most HIGHLY UNSTABLE of all the omega 6 oils out there. Unless it was cold pressed, put into a dark bottle and kept refrigerated, it’s probably rancid (hence the cancer connection). However – fresh grinding flax and stirring it into oatmeal, is not bad for you. Using fresh ground flax in bread though, could be – you’re heating a highly unstable oil….. causing it to oxidize. I no longer use it in my breads for this reason.

    Shauna

    Reply

    20 Michigan Mom2three October 28, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    btw – I meant “over the last CENTURY” not “last decade” in my third paragraph….. don’t know how to go back and edit! ;)

    shauna

    Reply

    21 Betsy October 28, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Shauna, thank you so much for that very detailed explanation of KA vs Bosch. Maybe one of these days I’ll splurge. In the meantime, if I make bread I’ll be careful.

    Reply

    22 The Happy Housewife October 28, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Kelly-
    I didn’t have time to read all of the comments, but here are a few thoughts. I only use 1 teasp of gluten per two loaves. I use 100% hard white wheat (not soaked or sprouted). I have rarely had a loaf turn out hard or crumbly. Even when I have forgotten the gluten the loaves seem fine. I do use lecithin (about 1 Tablespoon per 2 loaves) as well as an egg. Perhaps that helps.
    As for your squash question on my blog, I used a very large knife. It was hard to cut, but not impossible.
    Toni

    Reply

    23 Jaime October 29, 2008 at 10:50 am

    Kelly,
    Came to your blog from Tammy’s KTT. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not…I use hard WHITE wheat instead of the RED wheat. I find it comes out much lighter and softer than the red, which comes out really heavy and dense. Oh, and I make it quite often with out any dough enhancers and it’s still very soft. If I do use gluten, I just use 4 T. for 3 loaves. I also use a Bosch and the norpro pans.

    Reply

    24 Julie October 29, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Yes, I use the hard-white wheat as well. It’s great. I think it’s a Montana Wheat.

    Reply

    25 Kelly the Kitchen Kop October 29, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Now I don’t know what to do – I have a 25# bag of hard white wheat berries here that I thought of returning to get the red wheat, as that one has a higher protein content. (Which makes a better rise?) But if you both get a light, soft loaf with a good rise from the white, maybe I should keep it???

    Reply

    26 Edie February 7, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    You could use half red and half white. That is what I used for years until I discovered that the red on its own made a better bread. I find the white makes a slightly more crumbly and slightly denser bread. I know friends who prefer the white over the red. I was wondering if I could use my bread recipe and just soak the flour? I plan on experimenting with it. I will share my post if I am successful with it. Been making bread in my Bosch for years this is my regular version- http://quietlyrunningtheracehomeschooling.blogspot.com/2011/03/make-your-own-yummy-whole-wheat-bread.html

    I did wonder about the fourteen minutes of kneading though. I usually only have to do 4 minutes on speed 1 in my Bosch Universal. I have the 750 watt version. It seems like 14 minutes would just be too much.

    Reply

    27 Julie October 30, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Keep it. I don’t think there is a huge difference in protein content. Then you can compare it to the hard red and see which one you like the best.

    Reply

    28 Anna November 3, 2008 at 10:41 am

    All of this angst about bread making – wow. If I was still baking and eating wheat and bread I know I’d be feeling it, too, because there are so many variables and info to sort through, with conflicting sources of info. But without bread and wheat in my diet anymore, it’s one less thing to worry about getting right. Sticking to foods that have a much longer history in the human diet, like meats, fats, and eggs is much easier to contemplate.

    I don’t know that we have any degree of gluten issues in our immediate family, but it’s very common in those of Northern European heritage. Between the two of us, our son has Norwegian, Irish, German, Scot, Welsh and bits of other NE blood, so who knows? Some of my husband’s relatives in Norway have or had varying degrees of celiac disease and generic “poor health” in the family history, including one 2nd cousin with full blown celiac-sprue; he was extremely ill and failing to thrive as a baby until he was diagnosed (he’s now in his 20s, a competitive volley ball player, and thriving without grains).

    The historical data is pretty clear that where wheat goes, certain negative conditions and diseases go too, though of course, it doesn’t obviously kill off everyone, or affect all the same way. Given that the health damage can be very subtle and take decades to accumulate (and most still don’t make the connection to wheat), I figure why bother with wheat anyway? It isn’t an essential food and is very recent in the human diet, despite the entrenched cultural associations with wheat. Bread does make eating with one’s hands easier, though. Forks, knives, and plates take care of that very well.

    Reply

    29 Kelly the Kitchen Kop November 3, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Anna,

    I know I’m always asking you to do this, but would you mind jumping over to this post:

    http://www.kellythekitchenkop.com/2008/06/dieting-with-no-carb-or-low-carb-foods.html

    I have a question in the comments there about eating no grains…

    Thanks!
    Kelly

    Reply

    30 Ivy November 3, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Have you looked into using Xantham Gum instead of Gluten? My youngest son was just diagnosised with an allergy to gluten so I am new to all of this, but it seems that many of the gluten free recipes call for xantham gum to help replace whatever the gluten does for bread.

    Reply

    31 Kelly the Kitchen Kop November 4, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    Hi Ivy,

    No, I haven’t looked into that one – anybody else know about this one???

    Reply

    32 Kay February 9, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Kelly, I’ve tried baking bread without gluten and with gluten. I really like the one without gluten in it. It’s an adapted recipe from a westbend breadmachine book and it works great.

    IMHO, I’d leave out gluten if you are making a lot of these breads and eat it everyday. You never know what they are going to find about gluten flour in another few years. I thought agave was all good, until I found out its just as bad as HFCS. Sometimes I feel like old fashioned food was so much better – most of these new gimmicks turn out bad! I still use gluten once in a rare while, for occasional breads say once in 2 months if I feel like experimenting with new breads. But I always come back to the one standard recipe that I have. You can check out my blog for it if you need the recipe. It has egg and milk in it though.

    Reply

    33 Kelly February 9, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Hi Kay, I’m good with eggs & milk! I’m leery of gluten, too………..I’ll check out your recipe, thanks!

    Reply

    34 Kay February 9, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Kelly, I’ve removed the disable-highlighting option now. You should be able to copy it for printing. I also tried a variation with bran and sesame seeds too, it worked great as well!

    Reply

    35 Kelly February 9, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Thanks, Kay, I’ll go get it now! :)

    Reply

    36 Ryan February 28, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Peter Reinhart’s Whole Grains book has recipes for sandwich type breads without the use of gluten that turn out fine in my estimation. Most of the flour is either soaked or prefermented which should cut down on the phytates and their are instructions on using a sourdough starter for most of the breads.

    Reply

    37 Kelly March 1, 2009 at 12:13 am

    I’ll have to look for that one, thanks!

    Reply

    38 MrsBic August 31, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Hi Kelly, I would like to try this recipe in my new Bosch…but I am a beginner with EVERYTHING. My first dough-making adventure was a disaster…I would like to try and do one loaf at a time…would I just divide the recipe by six? Is it easy enough to explain measurements for just one loaf?

    Thank you!

    Reply

    39 KitchenKop August 31, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Mrs.Bic, I would think that you could just divide by 6, but remember I’ve never tried it. Don’t know why it wouldn’t work, though! Good luck!
    Kelly

    Reply

    40 Billie January 13, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    I just recently found your website and I love it! So nice to know there are others out there who think like me. I’ve been reading every chance I get! I’ve got a question though. I’ve read that as soon as the wheat berries are milled they begin to lose their nutrients. Then I read that soaking the wheat is better for us and helps with mineral absorption. But aren’t we losing nutrients by waiting to process the wheat? Thank you so much for your website!

    Reply

    41 Kelly the Kitchen Kop January 15, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Hi Billie, yes, grains lose some of their nutrients after they’re milled, but they slowly lose more over time if I understand it correctly (not right away), and personally, I mill my flour, then store it in the freezer, since it’s not feasible for me to freshly grind it for each use. I figure this is still much better than buying at the store and not knowing WHEN it was milled.
    Soaking grains are important because it neutralizes ANTI-nutrients that would prevent us from absorbing all the good stuff.
    Kelly (And thanks for reading my blog!)

    Reply

    42 Donna Marie January 21, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Hi Kelly!

    I am trying so hard to find just the right recipe for bread. I found this one…
    http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/cookbook/2009/artisan-bread/boule.html
    how can I do this and make sure that I neutralize the phytic acid? Texture wise this bread came out GREAT and my family loves how versatile it is…quick and easy and anyone can do it so I can get to the bigger business of schooling the kiddoes.
    Any idea what I can do with this??
    TIA!

    Reply

    43 KitchenKop January 21, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Donna, did you try my recipe yet? For this one that you linked to, it will just take some experimenting with soaking – it takes a lot of time to get recipes just right! Let us know if you nail it. :)
    Kelly

    Reply

    44 Claudia April 12, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    hi kelly!

    thanks for posting this recipe! i really enjoy reading you blog…this was my first successful whole wheat bread baking experience. all my other ones have turned out SO dense (i mean seriously dense)… i love how simple and versatile the recipe is (cinnamon rolls=?).
    claudia

    Reply

    45 Claudia April 12, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    oops…i meant to comment on the OTHER page labeled “Organic Soaked Homemade Bread Recipe in the BOSCH” :-\

    Reply

    46 ToriAnn September 24, 2010 at 12:01 am

    This is my first visit to your blog, but I’m just rediscovering making my own 100% wheat bread and wanted to share a little tip I learned. Not sure about how it would react with soaking, but if you add a small amount of calcium (1 tsp for 6 loaves of %100 whole wheat), the calcium reacts with the yeast and dramatically helps with rising. It works as well, or better, than gluten, I’ve found. (I think that’s why really old recipes often call for milk–they were getting the results from the calcium.) You can buy calcium flour and the health food store for a pretty good price.

    Reply

    47 KitchenKop September 24, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Are you talking about Dolomite powder? I’ve heard that is good stuff…I’ll have to try adding a little to my bread next time. :)
    Kelly

    Reply

    48 ToriAnn September 24, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    No, I use Calcium Carbonate that comes in powder form. You find it on the shelves amongst all the other vitamins. It really is just a powder form of calcium.

    Reply

    49 Jennie Paige April 17, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    I wonder if this recipe would be ok using my KitchenAid I just got. It’s the professional line so it has 575KW with a 5.5qt. capacity. I just couldn’t spend over $400 on a bosch even though I wanted to. Has anyone had any luck using a stronger KitchenAid? I hope so!

    Reply

    50 KitchenKop April 17, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    I’ll bet it would work just fine! :)

    Reply

    51 Kelley May 7, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Hi! Where can you buy this Bosch breadmaker? I live in Mexico City so any US store other than Walmart would be out of reach! In the event I can’t purchase this miracle item – be it for avaliablity or cost – is it still possible to do it by hand?

    Here, the bread choices are VERY limited in regards to purchasing healthy, soft, and tasty bread. I tried organic bread and it was like eating cardboard and my guy wouldn’t go near it. I love bread and we love to make sandwiches and toast, only our options are terrible!

    So even if I have to do it by hand, so be it! I love your class, it has taught me so much :0) Thanks!

    Kelley

    Reply

    52 KitchenKop May 8, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Have you looked on my resources page for where to order the Bosch? Will they ship it to you there?

    You could do it by hand, and you’ll probably build some good muscles because you’ll need to knead it very well! Try it and see, just start with a one-loaf batch. :)

    Kelly

    Reply

    53 Teresa May 17, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Kelly,
    I just finished my 3 loaves of bread from your soaked version and it turned out so nice and delish! After reading thru the comments, I decided to add the vital wheat gluten and use less of the white flour. I really think it is a trade off. Both seem to have disadvantages it seems. However, this recipe really is delicious! Thanks for the trial and error that we all can benefit from.

    Reply

    54 Pat King November 16, 2012 at 10:43 am

    I use a bosch mixer for my bread all the time, but recently my bread has fallen in the oven while baking. Can you help me withthis problem?

    Reply

    55 KitchenKop November 16, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    If you haven’t done anything different, that’s really weird. I’d try googling “bread falls in the oven” and see what you find. Maybe someone here can jump in to help you, too. Let us know if you figure it out!

    Kelly

    Reply

    56 Farzana December 13, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Gosh, I really dont like the idea of adding gluten flour to the bread :-( I make 100% brown bread without the extra gluten and it turns out quite lovely. Its soft for days. I make a sponge using half of all the ingredients first. I use soya lechin granules. 2 tsp for 3 cups flour. This has made a huge difference in the texture and as well, it stays soft for DAYS !! I also add 1 TBSP lemon juice. In my 100% whole grain spelt bread I use xanthum gum or guar gum. This stuff really works in helping it stay nice and soft too.

    Reply

    57 Julie t. December 14, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    I ahven’t read all the feedback on your bread baking experience, but I do want to share 2 tips I learned out of an old cooking with wheat book my mom had.

    1. Mix all your bread ingredients (for me, it’s in my Bosch) and let it soak for 30 min to up to several hours. The longer you soak it, the cooler the water needs to be. The purpose of this is to let the freshly ground wheat flour absorb as much liquid as possible. After soaking, you can determine if you need more water or more flour. But generally, a sticky whole wheat dough will make a moister, lighter dough. Without this soaking period it’s too easy to get a dough that is too dry.

    2. After kneading (I knead for 12 min), I test the elasticity by pulling up a golf ball size piece of dough, without breaking it off. I gently stretch it out with the goal of creating a translucent “window” about an inch and a half in diameter. If it tears before then, it needs to be kneaded a little longer.

    3. When I put it in the pans I check it’s readiness for baking by poking the corner with my pinky, indenting it about a quarter inch. If it bounces back quickly, it’s not ready to bake.

    Those 3 things have allowed me to make whole wheat bread that rivals white bread in its lightness. As for gluten, you can’t achieve that lightness without it, but for 6 loaves I use a scant 1/4 cup.

    Reply

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