Oxidized Cholesterol – Sally Fallon Answers A Reader Question About Healthy Milk

May 29, 2009 · 122 comments

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A reader at the healthy milk options post had a great question in the comments recently about oxidized cholesterol:

Help!

My husband and I are really, really trying to work out this milk issue. He is NOT ready to go to raw milk. We are currently drinking pasteurized skim. After spending several hours reading your posts and making a small dent in some of my own research, I spent an hour discussing it all with my husband. I explained that we should not drink skim, 1%, or 2% due to the oxidized cholesterol. I also explained that pasteurizing was “killing” the milk, so that we should remain open to changing to raw milk in the future. My husband suggested that if all the good things were being killed in any pasteurized milk, that drinking whole wasn’t going to be any better for us either. This is somewhat backed up by what I read today here http://www.full-health.com/partoneFprint.html that stated that one of the main sources in the American diet for oxidized cholesterol is pasteurized, heated milk protein.

So now I’m confused. Doesn’t this mean that ALL pasteurized milks contain oxidized cholesterol and the only difference is that whole milk has its oxidized cholesterol from beginning to end and the lower fat milks have their oxidized cholesterol back in?

And, if that’s the case isn’t the real decision whether to drink raw milk or NO milk? My husband said “if everything in it is dead and you can’t absorb the calcium without the vitamin D being alive, and the artificial vitamin D doesn’t let you absorb the calcium properly either is there ANY reason to drink milk?”

He stumped me. I have a PhD, I’ve read for hours and I’m even more confused. I thought maybe you could help me out.

My reply:

Great question, and although I don’t know if I’d say everything beneficial is killed with pasteurization, you’ve got me in ‘sleuth mode’ on the oxidized cholesterol.  I’ll post on this as soon as I get some answers.

I emailed Sally Fallon:

Hi Sally, I have a question for you about oxidized cholesterol.  I know from the WAPF site that one of the many reasons low-fat milk is so unhealthy is due to the fact that powdered milk is added, which contains oxidized cholesterol (which can cause heart disease, not saturated fats as we’ve been led to believe). But I’ve also heard we shouldn’t cook our egg yolks, or they will oxidize as well – is this true?   Also, I know raw milk is best, and it’s what my family drinks, however I’ve been suggesting to my readers that if they don’t drink raw milk, to at least drink whole milk.  But if heating/pasteurizing the milk oxidizes the cholesterol, should I then be suggesting they drink raw milk or NO milk?

Sally’s reply:

The confusion comes about by what causes cholesterol in food to oxidize–it is not pasteurization or cooking (scrambled eggs are fine), but the spray drying of milk or egg yolks when they are forced through a very tiny hole at high temperature and pressure to make powdered milk and eggs.  Powdered milk is added to 1% and 2% milk to give it body.

Regarding milk, the more I learn about pasteurization, the more I realize how harmful it is (for other reasons than the oxidation of cholesterol).  And now most milk is ultra-pasteurized, especially most organic milk.

I think if people can’t get raw milk, the next best thing is pasteurized (not ultra-pasteurized) cream diluted with water. The fats are much less prone to damage by pasteurization than the water portion of the milk, and at least the fats in cream have not been homogenized.  This is what I did for my family when we could not get raw milk.  We used diluted cream on porridge and in cooking.

Hope this helps! Sally

Sally, That’s perfect – just the sort of detailed answer I need for my readers.  I’ll post that soon if it’s OK with you.  Thanks for always being there for people like myself!  I tell everyone that you’re a “rock star” in my world.  :)   Kelly

Yes, of course it is fine to post.  Good to clear up the confusion. Would rather be an opera star.  :) Thanks, Sally

I found one more interesting blurb on one of my favorite sites: Protein Power/Dr. Eades:

Unsaturated fats shouldn’t be used for cooking. Unless, of course, your goal is to eat oxidized fats.

Saturated fats have no double bonds. They are immune to free radical attack. They are immune to heat damage. You can cook with them, you can hit them with a hammer, you can throw them on the floor and jump up and down on them. And they stay the same. Saturated fats are stable fats.

So Dr. Eades comments go along with Sally’s statement:  “The fats are much less prone to damage by pasteurization than the water portion of the milk.”  It also confirms Zeke’s reassurances in the comments at my last post on rendering fat when I fretted over the possible oxidation of my tallow that was covered too loosely on the counter.

Another question comes to mind as I try to make sense of all this…

Based on Dr. Eades statement that saturated fats are immune to heat damage, why then do saturated fats still have “smoking points”:  This is the temperature at which you risk the formation of free-radicals/cell damage, which can cause cancer. You should never re-use cooking oil for the same reason. I’d forgotten about this, and re-use my tallow all the time.  I also probably get it too hot sometimes, which had me worried about free-radicals, but if saturated fats are immune to heat damage, maybe I don’t need to worry about that.  I just checked, though, and the issue must be related to how much saturated fat is in tallow (or whatever fat you’re cooking with) in proportion to the other components.  I need you, my super smart readers, to help me figure all this out!

If you have any more insight on the issue of oxidized cholesterol, please jump into the comment section below so we can learn even more – Googling didn’t get me very far.  (I’ve got a lot more for you to read on this topic, though:  why saturated fats aren’t the devil they’ve been made out to be.)

The photo above was taken the weekend of the Deidre Currie Festival last fall.  Somebody pinch me! Of course I had a wicked bad hair day…

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    { 110 comments… read them below or add one }

    1 FoodRenegade May 28, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Sally would rather be an opera star! That one made me smile. :)

    Thanks for this post, Kelly. VERY informative.

    FoodRenegade

    Reply

    2 Zeke May 29, 2009 at 4:25 am

    You raise several good questions that will take some searching to answer.

    I urge everyone interested in lipids to learn some basic organic chemistry. (side note: organic chemistry got its name because it originally dealt with the chemistry of organisms, but now includes almost all carbon based molecules whether they are from organisms or not.) Several concepts that are important when understanding fats are also some of the most basic and easiest to understand.

    Read up on alkanes, alkenes, alkynes, sigma bonds, and pi bonds. These are all type of hyrdrocarbons. also look into organic acids.

    In case you were wondering I’m (almost) a chemist. I’m still in college, but my major was biochemistry before I changed it to environmental chemistry. hopefully I’ll get my BS in the fall.

    Zeke

    Reply

    3 Henriette May 29, 2009 at 4:54 am

    Very Interesting.
    I use organic pastured, low temperature pasteurised cream a lot
    and a little whole fat milk 3,5-4 % fat ( also organic- low temp past.)
    In Denmark you only use the high temperature pasteurising when you make yoghurt!
    – and organic dairy is never added anything( no fake vitamins, no fillers no powdered milk) or homogenised.

    SO while not ideal it is far better than no milk for me.

    I live on a small island with no milking cows so raw milk is not an option unless I travel LOOOONG and find some moonshine raw milk.- but it is hard to do and not a every day option.
    I do hope that some day I

    Reply

    4 Kathy May 29, 2009 at 5:38 am

    As soon as I saw that photo of you with Sally Fallon, I was excited for you! And I really appreciated the reminder about how ultrapasteurization (which is becoming more and more common now) is even worse than pasteurization.

    I have a question for Sally — I have been checking the WAPF website for articles published in Wise Traditions. But the articles only go back to Winter 2007. Are there plans for upgrading/updating the site? (And if so, will you be announcing it?) There is so much more information coming out these days!

    Thanks, Kelly, I really appreciate it. — Kathy

    Reply

    5 Cathy Payne May 29, 2009 at 6:12 am

    Great article, Kelly! Thanks for the great information. Will pass on to our followers!

    Cathy Payne

    Reply

    6 Stacy May 29, 2009 at 7:22 am

    I buy raw milk but when I can’t get raw milk, I usually get organic cream or milk from a local farm. The cows are organic and grass fed, and the milk is whole, non homogenized, and pasteurized at the lowest allowed temp. That is also usually what I make my yogurt with

    Stacy

    Reply

    7 Sue E. May 29, 2009 at 8:11 am

    Kelly,
    How can we notice your hair when the “opera star” is standing right next to you??!!

    So, when I roast my potatoes in a 400+ oven, I should under no circumstances be roasting in olive oil?? I love that flavor! What other suggestions do you have? Butter, coconut oil (I think the flavor would change my potatoes dramatically), tallow, or lard (which I have never bought and don’t know where I could get a good quality version)?

    Also, I am glad to be able to drink whole MooVille milk here in West Michigan which isn’t homogenized (hubby won’t go for the raw…..yet!)

    Zeke: Thanks for the organic chemistry lesson/things to research. I avoided organic chem in college; maybe that was a mistake??

    Sue E.

    Reply

    8 Peggy March 25, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Hi Sue. Another West Michigander. We used to use MooVille milk and were happy with it, but finally bought a cow share so now have raw. Trouble is I’ve discovered I’m likely sensitive to milk (getting up nerve to start the GAPS diet) so am giving my milk to my daughers who also have a share and still not enough of that delicious milk.

    Soon as I can try dairy again, I’m looking for MooVille cream to make GAPS legal yogurt. (There’s not enough cream on the top of my half share.)

    Reply

    9 Sassy May 29, 2009 at 9:33 am

    Kelly,
    I know I have asked about milk several times. This clears a lot up for me. I guess since I can only get ultra-pasteurized (organic or non) here in Georgia I need to look for organic pasteurized cream? I don’t know how the brands here are processed. To find raw milk, even labeled pet food would be a two-hour drive! I think I’ll find the cream!
    I love your newsletters and your site!
    Sassy

    Reply

    10 Brooke March 21, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    If you live near a whole foods a lot of them in GA carry Alabama Organic Milk. It is not homogenized and low pasteurized.

    Reply

    11 Kelly May 29, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Henriette, Stacy & Sue, I agree that those are good options if you can’t get raw milk.

    Kathy, I think the reason that all issues aren’t on the site have to do with which ones are sold out. Seems like I read somewhere that back-issues won’t go up until copies are all sold.

    Sue, yes, you should check the smoke points before using them in a 400* oven – you can switch the oil or lower the temp. Read my post about how to make tallow or lard!

    Reply

    12 Kelly May 29, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Sassy, wow – a 2 hour drive, what a bummer. So yes, look for organic pasteurized cream! (Or even non-organic past. cream if you can’t find organic.)

    Reply

    13 NancyO May 29, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Help! Where on earth does one find NON-ultra-pasteurized cream? I have never seen it. Is it just my part of the world? I won’t hardly buy cream because it all says ultra-pasteurized. So far, if I need cream we skim off of the raw, whole milk we use…tho I don’t do that often.

    Reply

    14 Kelly May 29, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Nancy,
    I’m sooooooo thankful that we can find that around here. Call around to your grocery stores, health food stores, small markets, etc….hopefully you’ll find some!

    Reply

    15 Rebecca K May 29, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Like a few others posted, we also have low-temp pasteurized, non-homogenized milk available from a local source in our stores. It’s actually more expensive than raw around here! But I think if you are able to find cream line or non-homogenized milk it by definition means they didn’t add spray-dried milk back in. We are lucky that we have a fairly close source of raw milk and stores like Trader Joe’s around here (they have their own brand of cream line milk and yogurt).

    I’d say to ask your grocer to carry non-ultrapasteurized cream. I’ve heard that small grocers can be pretty accommodating because they really want to please their customers.

    Otherwise, if you don’t mind paying, I’m pretty sure there are places (in PA and the like) that will ship even dairy products to you but I’m sure the refrigeration and expedited shipping is quite pricey.

    The good news is cream line organic yogurt is becoming more widely available, for a decent dairy source.

    Reply

    16 Zeke May 29, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Sue. E,

    If you didn’t really need it, it wasn’t a mistake not to take it. The main reason I changed my major was to get out of three semesters of calculus!

    But if you learn about electron cloud theory and the concept of electron density, you’ll understand pi bonds, which are the second bond in the double bond that makes fats unsaturated. These bonds are wimpy, and easily affected by heat, temperature oxidants, and radicals.

    In fact I think starting next week I’m going to blog a few primers on these subjects, and hopefully make things make a little more sense for those that got out of o-chem :)

    Zeke

    Reply

    17 Martha May 29, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Very informative post, Kelly. Thank you!

    Reply

    18 Cathy Payne May 29, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Kathy (post #4 above), If you want to keep current with the Wise Traditions articles, I strongly suggest membership in the Weston A. Price Foundation. If you click on my link below, you will find a link to membership that will help Jon and me earn conference registration plus one to give away to a lucky winner! Be sure to email us if you choose to sign up so you’ll be eligible for the drawing. The Spring 2009 issue has great articles on Cod Liver Oil including one by Chris Masterjohn. We’ll have a one hour interview with him posted next week. When we interviewed Sally last month she told us the website was getting an overhaul. But there are great benefits of membership. She chats about them in show #41 on our blog.

    Reply

    19 Local Nourishment May 29, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Around here, all the cream available in large grocery stores is ultra-pasteurized, even at the “health food store.” I found one supplier of “pasteurized but not ultra” cream at my farmer’s market. I’m using cream I skim myself from raw milk as often as I can, but I would rather the kids have whole milk available, so I try not to skim more than 1 gallon in 4. If I run out and need extra cream, I’ll just rework the menu rather than buy “UP” cream at the store.

    Local Nourishment

    Reply

    20 Peggy March 25, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Our raw milk (share) provider says that even with skimming off the cream, there is still as much left in the milk as commercial whole milk. Don’t know if that’s correct, but might be worth checking out.

    Reply

    21 Julie May 29, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    The more I learn on the subject the more I’m convinced that if we didn’t have a source of raw milk, we’d just go without milk–and I’m addicted to milk and never thought I’d get to this point! Right now we are very lucky to have a fantastic raw milk source so I’m covered but Sally’s idea to use diluted cream is interesting and certainly a viable option.

    Julie

    Reply

    22 Marsha_M May 29, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    This was really interesting. I was buying organic pasturized whole milk for my kefir grains…but I haven’t kept it up and I guess there’s not point to anyway. I was allergic to milk as a child so I’ve never drank much milk and kept my dairy product consumption low. Since raw milk is not an option right now I guess I will continue to use my organic whole milk yogurt (pasturized, Stonybrook farms brand), raw milk cheeses (except for the “soft” ones) and try to find some non-ultra pasteurized cream.

    Keep us updated!

    Reply

    23 Raine Saunders May 29, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Great article and very good information for those who are skittish about trying raw milk. It’s the only thing my family drinks. My son won’t drink any other milk, even when he’s around other children who are drinking pasteurized, homogenized milk. He knows better! This is such an important issue, and one that I sincerely hope gets spoken about and more copy written by activists, writers, and educators, and attention from the consumer public. Here is the article I wrote about raw milk, published in Healthy Beginnings last year…
    http://agriculturesociety.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/why-the-consumption-of-milk-is-harmful-to-your-health/
    Go raw milk!!

    Raine Saunders

    Reply

    24 Erica May 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    So this digression about the smoke point of oils has got me wondering about roasted vegetables too. I LOVE veggies roasted in olive oil, and I usually roast them at 400-450 degrees — I’m not sure if the roasting would even work at lower temperatures. But if the oven is at 400 degrees, does that mean that the olive oil would reach 400 degrees (or even close)? Wouldn’t the food that the oil is in contact with keep it cooler than the oven temperature? It seems to me that cooking in an oven should be somewhat different than cooking in a fry pan, where the oil is in direct contact with a very hot pan, but I’m just guessing about things here. Is there anyone more educated who can chime in?

    Reply

    25 elaine May 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Kelly~
    Thank you so much for all you do to bring such fantastic information to us! As far as I’m concerned, you are also a Rock Star!! (and I didn’t think your hair looked bad at all!) I am so thankful to have a source of raw “pet milk” for all my “pets” :) But, like many of the other people that have commented – I can’t find cream anywhere that’s not ultra-pasturized. I guess I need to dig a little deeper.
    A note to “Sassy in Georgia” — I also live in Georgia and there are several resources I might be able to tell you about to obtain some raw milk. Feel free to contact me @ chocolate4elaine@yahoo.com (can you tell what my first love is??) :)

    Reply

    26 Catherine May 29, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Thank you for this post and the tip for using cream and water instead of pasteurized milk. Dr. Atkins (who was a cardiologist before becoming a diet guru) also only recommended cream and water in a healthy diet. Although not a crusader of raw milk, he was very much against processed food. Hard to believe now with all the low carb Atkins junk on the market.

    Catherine

    Reply

    27 Lee May 30, 2009 at 3:21 am

    I’ve been told by several chiropractors and natural health folks to eliminate dairy from my diet because of my allergies. Yesterday I even got a speech from one of them about butter being in the dairy family.

    Several of them however are into raw milk because they don’t have allergies. Must be nice because I’m a fan of milk. It goes so well with Oreos! But, alas, I’ve even switched to soy yogurt. It’s better than it sounds! Enjoy your milk you lucky, non-allergy having people.

    Reply

    28 Cathy Payne May 30, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Kelly, I suggest that you go to the Weston A. Price website and research the dangers of soy. Any non-organic soy products will be GMO, and soy milk is a highly processed food. I found I am sensitive to cows milk so we drink raw goats milk instead. I can still have butter and cream. Soy is not the health food it is made out to be.

    Cathy Payne

    Reply

    29 Cathy May 30, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Oops! That comment was for Lee, not Kelly. I’m on iPhone with a very limited visual field. My apologies.

    Cathy

    Reply

    30 Betsy May 30, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    I’ve just emailed a local dairy about their pasteurization methods. They have Jersey cows and if the pictures on their website are anything to go by, they are on grass for the most part. I’ve looked at cream in the grocery store and it’s ALL ultra-pasteurized except for this dairy. However, I don’t know what their label means (and don’t remember what it said).

    I can get raw milk and cream (and boy, do I!) but it’s nice to have other alternatives if necessary.

    Reply

    31 Vin | NaturalBias.com May 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Great post Kelly! It’s interesting to hear Sally say that scrambled eggs don’t cause cholesterol to be oxidized. I didn’t know about the powder being added to low fat milk either. I would never drink low fat milk or recommend it to anyone, but it’s still good to know!

    Vin | NaturalBias.com

    Reply

    32 Kathy May 30, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    This response is to Cathy Payne — Yes, I do plan to join the WAPF but for now a friend of mine has been handing off her WAPF journals to me. Meanwhile, your point to Lee is just what I meant about updating the site — it’s just so easy to find info when it’s on the site and can be “searched.” Glad to know it is going to be better soon!

    Reply

    33 Kelly May 30, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    Elaine, you cracked me up, and trust me, the hair was bad. I especially rely on the hair – it’s all I’ve got to counteract the freckles! LOL!! :)

    Erica, great questions, and I’d also love for someone who knows about this to jump in…I’ll try researching more when I have time, too. Would be a good topic for a post, but if I can’t find solid info, I won’t be much help.

    Reply

    34 Katie @ Kitchen Stewardship May 30, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Sue E/Erica/Kelly: I think I have an answer for the olive oil in the oven question. I ran a little test tonight while baking dinner – in a 375 degree oven, after 20 minutes, the 1/2 cm or so bowl of olive oil (just enough for my thermometer tip) that I put in there was only up to 250 degrees. I think you would have to bake or roast something a LONG time to actually get that item up to the temp of your oven. Think how long it takes a chicken to get to just 180 or so in a 300 degree oven when you’re roasting it. My logic says “no problem” to roast veggies in olive oil! Does everyone agree?

    Katie @ Kitchen Stewardship

    Reply

    35 Kelly May 31, 2009 at 1:08 am

    Hmmmm, I just wonder, though, what temp it gets to after an hour – which is how long my veggies/potatoes, etc., usually take to roast… just thinking “out-loud” more…

    I was thinking that when I fry something in our tallow again soon I should pull out the thermometer and see how hot that is when we finally get our onion rings, etc., hot enough to brown. (I looked and its smoke point is 420*.) Good idea to pull the therm. out, Katie!

    Reply

    36 JK June 1, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Forgive me if I understand the issue of pasteurisation wrongly but if we were to use even raw milk and yoghurt to make our waffles and pancakes or hot oatmeal, isn’t that pasteurisation since it is subjecting them to high heat?

    Reply

    37 Kelly June 1, 2009 at 9:20 am

    JK, you’re right, and that’s why raw dairy that you also serve raw has the most nutrition. And if I run out of raw milk, I’ll be sure to stretch it by using our pasteurized but non-homegenized local milk in recipes that will be heated.

    However if I never ran out of our raw milk, then I’d use that for everything, knowing that it was only one step from farm to table, which always means more nutrition. :)

    Reply

    38 Jason S June 1, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    There is nothing to be afraid of concerning raw milk, it’s awesome. I’ve seen remarkable results from 2 new friends of mine who have nerve disorders (Bell’s Palsy and MS). One couldn’t move her facial muscles and one could barely walk. The MD told her she would never be able to move her facial muscles! After only a few months she can now move her face like everyone else. The person with MS can move much better. I call this is a miracle. I myself have recovered from cancer using this kind of nutritional advice (raw meats as well, sorry but it’s the truth) without and medical intervention. Sounds impossible but it’s all true.

    I can’t advocate raw (animal) sources of nutrition strongly enough to people.

    Reply

    39 Sassy June 1, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    I wrote to Elaine and told her I was so excited to find non-homogenized, pasteurized (not ultra) milk at Whole Foods! It is Sparkman’s brand. It doesn’t say organic but does say no hormones and Jersey cows. It was exciting to see the cream floating on top! Hmmm I think I may try making butter!

    Reply

    40 Sassy June 1, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Kelly,
    I like Dr. Kim but see what he says farther down even about raw milk.
    Sassy

    Link Between Cow’s Milk Consumption And Risk Of Diabetes Type 1
    By Dr. Ben Kim on June 01, 2009

    * Health Warnings

    Published by CBC News

    Type 1 diabetes projected to double in young European children

    The number of European children under the age of five with Type 1 diabetes could double by 2020, a rapid increase that points to environmental factors, researchers say.

    The study in Saturday’s issue of The Lancet was based on an analysis of 29,311 cases of Type 1 diabetes in 20 European countries between 1989 and 2003.

    Type 1 diabetes is caused by insulin deficiency and is treated with insulin injections. It occurs when insulin-producing cells in the pancreas that are needed to control blood sugar are destroyed.

    “By 2020, the predicted number of new cases is 24,400, but this change is not shared evenly between the age groups, with incidence of Type 1 diabetes in the youngest age group expected to double in both sexes,” Dr. Chris Patterson of Queen’s University in Belfast, Gyula Soltesz of Pecs University in Hungary and colleagues wrote in the study.

    Diagnoses were rising at a rate of 3.9 per cent per year overall, and increasing by 5.4 per cent per year among those under five.

    Based on those trends, the number of cases among children under five is predicted to double, to 20,113 in 2020 from 9,955 in 2005, the researchers said.

    Cases among European children under the age of 15 are predicted to rise even more, to 159,767 in 2020 from 93,584 in 2005.

    Read the rest of this article at cbc.ca

    ***

    Note from Ben Kim: Though there are likely several potential contributing causes of diabetes type 1, it’s hard to ignore the strong connection between cow’s milk consumption and risk of insulin-dependent diabetes in children.

    The evidence in relevant studies suggests that some component of cow’s milk in its pasteurized and homogenized form is capable of triggering an autoimmune-type reaction in children who may be genetically predisposed to developing diabetes type 1.

    Researchers have not been able to pinpoint what this component is – some suggest that it’s bovine serum albumin, while others feel that it could be bovine insulin.

    For a look at peer-reviewed scientific studies that highlight the link between cow’s milk consumption and incidence of diabetes type 1 in children, have a look at the following summaries:

    Nutritional factors and worldwide incidence of childhood type 1 diabetes.

    Early introduction of dairy products associated with increased risk of IDDM in Finnish children.

    Early exposure to cows’ milk raises risk of diabetes in high risk children (Registration may be required to view full article.)

    Cow’s milk exposure and type I diabetes mellitus. A critical overview of the clinical literature.

    Cow’s milk diabetes evidence mounts.

    Ischaemic heart disease, Type 1 diabetes, and cow milk A1 beta-casein.

    Clearly, ingesting cow’s milk and dairy products made with cow’s milk doesn’t cause diabetes type 1 in everyone. As it is with almost all chronic states of dysfunction, diabetes type 1 tends to arise in children who are genetically predisposed to developing it.

    And because there is enough evidence to indicate that ingesting pasteurized and homogenized dairy products can precipitate diabetes type 1 in predisposed children, my feeling is that all parents and expectant parents should be made aware of this link so that they can make informed choices as they raise their children and even during pregnancy.

    For children who have diabetes type 1, I strongly recommend limiting or avoiding intake of cow’s milk and products made with cow’s milk, as we just don’t know how much regenerative capacity each child’s insulin-producing cells have. Regular intake of dairy amounts to regular autoimmune activity against the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas, making it near impossible for a type 1 diabetic to experience improvement and less dependency on meds.

    As it is with just about every other autoimmune-related illness that we know of, the greatest improvement from avoiding dairy and other known causes of the illness at hand can be expected early on in the life of the disease; the longer one allows diabetes type 1 or any other autoimmune illness to exist, the more difficult it becomes to experience improvement.

    This can be a difficult subject to discuss, especially with parents who have a child with diabetes type 1. This discussion isn’t meant to assign blame or generate feelings of guilt. We must give all parents as much relevant information as possible to empower the best decisions for their families from this day forward.

    Limiting or avoiding cow’s milk and foods derived from cow’s milk means striving to stay away from milk, cheese, cream cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, cream, ice cream, whipped cream, and all junk foods like milk chocolate, potato chips, and cookies that contain dairy.

    Though raw organic dairy and foods made with raw organic dairy are better choices than factory-farmed dairy, my experience has been that it’s best to avoid all types of dairy, especially in cases where there is existing autoimmune illness.

    So what do you eat and feed your children if you take away dairy? Lots of green vegetables and other fresh plant foods like beans, lentils, peas, and whole grains. For more specific ideas, here’s a look at what we’ve been feeding our two boys these days :

    Breakfast:

    Ripe avocados, mangoes, watermelon, and banana

    Lunch:

    Rice, some type of leafy green vegetable (usually Bok choy), small amount of naturally raised chicken or turkey meat, soup made with vegetable or organic chicken broth, all chopped up into easy-to-eat pieces and mixed together in one bowl like a stew

    Dinner:

    Same as lunch

    Snacks:

    Smoothies, dried mango, goji berries, mulberries, oatmeal squares, anything else that I’ve been experimenting with for our recipes archive

    ***

    Please consider sharing this post with expectant parents and parents of young children. Limiting or avoiding dairy doesn’t guarantee immunity against type 1 diabetes and other chronic diseases, but based on everything that I’ve read on this topic and experienced with my own body and with clients over the years, I feel that it’s more than a worthwhile investment in our health.

    Reply

    41 Dr. Byron Cragun May 22, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    Just a little comment on type I Diabetes and Milk related problems. The 1st area of concern and the most likely culprit in childhood diabetes is Vaccinations. It is difficult to get results from studies but there is a DEFINITE connection.
    I really think that any milk sensitivity issues with this type diabetes is most likely caused by the pancreases reaction to what seems an autoimmune response, which is often delayed as in most vaccination reactions. A more immediate reaction would be cot death that might occur from 2wks to 3months after vaccination.
    To reduce childhood diabetes vaccination must be discontinued, PERIOD.

    Reply

    42 Sassy June 3, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Kelly,
    I was just interested in your thoughts on my last post. I don’t agree with it but had never heard this info before.
    Sassy

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    43 My Boy's Teacher June 3, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Wow, I certainly didn’t expect to have my question answered by Sally Fallon herself. Thank you :)

    I have not found non-ULTRA-pasteurized cream anywhere. I find it sad that I am having such a hard time finding acceptable milk in the blarmin’ DAIRY STATE of all places. We are currently using Farmer’s All Natural Creamery http://www.farmersallnaturalcreamery.com/faq.html OR Crystal Ball Farms http://www.justlocalfood.com/Products/milk.htm

    Soooo frustrating. Both of these places give “some” grain/silage in the winter months. And, despite what the Crystal Ball Farms fact sheet says (those prices are for people in their delivery area) for both brands of milk I have to pay 8.5 or 9 per gallon. So far I haven’t found raw milk any closer than a 40 minute drive each way. I also haven’t been able to find pastured butter for less than $7.00 a pound anywhere either. I am shocked at how few choices (and the prices) I have in the so-called Dairy State.

    I appreciate the information on saturated fat and oxidation. At least I feel like I can scramble my eggs without impunity.

    I must be misunderstanding something in what Sally said about “the fats are much less prone to damage by pasteurization than the water portion.” I must not clearly understand what exactly is in the “fat portion” and what is in the “water portion.” I assumed the fats were in the fat portion and the water was in the water portion so…what is there to damage in the water portion?

    My Boy’s Teacher

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    44 Theresa June 4, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Hi Kelly, Interesting discussion about milk. What are thoughts on a new coconut milk beverage I saw at my local health food store today–a brand called So Delicious made by a company called Turtle Mountain? These are the ingredients: Coconut cream (water, cococnut, guar gum), organic evaporated cane juice, calcium phosphate, magnesium phosphate, carrageenan, Vitamin A palmitate, Vitamin D-2, L-selenomethionine (selenium), zinc oxide, folic acid, Vitamin B-12. The carton does say that all ingredients are non-GMO. Are you familiar with this product? Thanks!

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    45 Cathy Payne June 4, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    I’m not Kelly, but I’ll put in my 2 cents on Theresa’s question. Lots of food items at the “health food” store are highly processed. This would be an example. Coconut cream by itself would be good in a smoothie with a raw pastured egg and organic fruit, but this product has too many ingredients. Vitamin D-2 is a synthetic vitamin whose patent has expired and is not beneficial like the Vitamin D-3 your body makes from sunshine. The good news is that it is non-GMO and does not contain HFCS. For some excellent information on vitamins A and D, please listen to the talk by Chris Masterjohn by clicking on the link below my post. I would stick to coconut milk from the coconut or canned organic. Homemade is always best!

    Cathy Payne

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    46 Kelly June 4, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Jason, thanks for sharing your awesome testimony to raw foods!

    Theresa, I am not familiar with that product, but Cathy’s advice makes great sense to me.

    My Boy’s Teacher – I’m not sure I fully understand that statement, either, but I think she’s just saying that the different components in the milk hold up to the heat in different ways. Bummer that you can’t find decent dairy there!

    Sassy, sorry, some weeks I only have time to check comments every few days. My opinion on all that is that there has to be some other factor causing the link – milk, REAL milk, has been around forever – and the way God makes things in nature doesn’t make us sick. And especially raw milk as part of a whole, traditional foods diet all-around would build our immunities up, not tear them down. I’ll never stop drinking raw milk and giving it to our kids. To me it just comes down to common sense. :)

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    47 Sassy June 5, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks Kelly. I agree!
    Sassy

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    48 Peggy June 12, 2009 at 7:59 am

    My head is spinning! I’ve read about raw milk…can’t get it where I live. I’d like someone to rate the following on a scale of 1-5 with 1 being “stop buying” and 5 being “it’s ok if have nothing else”:

    heavy whipping cream, ultra-pasturized (Food Lion brand)
    organic skim milk, ultra-pasturized (it’s a private label)

    I know that ultra-pasturized is bad, but we live in Forest, VA and all we have is Kroger and Food Lion grocery stores. We have Fresh Air Natural Food, but they have not carried dairy for months now and haven’t asked them what that’s all about!

    Another question: Is heavy whipping cream the same as “cream”?

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    49 Peggy June 12, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Never mind! I just clicked on the link “Healthy Milk” and got my answers. Thank you very much! (I’m new…sorry!)

    Now I feel like a bad mom…I used to buy Homestead Creamery whole milk and even tried non-homogenized, but was tired of my kids complaining about the “chunks” (they weren’t really chunks, but you know kids!) floating around the milk. And somehow, all I learned in the past about milk floated away and I began buying “organic” ultra-pasturized skim milk. I guess the problem was that I was so tired of hemmorhaging money out for groceries I rationalized my choices! I buy as much organic as I can and some things I refuse to compromise on. I guess milk should be back on THAT list!

    Great forum, by the way! I learned something new about the link between oxidized cholesteral and heart disease. So does that mean that if you’re trying to reduce your risk of heart disease that saturated fat isn’t the villian it’s made out to be and that oxidized cholesteral is? Where are the main sources of oxidized cholesterol?

    Thanks!

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    50 Cathy June 12, 2009 at 9:50 am

    It’s my understanding that a major source of damaged cholesterol is from powdered milk. It is added to skim and lofat milk as an industry standard. Therefore not revealed on the label. Chris Masterjohn gives some great information about cholesterol on his website and our last Podcast. This should be referenced in the link below.

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    51 Sue E. June 12, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Peggy,
    We buy cream-line whole milk (non-homogonized) and this is what I have found with the “chunks”:
    1. The further out the date, the better. It seems to chunk up faster the closer to the date.
    2. I have used a fine strainer over cups to catch the chunks that show up moderately.
    My advice would be to try these tips and go back to the cream-line milk you were buying and give it another shot. All of what Kelly has told us about UHT milk tells me to stay far away from it! Also, I think cream is the same as heavy whipping cream. Hope it helps!
    Sue. E.
    PS….Many of us have been there with our heads spinning. Seems like just when you have it figured out, something else pops up!!

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    52 Kelly June 14, 2009 at 1:45 am

    Peggy, such cool readers I have, they already answered your questions and very well, too! :) Let me know if there’s anything else you were wondering.

    Kelly p.s. Not sure why the plugin isn’t working that shows the commenter’s most recent post…will go look…

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    53 Mina June 18, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Peggy, the source of oxidized cholesterol is everything made with milk powder or egg powder: chocolate, baby formula, cookies, ice cream, etc. Read the ingredient list before you buy the product.

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    54 Steve June 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Hi – Great info on this thread! I’m currently reading Nourishing Traditions and find it quite compelling. I’m just now starting to look for a raw milk source in the Minneapolis area. In the meantime, however, I have the following question about skim milk. If I’ve read the above information (and the N. Traditions advice) correctly the main threat in skim milk is oxidized cholesterol from dry milk, which is added to skim to provide body. Of course it’s also missing the good fats and other nutrients found in raw milk. But the altered (toxic?) fats in 2% and whole milk, caused by pasturization and homoginization, wouldn’t be in skim to any significant degree. I ask because I wrote to both Horizon and Organic Valley inquiring whether they add dry milk to their skim and they both responded no. Organic Valley did have a caveat about California. See below.

    But am I correct in concluding that organic skim milk, with no powder added, is at least safe, even if it is not optimal dairy nutrition?

    Response from Organic Valley:
    “We do not add dry milk powder to any of our cartons of milk, with one exception. We add Organic Valley non fat dry milk powder to our California Pastures low fat (1%) and reduced fat (2%) milks. This is because the State of California has milk standards which exceed the Federal Standard of Identity for fluid milk products. In order to sell milk in California – those products must meet the state’s statutes.”

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    55 Kelly June 19, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Hi Steve,

    I’m not sure the answer to your question (sorry), but why not just drink whole milk since it’s better for you anyway? Also, don’t forget to watch out for organic ULTRA-past. milk.

    Once you find raw milk by you you won’t need to wonder about any of this anymore, because you’ll have the best there is!

    Kelly

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    56 Steve June 19, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Thanks Kelly! So organic pasturized (non-ultra) whole milk is considered better for you than organic skim (even without the dry milk). I supposed that would only be true for non-homogenized whole milk, right? Thanks again for the great blog.

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    57 Kelly June 26, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Steve, whole milk is better than skim always (unless the whole is ultra-past. I suppose) – we need those healthy fats!

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    58 Katie @ Kitchen Stewardship August 12, 2009 at 12:24 am

    Posted an update tonight on the EVOO and heat questions: http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/08/11/olive-oil-update-can-you-saute-with-evoo/ Not a lot of answers, but lots of information to sort through. Come help me out! :)

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    59 Jeannine September 19, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Whole raw milk really DOES lower cholesterol.

    My husband has hereditary high cholesterol (his mother, who died of Lou Gehrig’s disease, was fed through a tube for the last 9 months or so of her life, and her cholesterol was STILL off the charts). In the 30 years we’ve been married, my husband’s combined cholesterol level was never less than 180 (30 years ago) and it has been as high as 325, at which point he was put on the prescription drug Zocor. Even with Zocor, however, his cholesterol level was never lowered much below 250 and it had been steadily creeping back up. Earlier this year it was up to 290. Of course, we have made tremendous changes in our diet over the years to try to lower his cholesterol: I had always cooked everything from scratch at home, but we switched to 100% organic diets, we went from whole “regular” milk to 2% organic milk (homogenized, pasteurized, of course), cut a lot of fat, no fried foods, stopped eating out, etc., and he exercises every day (which kept his HDL/LDL levels decent), but it still seemed like a losing battle. We have been very disheartened about this, to say the least.

    About 6 weeks ago, after reading about the benefits of raw milk on various raw milk sites and on your site, I made the decision to stop buying processed milk and switch us to raw whole milk (which fortunately is legal here in Connecticut and readily available locally). To say that my husband was VERY reluctant to go along with the switch is an understatement, but he followed my research, did some of his own and agreed to try it as an experiment. Of course we both loved the taste, and we have been going through about 3 gallons a week in milk (for him) and milk or buttermilk (for me) since early August.

    Last week he had his blood work done, and he let me know in no uncertain terms that if his cholesterol level had gone up at all, he was going back to processed 2% milk, no matter what. Well, the blood work results arrived yesterday, and needless to say we were extremely nervous when we opened the envelope (shades of the Oscar awards!), hoping for good news.

    The news was better than we ever could have expected. His combined cholesterol level was 178 — the lowest ever in his adult life — and his HDL/LDL levels had also improved! Now in the interest of full and fair disclosure, he had also switched from Zocor to Vitorin earlier this year, so that may have been partially responsible for part of the improvement, but given the dramatic change we are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CONVINCED that switching to raw milk also had a big hand in this improvement.

    The other good raw milk news from our family is mine. I have recently developed the beginnings of osteoporosis (I am what is called a “rapid loser”), which my doctor attributes to very low levels of Vitamin D and calcium in my blood. My milk drinking had really fallen off over the years, so when I was first diagnosed with this in 2007 I made a concerted effort to drink more milk and eat more cheese (and spinach, and drink fresh carrot juice every a.m., etc.), but I didn’t see any improvement no matter how much I ate or drank (now, of course, I know that it was because the calcium in the milk I was drinking wasn’t available for my body to use). As a result, I was put on a prescription once-a-week Vitamin D pill and a prescription once-a-month osteoporosis pill. I hate to take medications, and found this really depressing. Earlier this year I switched to fermented cod liver oil and fermented skate oil — the jury’s still out on the results of that diet modification.

    However, after we switched to raw milk, the most amazing thing happened. When we were drinking processed organic milk, I would have perhaps one or two glasses a month unless I “forced” myself to drink more. Suddenly I am absolutely craving raw milk. I probably drink a quart a day, and have even started taking quart jars of my raw buttermilk to work because I find myself craving milk mid-day, too. When I come home late (having missed dinner), I find the only thing I want is a glass of buttermilk — and that’s what I had for dessert last night before I went to bed. I think my body is telling me something and it’s craving the calcium it needs. I find I have more energy, too, but whether that’s the raw milk, the FCLO, the high vitamin butter oil or the fermented skate oil, or some synergistic combination of all those factors, I don’t know. I

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    60 valerie January 15, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    PLEASE, I would love a follow up to this story! I also want to forward it to my brother who has a genetic disorder and has been on statins for almost 20 years! He said he as Cholesterolaminia, i think thats it.

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    61 Jeannine March 18, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    Follow up as requested. DH and I are still going through about 3 gallons of raw milk per week, mostly as kefir. Still both taking FCLO daily, too (although DH grumbles about the taste, he takes it faithfully).

    DH just had his complete bloodwork done again this month. His COMBINED cholesterol level is now down to 139 — 139! — that’s less than half of what it was a year and a half ago when we were drinking 2% pasturized homogenized organic milk, taking processed fish oil (Pharmax brand) and eating a much lower-fat diet.

    My results are solid, but not nearly as impressive as DH’s. I no longer have osteoporosis — now “merely” have osteopenia, but WITHOUT DRUGS. My Vitamin D level (previously deficient) is now in the normal range, and my cholesterol ratio has improved (although my overall cholesterol isn’t nearly as good as DH’s). I’m due to have my annual physical later this month, and am hoping for a slightly better cholesterol result this time around ….

    Your brother should definitely try raw milk (or, better yet, kefir) and FCLO for 4-6 months (while staying on his current meds) and see what happens. Like I said in my earlier post, my husband’s high cholesterol was absolutely genetic, too, although he was never diagnosed with cholesterolaminia or anything other than “hereditary high cholesterol.”

    I’ll post a follow-up after my physical, and we definitely want to know what happens with your brother!

    Jeannine

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    62 KitchenKop March 19, 2011 at 1:09 am

    That is so interesting, thanks for remembering to keep us posted!

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    63 B.B March 19, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    That’s great! But what’s FCLO?

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    64 KitchenKop March 19, 2011 at 5:44 pm
    65 Martha September 19, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Jeannine, what a great story!

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    66 KitchenKop September 20, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    Jeannine,
    Yes, we are LOVING this story, thank you so much for sharing it…the power of REAL FOOD is absolutely amazing. I’m forwarding your story to my brother in law with heart issues.
    Kelly

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    67 Jeannine September 23, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Always happy to pass on good news. However much you love this story, I assure you that we are loving it more. Real food forever! I have long been at the point where I didn’t see fast foods or prepared/processed foods or snacks, sodas, etc. as actually being “food.” In my mind, they’re just chemicals made up to look like food and taste good, but with no nutritional content — sort of like the plastic food replicas that are often featured in the windows of Japanese restaurants (and probably about as healthy to eat).

    I’ll let you guys know the results of my bloodwork re: cholesterol and calcium when I get that done next year. I’m hoping to get two good news stories for the price of one!

    Best, Jeannine

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    68 Nancy O September 23, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Thought I’d share more good news related to real food…. Three years ago I was diagnosed with stage 3 chronic lymphocytic leukemia (involves the blood but is also a lymphoma). I had multiple tumors in my abdomen and neck in addition to elevated white blood count and an enlarged spleen. I always considered my diet nutritionally sound, and was always a bit of a health nut. But when you are faced with something like this you take another (and another and another) look at everything that you are doing. Very quickly we adopted a traditional diet saw very quick results between that and some supplements. Things got even better when I added a significant amount of cod liver oil to my diet. I went from stage 3 to stage 1 in 6 months with no medical treatment. My spleen went to normal size and the tumors disappeared, except for one small knot in my neck that seemed to be mine for good, but at least it wasn’t growing. I went yesterday for my regular oncology check-up and for the first time in three years of seeing this doctor and him shaking his head and saying, “keep doing whatever you are doing” (which implied…”but don’t tell me what it is!”), he asked specifically what I am doing, and also took notes! Now, I’m not naive enough to believe that he’ll start recommending cod liver oil and raw milk to his other patients, but for him to see someone who has gone from stage 3 to stage 1 and maintained that for three years, at least he showed respect for my results enough to inquire about what I’m doing! Btw, the last remaining tumor has shrunk to the point that he said he almost couldn’t find it! Hurray for real food!
    Of course, I must acknowledge that I am also in the expert care of the Great Physician, and His direction gives me hope and peace. My husband and I determined early on, that we would praise Him whatever the outcome. That alone gave us a great deal of peace right away. But there is also an undeniable connection between the way He made our bodies and the food He gave for our nourishment. This journey has been a good one, and one I believe He allowed for my growth and faith.

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    69 valerie January 15, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    WOW! Amazing story!!! I hope you are still doing well as it is now Jan 2011!

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    70 KitchenKop September 24, 2009 at 7:05 am

    Another beautiful story!!!!!!

    I think I’m going to use these stories in a new post so everyone can see them. :)

    Thanks so much for sharing!
    Kelly

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    71 Martha September 24, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Wow Nancy O! Our Great Physician is awesome.

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    72 julianne ortiz October 5, 2009 at 3:57 am

    Hi could someone help me out, I was wondering why nobody used cocunt butter. julianneortiz@ymail.com

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    73 KitchenKop October 5, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Julianne,
    I think anything with coconut in it is good! (As long as there aren’t any other bad ingredients.) I just don’t know much about it…
    Kelly

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    74 NancyO October 5, 2009 at 10:49 am

    I think I have read that coconut oil is called coconut butter in some places. So I’d always the label. Green Pastures carries a product they call coconut butter that is actually coconut oil and ghee. I have used it, and it’s good…kind of a butter flavored coconut oil. The coconut oil is virgin, just with the ghee for butter flavor for things you want to taste buttery.

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    75 semin February 10, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    I am writing from Turkey. your comments are so interesting. I will advise all informations to everybody around me. Thank you. semin

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    76 semin February 10, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I am so interested in these topics. I am biochemist , so there is no any information concerning oxidized cholesterol here. Everybody is only interested in total cholesterol .Now I can see ,once more, the danger of processed foods which already known. In Turkey raw meat is used to make raw meat balls. It is traditional. Without being known we would be doing a good thing. Semin

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    77 Rob September 23, 2010 at 10:14 am

    I was looking for information on pasteurized dariy products and if pasteurization caused the cholesterol to be oxidized and harmful. My web search came up with this site and I’m pleased I read this, good information. Its funny how sometimes answers just give you more questions :)

    I had heard cooking egg yolks did oxidize the cholesterol. Sally Fallon, who’s book, Nourishing Traditions, I bought last month, says in this blog that scrambled eggs are fine. I am now a bit confused what to believe, as both sources are good sources of info.

    I may be misunderstanding what I read above but it seems to contradict in my mind> “The confusion comes about by what causes cholesterol in food to oxidize

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    78 KitchenKop September 23, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Hi Rob,

    About this statement:

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    79 Rob September 25, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Thank you for the reply Kelly.

    I can see how to take Sally’s statement now, I knew I was probably reading it wrongly.

    Many questions have come to me over the last three years. I love learning about holistic health and it being part of my life.

    Rob :D

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    80 Amy October 27, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    This can be so confusing….and this is OUR BODIES and OUR LIVES we are dealing with here so it’s scary too.
    I found some great resources on oxidized cholesterol and the whole cholesterol/saturated fat theory I thought I’d share:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxysterol
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10712395
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724

    Why don’t we hear about this in the media? Aren’t there doctors that read these and wonder?

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    81 Monica Reinagel November 4, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    As a licensed nutritionist who also happens to BE an opera singer, just thought I’d weigh in with some additional information. Although commercial manufacturers are ALLOWED to add nonfat dry milk to fluid skim and lowfat milk without listing this separately on the label, it would appear that this practice is not as widespread as is commonly assumed. I just spent the afternoon phoning the corporate headquarters for every brand of milk sold at my local grocery store to ask whether they add dried milk to their lowfat or skimmed milk. According to their representatives, not one of them use dried milk powder in their liquid milk. The one exception, of course, are the brands that are marketed as “extra creamy” skim milks such as Farmland Special Request Skim Plus. They do add powdered milk (and it’s not listed on the ingredient list) but it’s immediately obvious from the fact that it is higher in protein and calcium than regular skim milk. But in general it would appear that most skim and lowfat milk are not a stealth source of oxidized cholesterol. Perhaps that’s one anxiety that we can put to rest?

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    82 KitchenKop November 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Good job on calling all over! I’ve done that with quite a few food items in the past, and it’s a great way to learn a lot.

    I think that to be sure, people should call and talk to the higher-ups at the company they buy their milk from.

    Even better, get it straight from the farm!

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    83 B.B January 14, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Hi. I’m so glad I read all this. It was an interesting read to say the least!
    Can you please clarify a few things I kept on seeing /reading in the comments?
    -What’s the difference between pasteurized vs non-ultra pasteurised cream
    -Not cooking with olive oil. Can we? I think it’s such a good option!! But I’d like to hear perspectives on that
    -So we want pasteurised Non-homogenised milk?
    -And what

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    84 KitchenKop January 15, 2011 at 6:33 am

    Hi B.B.,

    Here’s the scoop on why ultra-pasteurized/UHT dairy is BAD and more on which milk to buy: http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2008/02/healthy-milk.html

    Yes on the olive oil! Be sure to buy it from a good source though. (See resources page – there’s a link at the top.) We use that, along with butter, ghee, coconut oil, tallow, lard, bacon grease, all the healthy traditional fats.

    Hope that helps!

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    85 B.B January 15, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Thanks SO much. Do you cook specific foods with specific things -e.g. butter for .. /olive oil for ..?

    And that link answered everything, except what

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    86 KitchenKop January 16, 2011 at 6:26 am

    Thanks for pointing out what I didn’t put in that post! I just added info about what homogenization is including a link to info on the health concerns related to it!

    Organic whole milk (as long as it’s not UHT) would be a step up from regular whole milk, but grass-fed beats both in my opinion – there’s a discussion about that (which is better organic not grass-fed vs. non-organic grass-fed) in the comments there.

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    87 B.B January 15, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    I

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    88 KitchenKop January 16, 2011 at 6:17 am
    89 B.B January 16, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    I just read it, thank you.
    You know what though, I think I’m just gonna avoid dairy as much as I can -minus the protein shakes -it’s not worth it.

    I’ll probably look into non-alcoholic kefir. Is there such a thing? And maybe butter, to be able to absorb nutrients better

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    90 KitchenKop January 16, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    You can’t find raw milk? (Sorry if you already said, I’m in a hurry and can’t go back…)

    More butter is always good. Seriously.

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    91 Shalom January 27, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    oxidation is caused by “spray drying of milk or egg yolks”

    What about egg white powder (meringue powder) – is it also oxidized?

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    92 KitchenKop January 31, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    I would assume so but don’t know for sure.

    Kelly

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    93 B. Davis May 16, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    I am currently in Nevada where you can not get raw milk but I do love it. It’s really hard to find just pasterized because everything here is homogenized & pasturized.

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    94 Colenso December 9, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Here in FNQ, Oz, we buy only bio-dynamic, organic milk from a dairy on the Atherton Tablelands. It’s lovely, rich, creamy milk, albeit pasteurised – but that’s not the reason we buy it.

    The reason we buy it is that it’s the only milk up here that comes from herds that are relatively humanely treated. In my book, how we treat non-human animals during their lives and deaths is far more important than what I do or do not put into my mouth.

    It’s a tricky one. It means for example that we don’t eat pigs because even pigs reared outdoors, free-range, die a horrible, terrifying, brutal death. Pigs are just so intelligent – they know that death’s around the door, and they suffer terribly. There’s no humane way to kill a pig unless you creep up on it and put a bolt in its head before it knows what’s happening, or you put it to sleep before you slaughter it, which means that it’s full of anaesthetic.

    Sheep are nothing like as bright as pigs, at least not the sheep and pigs I’ve been around. Nor are cows. (I’m generalising. There are always exceptions of course. Intelligence varies widely between animals in all species, just as it does in humans.) Nonetheless, justified on such shaky grounds, my wife and I still eat mutton and beef, kangaroo and free-range chicken.

    I have to say, however, I would not eat any meat, including fowl or fish, if it was just me on my own. I’m quite content with an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet so long as I know the chooks and the cows are relatively well treated. Couldn’t give up dairy easily and become a vegan, I readily admit.

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    95 Jeraldo February 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    I realize this was posted almost 2 years ago, however, I wanted to add some insight for those that may still be finding this page through search engines. I am unsure if powdered milk is added to low fat milk currently. As far as I know this was done during the 60s to increase milk price but stopped when regulations required dairy producers to put fortified solids on ingredient labels. I found this page looking for proof of my suspicions that powdered milk would contain oxidized chol. because the particles are heated after being extremely reduced in size. This reduction in size makes the particles highly susceptible to oxidation by heat. Store bought milk is pasteurized before being homogenized so the risk of oxidation is not likely.

    Eades statement goes drastically beyond evidence and reality. As you have pointed out, saturated oils also have smoke points and unsaturated fats CAN be cooked without being oxidized. And consuming more saturated fats CAN actually increase LDLs and uptake of oxidized cholesterol into arterial walls.

    SF (saturated fats) often have a higher smoke point than UF but smoke points are not only determined by degree of saturation. Another factor that will lower smoke point is how “organic matter” which is small amounts of roughage in the oil that is not filtered out. This is generally measured in how “virgin” the oil is. Extra virgin olive oil has a very high amount of matter and very low smoke point, but you can get olive oils that are more refined with higher smoke points which are good for higher heat applications.

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    96 Molly March 21, 2012 at 7:14 am

    I have found that the main reason that skim and lowfat milks are bad is that they have added Vitamin A palmitate and Vitamin D. These vitamins are added in excess and overstimulate your endocrine systems, thus depleting the iodine stores in your body. My family has switched to a whole milk that does NOT contain added Vitamin A&D. I have only been able to find two brands in my area: Organic Valley Ultra-Pasturized whole milk, and Koloma Super Natural Whole Milk. I do not like ‘ultra-pasturized’, but this milk has changed my life. I only drink 1 cup of warm milk per day (in my coffee) and it has made a HUGE improvement in my life and health. I have also cut out any foods with added Vitamin A palmitate. I am sure raw milk would be even better, but my husband will not hear of it. Hope this helps.

    Reply

    97 valerie March 22, 2012 at 9:44 am

    May I suggest that you investigate pasturizing your raw milk at home? It is, in my opinion, a great option. There is even a home pasturizing machine that is not really all that expensive when you consider it. Here is a link. Google “pasturize raw milk at home” and see what you get! Very intersting. I think this is great option for folks who are just too scared by the fear mongering anti-raw milk brigade to take a chance (ie your husband)! http://www.hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Pasteurizers/
    WAPF will not endorse any kind of pasturized milk, even home pasturized raw milk!? but I think that must be political.

    Reply

    98 Rob May 13, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I try to buy unpasteurized cheese when possible however is the milk which is used to make cheese pasteurized and/or homogenised first before making the cheese? Do cheese pose the same threats on health as pasteurized and homogenised milk?

    Reply

    99 KitchenKop May 13, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Yes, cheese is best raw, too, so it’s good that you try to find that when possible, but it’s also a cultured food, and full of beneficial enzymes along with the healthy fats, it’s sooooo good for you, so even if you can’t get it raw, I’d say to still eat it. We don’t eat all raw cheese.

    Reply

    100 Thaddeus Danziger May 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    So does { low-fat powdered (dry) milk} have all these cholesterol or not? Something close to a “yes or no” would be a relief.

    Reply

    101 KitchenKop May 30, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    According to Sally Fallon in the post above, the answer is YES.

    If you’re not sure, why risk it? Why not just drink real milk instead of powdered?

    Kelly

    Reply

    102 Thaddeus Danziger May 31, 2012 at 8:02 am

    Why not just answer the question? Does ‘Alba’ brand instant non-fat dry milk, the typical brand on the shelves here in real-life Washington Heights, contain the oxidized cholesterol (in significant amounts! Don’t get cute) that’s going to coat all our arteries with drywall compound? Not any old “powdered milk” as mentioned above; instant non-fat powdered milk.

    Reply

    103 YourSister August 15, 2012 at 12:58 am

    Regarding calcium asorption in milk. For more than 40 years I have been consuming only whole milk from the grocery store usually Lactantia in Canada (Quebec). I add about a quarter of a cup to a mug of hot chocolate and the same to tea and coffee – I really like these beverages very milky – and once in awhile I will have a glass of milk straight, but that’s rare. I also add both whole milk to all cream type soups to cool them down and I just like the effect to the taste of the added milk, mashed potatoes, and macaroni and cheese and I also use powdered skim milk in cooking and hot chocolate but will always also add some whole milk too because I don’t like the taste of skim milk. A few years ago I read an article by a physician connected with the Edgar Cayce people who said that calcium in milk is not absorbed if the milk does not have adequate fat in it and she identified skim, 1% and 2% milk as too low in fat.
    I was glad I’d always avoided drinking skim, 1% and 2% milk and never use powdered skim milk unless I also add whole milk – because of the taste.
    What I’ve observed regarding calcium absorption is the point I want to share. I suffer all the symptoms of hypothryoidism one of which is very weak fingernails which practically shred all by themselves in layers which makes my nails very difficult to keep looking nice. This only happens, however, if I go through a period where I stop using milk much milk. As soon as I revert to my normal quite frequent use of milk (lots of hot chocolate with both whole milk and extra powdered milk added) and lots of soups and my favorite macaroni with cheese, cottage cheese and added milk, with milk added (both whole milk and skim) etc etc…
    Within days I suddenly have GREAT NAILS again !!! My nails immediately get strong and stop shredding.
    I can’t give you statistics and backup documentation, just my word about what actually happens to me… and at well over 50 I have never tested as having a plaque problem in my veins.

    Reply

    104 YourSister August 15, 2012 at 1:00 am

    correction – where it says ” I also add both whole milk to all cream type soups” it should just say ” I also add whole milk to all cream type soups”.

    Reply

    105 Dan Hogan February 18, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Great site! I am interested in the use of whey solids in many foods as it appears to me that the whey is forced through a tiny nozzle to spray and dry. From Sally’s description of the process to dry milk it seems to me that whey solids may also be a major source of oxidized cholesterol. I see whey proteins or whey solids listed as an ingredient in many foods including ordinary cheese (not artisan cheese in other words), protein bars, smoothies and so on. Kelly, is there any information that you have seen on dried whey and cholesterol?

    Reply

    106 KitchenKop February 18, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Not that I’ve seen (or that I remember), but it’s surely another good reason to avoid whey protein drinks!

    Kelly

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    107 Manda Aufochs Gillespie July 28, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    I love this conversation. So fun to see how smart so many commentators are on this subject. I’d like to tune-in on the conversation about why not go with low-fat dairy and why not homogenized. I am a writer and researcher and Nourishing Traditions lover. I’ve been doing some interesting research recently about the problems with low-fat dairy. For instance, did you know low-fat dairy may actually increase your chances of gaining weight from drinking milk. As well, it is linked with lowering fertility in women. “Homogenized milk is accused of being more likely to be associated with cancer, heart disease, and inflammation. It is thought to differ from non-homogenized milk in the body because the milk particles are smaller and thus absorbed directly into the blood stream.” Read more: http://www.thegreenmama.com/blog/milk-does-it-do-your-child%E2%80%99s-body-good

    Reply

    108 Salem Thorup September 9, 2013 at 3:47 am

    Hey, Kelly. I love your blog. I am wondering if drying my milk in my dehydrator would cause oxidation. What do you know about that? I’d love to be able to store extra milk with dehydration, but I don’t want to create a food that is not going to be nutritious. I realize that fresh milk is always the most ideal, but I’m wondering if there is a way to dry it without damaging it much (if at all).

    Reply

    109 KitchenKop September 9, 2013 at 6:52 am

    Hmmmm, that’s a good question. Sorry but I have no idea!

    Let us know if you do more research and find anything out. Is this for disaster-prep I’m assuming??

    Kelly

    Reply

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