Fibromyalgia CURED – Another Real Food Success Story

March 20, 2014 · 82 comments

fibromyalgia-cure-Liz

If you are suffering with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or another auto-immune disease, keep reading for some HOPE!

Remember, if YOU have a real food success and healing story to share, please email me!  Kelly@KellytheKitchenKop.com.  (Read all of the real food success stories here.)

Today Liz, a reader friend who I became familiar with when she commented on another post, shares her journey of healing herself from Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome:

I was diagnosed with FMS at the tender age of 25.  I had the classic burning pain between the shoulder blades, along the tops of my thighs, accompanied by extreme fatigue and terrible brain fog.  Sleep was becoming more and more evasive.  I religiously exercised, lifting weights and taking and teaching fitness classes — I was a cardio queen.  I was the “healthiest” eater I knew, eating only “lean” low-fat foods.  Think bagels, low-fat ice-cream, salads, muscle meats with absolutely no fat on them, and “I can’t believe it’s not butter” spray.  LOL, I was determined to beat this thing.  Doctors gave me a grim prognosis with no other cure than prescriptions for sleep aids.  Somehow I knew I would get through it if I just prayed for answers and pushed forward when they arrived.

I moved to Arizona to get out of the cold and rainy Seattle weather.  I opened up a small fitness studio so I could do body work all day long to keep my body from getting as stiff as it did at a desk job.  Amazingly, the landlord of the studio became a client, and to my surprise she pointed out that I had FMS.  Darn, I thought I was hiding it pretty good….  Brenda became my best friend and mentor, as she too had FMS.  We tried many things, guaifenesin was the main thing.  As our health was notably improving, she started a local support group, and then a website:  Fibromyalgiarecovery.com.   Eventually she became more focused on nutrient deficiencies that cause the same symptoms of FMS and we embarked on the iodine protocol and the Weston A. Price Foundation.  We dropped the guai protocol and lo-and-behold, focusing on iodine and probiotics my body began to recover more completely.  It took me 3 years of researching to finally accept the new knowledge that butter and other saturated fats should be consumed.  Being so deeply brainwashed that saturated fat was bad, it was a very hard nugget of information to swallow.

It’s been a 13-year journey, but my dear friend and I are fibro free and have been for many years now.  She, in her late 60’s, has just returned from serving 3 consecutive missions in Taiwan and Hong Kong!  I attribute it to replenishing iodine (With the protocol!  Do not just start taking iodine without the protocol!!!  Especially selenium…), healing our guts the hard way (the GAPS diet would have been nice to have indeed – find a super helpful GAPS starter package here) and becoming aware of thought patterns and adjusting them to replace toxic thoughts with nurturing ones.  I believe FMS starts and ends in the gut (my mother has an ileostomy due to severe Crohn’s) and can manifest as problems in the adrenal/thyroid/pituitary axis, or any other auto-immune disease.  Clearly it can be completely reversed.  I thank God every day for the answers He is revealing to those of us who simply ask with an open heart.

Oh, and by the way, I gratefully feed my family butter (very liberally), eggs, raw cheese, homemade yogurt and kefir, whole fat raw goat’s milk, grass fed/finished beef, truly pastured soy-free…corn-free…hormone-free…GMO free chicken.  I no longer eat just the muscle meat- we now enjoy all sorts of organ meats — talk about a boost in my sense of well being!  Okay okay, I don’t love cow liver yet (chicken liver is good though) and at times I blend/dehydrate/and make pills with it and take it with a heap of sauerkraut to better absorb the B’s.  I soak or sprout all of my family’s grains beans nuts and seeds, make bone broth so we never run out, take magnesium, use magnesium oil on my skin, take fermented cod liver oil, etc.  In my 20’s I felt like a wreck, now I’m nearing 40 with a 6 year old and 3 year old, never before have I felt so vibrantly healthy.  I still love the gym,  but now I prefer high intensity intervals over long drawn out cardio sessions.  I will never stop strength training.  At 5’5″ I easily maintain a weight of 130.  I would have never dreamed that I would be able to do all that I am doing now.  In fact, we are building a home on an acre, about to start a little homestead with goats and chickens!  I haven’t had any fibromyalgia symptoms since about 2006 – I think it’s safe to say now, that I am cured.

A gift indeed.  I can not imagine where I’d be right now if I had continued on the path of conventional wisdom.  My life was centered on sleep and I never felt like I could get enough no matter how long I slept.  Now I am busy all day and rarely feel the desire to nap.  It feels like getting a total do-over on life.

Powerful huh?  I asked Liz what she thought of my recent post:  Can Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome be Cured?  A Not so Sparkly Book Review…

fibro-first-yearRegarding your “not so sparkly book review” post, I strongly agree with your comments.  Cholesterol and saturated fats are part of what I feel helped me recover.  I have come to believe that FMS is an issue with the pituitary/thyroid/adrenal axis.  It seems as though it can be triggered by traumatic events, or anything that damages the gut, which traumatic events can do, now that I think about it.  From what I’ve studied, adrenals thrive on a higher fat diet as well, since surprisingly they are more involved with regulating blood sugar than the pancreas!  I should also mention that I have not read the book you reviewed, I’m just responding to what I read in your post.  I was also shocked that the book did not mention gut health.  I’ll explain why.  When I was helping Brenda with her FMS recovery support group, the author of “Fibromyalgia: The First Year“, Claudia Merek, trained me to become a “mapper”.   I felt people’s bodies for lumps and bumps, which was part of a guaifenesin protocol we were doing.

We eventually parted ways because Brenda and I felt that iodine was somehow doing what the guaifenesin protocol had done for us, without having to go through the agony of avoiding salicylates…long story.  We tried to share our research with her, but we never heard from her since.

I promise, I’m getting to the gut explanation here…During the years that I mapped people,  I would relentlessly interrogate them about what they were doing before the instances that their maps got worse.  According to R. Paul St. Amand M.D., the doctor who created the guaifenisin protocol, if someone’s map got worse during the protocol, it was the patient’s fault for accidentally exposing themselves to salicylates. But I went to people’s homes and painstakenly scrutinized every item for every ingredient on the label of anything that would be consumed or applied to skin, such as makeup etc.  We would spend weeks together trying to figure out what the culprit was that was exposing them to this, because it supposedly would block the effects of the guai.  It quickly became clear to me that there was much more to the story.

Every time someone’s map got worse and we couldn’t find a salicylate lurking in their possession to blame, they had either been exposed to a round of antibiotics, consumed more sugar than usual, used a hormonal contraceptive, or had a recent stressful event.  I have never read anything that has confirmed my thoughts, but I suspect it was inflammation that I was feeling from an overgrown yeast/fungus such as candida, and I think food sensitivities contributed as well.  If only we had known about the GAPS protocol!  Sheesh, it’s all so clear now.

I also would be willing to bet that people with FMS are low in A, D, K, and magnesium, along with many others.  Dr. St. Amand hypothesized that calcium phosphates were to blame, and that they were building up in all sorts of places in the body.  The guai was supposed to clear it out.  Maybe it does, he didn’t even know for sure, but it seems pretty clear to me that calcium going where it’s not supposed to is a fat soluble vitamin deficiency problem.  We should have been told to take FCLO with grass fed butter and consume plenty of organ meats!  Also, amazingly, when you see the list of FMS symptoms next to a list of magnesium deficiency symptoms, all but a few overlap!

I probably told you more than you ever wanted to know, but hopefully it’s at least merely interesting.  :)

Thanks for sharing your story and your wisdom, Liz!  Check out her brand new blog called, ArtisanPartisan.com:  “It’s going to be all about making everything from scratch as part of my healing journey.  So far I’ve only managed one real post though.”  :)

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    { 79 comments… read them below or add one }

    1 Liz J. March 20, 2014 at 3:53 am

    Thank you so much Kelly for posting this! I feel so grateful to you for helping to share our experiences so others may have hope. I will always be grateful to Brenda, the ownr of the FMS site mentioned, for convincing me to take a leap of faith and trust real food as well as the iodine protocol. If it weren’t for her unselfish work I would have never figured out what my body needed to heal. She is truly brilliant!

    Reply

    2 Gloria L. March 29, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Thank you for sharing your journey, Liz. I’m wondering if you have thought about the possible connection of FMS to heavy metal toxicity, too, and how the metals in the body may cause some of the deficiencies and gut disorders you saw. It may be another “missing link” in your understanding of FMS. I say this because after years of sleeplessness and multiple fatigue symptoms, things started to change in me after I started on DAO (clinoptilolite). I had been taking iodine (which did help some), and never did avoid fats (we only used butter, some of it we made from raw milk), and used many other good healthy foods (including homemade (fermented) sourdough bread from healthy grains). So while I don’t think that DAO has been a magic bullet, it is something that has helped me and that I wanted to share with you.

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    3 Liz J. March 30, 2014 at 1:23 am

    Hi Gloria,
    You’re so welcome :) Thanks for sharing your experience.
    I’m so glad you mentioned heavy metals. That is definitely a piece of the puzzle for many if not all. My mother had about 14 amalgum fillings (that’s her guess) all at once when her father came home from the war and they finally had the money or insurance or what not. Years later she was diagnosed with Crohn’s and ended up having an iliostomy. She eventually ended up having all of her teeth removed and felt much better, with no crohn’s episodes for quite a while. Unfortunately they came back but she has never done a heavy metal removal program. I tease her that one day when she can no longer care for herself I will get her all better and heal her crohn’s because she will have to eat and take what I give her. She has admitted that she secretly loves that I bring her a spoonful of FCLO every day despite the squinty faces she makes. hehe
    I’ve read a little about the dangers of chelation, and it appears modified citrus pectin might be one of the safest ways to remove heavy metals. I bought some but haven’t got around to taking it regularly yet. When I’ve got more experience with it I’ll post something here. Thanks for reminding me! I haven’t heard of DAO, but I’ll definitely look into it. I’m so glad you have found some improvement. I have read that some probiotics are great heavy metal removers, and an overload of heavy metals can definitely cause dysbiosis. No doubt thyroid and adrenals don’t like it much either…
    Thanks again for bringing up heavy metals. How could I forget to mention that? Maybe because My mind is on our move in a few days. :)

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    4 Peggy March 20, 2014 at 10:26 am

    Thank you for sharing the information- perhaps some of it will help me. I found that trace minerals helped my fibro- improved it by 80% or more. I will look into the iodine and protocol but doubt I can do this with my hyperthyroid as a practitioner putting me on iodine is what caused the thyroid to flare. I do want to say that CFS seems to very complicated and may need a different approach for each person. I definitly had a magnesium deficiency which worsened with time and have a hard time with oxalates which can cause the mag issues. I did weston price way of eating and then GAPS – improved some but no cure but could not do intro gaps due to various health issues. My son has inherited the CFS and immune system issues that are causing candida and bacterial infections in both of us. He started having issues as a child with orthostatic issues(very common with CFS) while I was healthy my whole childhood despite having formula, being around smokers and eating junk.(these things did affect me by the time I was an adult!) He was breastfed and ate unproccessed homemade foods and fresh vegtables. I have seen that many diseases such as MS are coming at earlier ages than they used to. Enviromental toxins are part of the picture I’m sure. I”m looking into the theory about toxins and encasements with Candida and hope that provides healing for us.

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    5 Liz J. March 20, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Peggy, thank you for your comment! I can really relate to what you’re saying.

    I should mention that there are many other things I have done to build back my health. Avoiding environmental toxins has been a huge change for me. I stopped dyeing my hair with bromide filled chemicals that can destroy thyroid health and started using a high quality henna to hide the greys. Most of my personal care products are homemade, and work better than the storebought chemical laiden versions! I use glass to store food as much as possible and avoid plastic. I use stainless steel food containers and parchment paper baggies for my kids school lunches. We drink from stainless steel or glass. We have chlorine filters on our showers that we use to fill the tub for the kids as well. We are very careful about choosing safe cookware. And with all of this I still have more to change because the world is constantly changing. Since Fukushima I have limited our sushi consumption and look for Atlantic wild caught fish, etc. I am even considering aquaponics to raise our own fish!

    I look at food as the foundation and try to use it whenever possible before taking supplements etc. It is definitely a very slow process though, and sometimes we just need extra help to support systems that have “gone down”. I love to learn about nature’s medicine, in fact I was only 3 classes away from finishing my holistic nutrition degree from Clayton College (which was graciousely given to me by Brenda) when they took everyone’s money and closed their doors and ran. Obviously I was bummed, but I am so incredibly grateful for the knowledge that I gained access to.

    When my first daughter was born, I ended up with orthostatic issues like your son. It took months of pushing my naturopathic doctor to get her to finally see that it was the adrenals that were causing it. Finally when my ribs kept going out she said “AHAH! It IS the adrenals. :/ I was disappointed to have wasted so much money ruling everything else out, when I knew from my own research what was going on. I decided to go rogue and roll up my sleeves and get buisy. My blood pressure is very low and according to Dr. Brownstein, adrenals can not be healed without good quality salt. The chloride in the salt is important for clearing out bromides, so that’s an easy win-win-win for me. I make a sole and take a tsp./day in water. (A friend just recently found out that her teenage daughter’s health issues were corrected by just taking in more good salt. She would even pass out in the middle of a run! Scary.)

    I also began buying organic non-irradiated herbs in bulk and making my own homemade multivitamins, adrenal supporting tinctures, first aid kits, etc. This has been extremely liberating, although I take it very seriously and am very careful to research everything before I go forward. Herbs can be just as harmful as pharmeceuticals if not respected.

    I also struggled with candida for years, which prompted me to avoid all forms of sugar for years. I also took probiotic supplements for years before learning about fermenting my own foods. Unfortunately whenever I would eat the tiniest bit if sugar….Wham! Somehow I came accross this which explained everything:
    http://drmccombs.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/10-candida-myths/#comment-223

    Now I don’t know much about this guy, but from my experience I believe what he is saying. However, being the do it yourself-er that I am, I have come to the conclusion that you don’t need to buy his enzymes. All I do now is make and eat a little raw fermented foods that should be rich in these enzymes and avoid processed food. Seems to have worked for me. Since learning about the concerns of low-carb diet’s effects on thyroid health I gradually began re-introducing small amounts of honey, coconut sugar, fruit, dates etc. to my diet. I am very happy and thankful to report that I can now enjoy wholesome sweets from time to time with no candida issues!

    I wish you and your family the absolute best of luck Peggy! And you are so right- FMS/CFS are such blanket diagnosis that each person will have their own unique healing path to find.
    Best regards,
    Liz Jaconelli

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    6 peggy March 20, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Thank you so much for the information about adrenals and the link. My son was a bit nervous from the time he was born and I’m ADHD so taught him bad lessons about stress response as well so thats not good for our adrenals. But of course so many other things can affect adrenals. I have cut out chemicals, plastic, etc like you have. I can’t do extremly low carb such as some candida diets endorse- I lose weight,am hungry, and my gallbladder limits my fats so I can’t up them to get full. I can’t do grains but do beans and new potato which don’t seem to exasperate the candida as long as I dont go overboard. Can do a little coconut sugar but honey does me bad. My son is having a reaction to all starchy foods even beans but he is drinking beer regularly and not eating pure(hormone free meat,etc.) like I do. Diet and supplements have bought me from total disability to taking online classes full time so I have improved a lot but still far to go! I’m going to start on the salt and tell my son to try it as well. I notice that adrenal cortex extract helps as well. I just started Lufenuron for Candida so hope it will be the answer for the chronic candida. After the second day I woke up without the alarm this morning which is a big deal for me as mornings are horrible. Perhaps you can get a degree in some other aspect of holistic medicine because you could be of such help to so many people!!

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    7 Liz J. March 20, 2014 at 7:40 pm

    Peggy, it’s so good to see more and more people like us finding our way through it rather than settling for a less than satisfactory life. Sounds to me like you”ve come a very long way! I haven’t tried taking adrenal cortex extract, however I have thought about eating them as a food. When I raise my chickens I will make a point to eat them or make sure they get saved for stock.

    My biggest downfall is stress. I tend to think too many stressful thoughts as do my parents. I’m getting much better at stepping back and reframing my mind, but the old patterns have worn such a groove that sometimes I’m suprised to catch myself falling back into them. Brain balancing sound seems to help a lot. There’s an app for that ;). I think it’s called “brainwave 30 bineural programs”. Someday I want to do the cranial sacral massage and a special adjustment of the bone behind the nose. I forget what it’s called, and there are no practitioners here in AZ, but it fascinates me.

    Oh that reminds me, Brenda and I got the pleasure of getting to have dinner with Dr, Flechas years a go to brief him on Brenda’s FMS group that he was going to present to the next day. He’s one of the main iodine researchers. He said that FMS can sometimes be caused by a space in the skull where the brain stem comes out, that is misformed due to iodine deficiency in the whomb. On a similar note, I definitely think chiropractic has helped me, so that’s another thing to consider.

    Something that has been fascinating to me was when my most recent naturopathic Dr. looked at my fingernails and said that I’ve had adrenal fatigue for ages. He could tell because the moons on my fingernails are missing!!! My thumbs have moons, but none of my other fingers do.

    There’s just so much out there isn’t there??? It can be overwhelming to wade through it all…oops I’d be better off to reframe that as adventurous. :)

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    8 peggy March 21, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Yes it is “adventurous” to wade through all of it! I looked for the binarula program and it seems I can get it on itunes- thank you for sharing info. It’s funny you mentioned about FMS and the structural deformity- seems like I remember reading something about orthostatic conditons and brain stem lesions or deformity. Many people who have CFS have FMS and orthostatic condtion. I had cranial sacral done for one session years ago and want to have that done again because it helped neck pain I had been having at the time. My budget keeps me from being able to try all alternative things I’d like. Don’t know if you have heard of Dr. Bates- he has a natural newsletter you can sign up for with excellent info- and he sells neuroliminal training CD’s for anxiety, ADD, and health issues. Going to try that soon because I think dealing with my stress is one of most important things for my health issues. A psychiatrist told me about Dr. Bates after he had done neuropsycholgocial testing for LD’s and ADHD. I was very impressed that the psychiatrist recommended this but it has research behind it and thats why. Here’s the link.
    http://drbate.com/

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    9 Liz J. March 21, 2014 at 11:41 am

    Peggy,
    Thanks for the link! If my budget was a little bigger I’d be doing lots of CS stuff too for sure…and biofeedback, and massage, and…lol
    It’s always so amazing to me that it almost always comes back to nutrition in the whomb. My dear sweet mother has Crohn’s and I was born with a little bit of a hump back- another clue that adrenals were involved. I never noticed it until my teenage years because it was very subtle, and you can’t tell now, thankfully, but I’m sure I didn’t get all the nourishment I would have if my mother would have been able to apsorb nutrients better. My parent’s families both struggled immensely. They were both very poor, so much so, that my ants and uncles talk about how they would chew on tar off the road! My mother was 1 of 6 kids, and my father 1 of 8. My dad will occasionally point out a weed and tell me how they ate some part of that plant to survive. Whatever difficulties I may face from time to time, I am grateful that I have access to the resources I need and that we can provide them for our children. Amazingly, my dad went on to become a pharmacist and supported us well. Maybe that’s where I get my drive to keep moving forward in spite of difficulties. I have some special parents.

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    10 Karis March 21, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Hi, I am really apauld over this! I and many thousand of ppl have Fibromyalgia and there is NO cure!!! Yes eating right is part of it. But how dare say you have been cured!! You may have been mis diagnosed to begin with. I’m a certified occupational therapy assistant. I have tons of friends in the medical field and trust me there is No cure yet!! You can eat right and do all these other things when you have flare ups and that’s it!!! I want scientific proof not someone saying BS!!!

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    11 peggy March 21, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Karis how do you know she hasn’t been cured- without the very scientif proof you speak of- have you had her tested to see if her fibro has been cured? Have you looked at her medical records? So if you want to say this is BS and she hasnt been cured- where is your scientific proof that you have seen that her body is not cured? I know that fibro can be greatly improved because my own is improvement from diet, trace minerals, and chiropractic adjustments. I know many who are on pain meds and other meds and who refuse to try what I tell them about diet and supplements when it has helped me so much. The medical establishment tends to treats pain and symptoms but doesn’t attempt to get peoples health better much of the time. I have suffered with fibro and CFS for tweny years and no doctors could help me- changed my diet and did supplements and while i’m not cured my life is so much better and I’m now able to work part-time after 15 years on social security.

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    12 Krista March 22, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    I feel sorry for you, Peggy. I’m glad you have been able to change your condition for the better using diet and supplements, but why on earth would you insist there is no cure?? I would think that a story such as this would inspire you to find a good functional medicine doctor or naturopath….you too can be ‘cured’.

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    13 Krista March 22, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    I’m sorry, I meant Karis, not Peggy!

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    14 Liz J. March 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    Karis-
    Mainstream medical has failed me MISERABLY! What you’re saying is that it’s failing thousands of other people as well. Yep. Couldn’t agree more. I hear your frustration and I understand it completely. Before you give up and encourage others to give up, I urge you to hear me out.

    FMS is NOT a one path disfunction. There are many paths to FMS symptoms, all under one broad umbrella, of which I have figured out mine and have got to the root of it. Sometimes listening to mainstream medical friends can be damaging and hold you back from finding the truth. I had some of those, and occasionaly come accross them now, and I have had to remind myself that they have been brainwashed into their beliefs and remind myself to dig deeper with an open mind so as to avoid their quagmire of disfunction. There are some wonderful mainstream docs out there who are moving forward despite the criticism from closed minded peers, so I applaud them. I think it is very harmful to say there is no cure for FMS. I would not be a happy healthy functioning mother and wife if I would have taken my doctor’s words as my truth when he told me there was no cure. Just because mainstream medical hasn’t figured it out yet, perhaps because it’s not a quick fix that can fill their pockets, or they don’t have the time or the right knowledge, doesn’t mean it can’t be cured. There are many others like me who have been able to change the direction of their life’s experiences by overcoming FMS. Not one single person that has gone the conventional medical route has had these results, to the best of my knowledge. Have you ever looked at the curriculum for conventional medical doctors to see how much nutritional education they receive? You might be shocked.

    You may want to consider learning more about the pathology of FMS so that you can become an example of hope to those you are supposed to be serving. Look at the mechanical possibilities caused by nutrition deficiencies that don’t allow bones to form right that can irritate the brain stem. Look at glial cells and how they can get stuck in the fight mode- interestingly iodine plays a huge roll there too! Look at the gut and autoimmune problems caused by gut dysbiosis. Look at the inflammation this causes and how that inflammation effects the adrenals. Look at how it can cause autoimmune problems with the thyroid. Look at how traumatic events and our minds can effect the chemical processes in our bodies. Look at the thyroid/adrenal/pituitary axis and how each effects the other. Look at your personal environment and what kind of chemicals are you being exposed to. Are you bathing in chlorine, (chlorine is a hallogen that competes for iodine and therefore is bad for the thyroid/adrenal/pituitary axis), dyeing your hair, using lotions, shampoos, or other personal care items or eating bread made from brominated flour that have bromides in them (bromides also compete for iodine) Look into the water you drink, are you drinking flouride?…Another hallogen that competes for iodine. Look at EVERYTHING before you give up.
    Like I said, I understand your frustration and disbelief. I have had to work very hard to get out of that place, but I couldn’t heal until I learned to get into a place of hope and genuine openheartedness and realized I was ready to receive the knowledge I needed to recover, despite what the naysayers were telling me.
    I’ve been a personal trainer since 1999, serving several people with FMS for many years. I have supported my dear friend Brenda with her FMS support group that at one time (before she went on 3 consecutive missions so the group is on hold-tell me she isn’t really cured too!) consisted of over 300 people locally. I have interacted with them, listened to them, felt their bodies as a mapper, taken notes with them for years, researched, and done my due dilligence. I’ve met with many medical professionals that are moving forward and away from the no cure paradigm. I will not ever take “no cure” for an answer. There are zillions of things that can interrupt the healing process and if you haven’t considered them all then you can’t say there is no cure just because someone said so.

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    15 Bonita Hopkins March 28, 2014 at 11:50 am

    BRAVO !!! So well said. I believe the same. I was in extreme pain at 35 was finally diagnosed at 45. I lost my ability to walk, couldn’t pick a gallon of milk, could not sleep inspite of being ezhausted. Constant pain and inflammation .etc,you know how it goes..We I gave up gluten, dairy, that helped alot. I alway cook homemade. No preservatives, no dyes. All that helps but I always have a positive attitude. I have to. It’s not going to take me. I’ always searching for better ways. I’d love to learn more about the iodine and the adrenals . I’m very lathargic sometimes. Can you educate me on that?

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    16 Liz J. March 28, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Thank you Bonita- that really means a lot to me!
    And thank you for sharing your experience. You are so right. A good attitude keeps the doors open to the possibility to succeed. At several points in my recovery that was all I felt I had, but it got me through until things improved to each new level. This process can be a great teacher. Fighting to stay positive through it all has surely gifted us with tenacity.
    I’m glad you brought up iodine and adrenals. From what I’ve read ADRENALS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED FIRST. Iodine should not be taken until adrenals are up to par. I did not know this when I started taking iodine. Oops. Thankfully I think things have balanced themselves out, however I’m just going by how I feel. Basic testing says I’m all good, but I haven’t spent the extra money to do the sensitive test. Interestingly though, if thyroid is struggling due to lack of iodine, the adrenals will pick up the slack in a way, and eventually get run down themselves.
    I highly recommend seeing a naturopath minded doctor that has the full iodine knowledge. Some good places to read up on orthoiodosupplementation:

    A little info can be dangerous, so don’t skip over any of the links on the list. Each one is important. This one has a list of iodine literate doctors.
    http://breastcancerchoices.org/iodineindex.html

    And my personal favorite because it is excellent and happens to be my dear friend’s site:
    http://fibromyalgiarecovery.com/The_Iodine_Protocol.html
    Seriously, she is brilliant! I owe my recovery to her.

    I’ll see if I can find more info on how iodine effects adrenals specifically.

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    17 Gloria L. March 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Well said, Liz! Excellent response.

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    18 ValerieH March 22, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    The extra !!!! convinced me that all this Real Food can’t possibly be healing. Thanks so much!

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    19 peggy March 22, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    ValerieH- not sure what you meant by this but if it was supposed to be insulting- well gosh I hope not- it’s funny how people online will say things they would never say in person to people. But it’s really sad for our society as our young people are learning from the internet how to be quite vicious. And I kept thinking after I read your post that I’m sure you must be joking about real food- I must be misunderstanding. Because there is NO MEDICAL DOCTOR IN THE WORLD- no matter how much they may be against alternative medicine- that will disagree with eating real, healthy unprocessed food. Every single doctor I have ever had- whether convential or alternative has told me I’m doing the right thing eating real food, local produce, and organic meats. A radiology practice in a town nearby even put an article in a local magazine about cancer prevention with recommendations such as taking vitamin d and organic foods- this was convential doctors- not alternative. You know I think that the internet is just a venue for people to vent their inner rage about their childhood and other issues and sometimes it has nothing to do with what they are commenting on.

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    20 Liz J. March 23, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    Why, because healthy people are never passionate?

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    21 Lorraine March 21, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    I am praying for the right words to say. For those of you that Read and Believe Kelly The kitchen Kop and the ones that are claiming to be cured by eating certain foods and the ones that call themselves professionals Please Don’t Believe their claims unless you have never truly been diagnosed by a medical doctor or have been on a deserted island without all the vitamins & nutrients that all our bodies need. Think about it, if what they are saying is true doctors of all kinds, pharmacies & pharmaceutical companies would be either closing most of their doors or filing bankruptcy. If eating certain foods would cure fibro & has cured fibro don’t you think FB & Twitter & every other social networking sites would be full of testimonies of people saying they’ve been cured. I’m sorry I really do feel bad for anybody thats willing to write such nonsense and post to social networking sites for children, young adults, adults and the elderly alike to see not knowing if readers are able to discern truth from unbelievable crap. Please, everyone before going on some radical diet that could cause bad side effects or cause a diabetic an insulin reaction, talk to your doctor, maybe print the claims made in this original post & ask your doctor if this is something that can help you. I’m not trying to call anyone a liar and for sure I’m not judging anyone but this is coming from me, a mom of two, wife, youth leader for many years but most importantly a female that’s suffered for decades and tried every known possible way to be “cured” of my diseases.

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    22 peggy March 21, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    Lorraine just because this woman shares her story doesn’t mean that she is lying or does it mean that it will work for everyone. But she should share what worked for her because it might work for others. And its not nonsense. and actually i have read quite a few stories of people who have eliminated fibro or greatly improved it. my fibro is much improved thanks to trace minerals and diet. I have bought myself back from being totally disabled to going to school full time online and last year I completed an internship of 35 hours a week. I missed some days but graduated after completing the internship and am now working on my masters- 15 years ago I couldnt have done that. And I owe it all to supplements, herbs, low carb all natural diet(which BTW has not bought on diabetes but has bought my blood sugar levels to normal!!) Everything I have learned has not been from medical doctors but instead from others experiences with natural foods, herbs and from research I did to heal myself. I’m 50 years old everyone thinks I’m 30 and although I still have some health issues my quality of life and energy is better than it has been in many years. Did you even read her post- this is no radical diet- shes talking about meat, fresh vegtables, soaking your grains the way the quaker oatmeal box used to recommend and eating organ meats the way our ancestors did- healthy unprocessed food the way people have been eating it for thousands of years- weston price diet- which is the way your great great grandparents ate- and also THE WAY PEOPLE ATE IN THE BIBLE. Doctors and pharmaceuticals arent closing their doors because many are very profit minded and so money is top priority over healing patients. More and more people including some of my MD’s are recommending diet and supplements. But my primary care doc and endocrinologist never told me that a low carb diet would eliminate my insulin reistance- wanted to put me on metform. Well it has serious side effects so I turned to GOD’S medicine- food. And no need for medform now. I hope the hell young people who have fibro are reading this and learning to eat right and do supplements. our bodies are damaged from processed foods, enviromental toxins, antibiotics and modern stress so we need supplements to replace what we can’t get from our foods as our dirt is so nutrient poor. I’m sharing the info with my 23 year old son who has CFS in hopes that he doesnt develop firbro as I did. I encourage you to think for yourself and do the research -the info is out there- scientifc research about things such as magnesium and its benefits for health issues including fibro.

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    23 Liz J. March 21, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    First of all…what is this radical diet you speak of? Seccondly, see my above post. Thirdly, who here has called themself a professional? We’re people sharing our experiences with the intention of others to benefit. Fourthly, you say you’re not calling us liars, yet you call this nonsense. I’ m not finding integrity in your comment.

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    24 Liz J. March 21, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    BTW that was directed at Lorraine. Thanks for chiming in Peggy! I appreciacte your support as sharing our experiences can be a little scary, but worth it if someone can benefit…even if others choose not to.

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    25 peggy March 21, 2014 at 10:21 pm

    :) I understood and thought you did a wonderful job with your replies.I hope that others will be open so they don’t have to continue to suffer so much. I was in so much pain for so many years with my fibro and now I just can’t imagine how I dealt with it because the pain is so much better. Keep sharing your story to inspire others!!!

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    26 jmr April 17, 2014 at 11:32 am

    Lorraine, I don’t think Facebook and Twitter would be filled with testimonials because this is HARD. Really, really hard. It is the hardest thing I’ve ever done and the loneliest. Healing myself has been much more difficult than being ill. It takes changing absolutely everything about your life. It takes research, experimenting with one thing and then another, constantly trying new things to see what works for you and what doesn’t. It isn’t as easy as just giving up gluten and taking a few supplements, although certainly that is often involved. It is hard work, all day, every day to make these lifestyle changes, even just to source food. It is exhausting on top of all of the pain and exhaustion from the disease. I am not cured, but I just finished reading Laura Hillenbrand’s Unbroken and the bio mentioned her essay, “A Sudden Illness”. I read it yesterday and it was a perfect description of me for many of the past 7 years. But it isn’t a perfect description of me now. I’m not cured or healed…yet. But I’m also not that woman who couldn’t even sit up. I have been transformed from that person although I still have a way to go. I can’t say with certainty I will ever be completely healed, but I never thought I would be as healed as I am now, living a normal life.

    And Peggy, I disagree with you, there are plenty of doctors who are opposed to eating whole healthy unprocessed foods. I’ve met several. They scoff and just offer another sleeping pill/antidepressant, telling me to stop wasting my time and money cooking good food.

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    27 Liz J. April 17, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    jmr- Yes it has been very very hard. No doubt about that. I wouldn’t have been able to reach the good health I enjoy now if it weren’t for the loving support of my family and true friends, and full hearted prayers. I feel like a mental athlete now though. :) The way you describe the work is perfect. It has forced me to dig very deep to find strength that I never knew was there. Visualizing the life I wanted to create kept me pushing through. I figured I could be miserable in the same place or miserable and move forward with a chance of recovery. I decided to accept the discomfort of growth and move forward. Amazing how a little self talk and change in perspective made it feel easier.

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    28 sandra March 22, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    Guess what? Another person CURED of her fibromyalgia…
    How? Going completely gluten-free and supplementing.
    Ignore the naysayers!!!

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    29 peggy March 22, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    Sandara gluten free, no grain improves my fibro a lot as does low ox diet. what supplements have helped yours? I like to hear others stories because I learn things that can help me.

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    30 Liz J. March 23, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Thanks Sandra! One of my favorite holistic doctors told me that sometimes people subconciously hold on to “dis-ease” because it somehow serves them. He urged me to consider if there were any ways FMS could be serving me, and address any faulty thinking that may be keeping me sick. At first I was floored that anyone could dare say such a thing. Of course I wanted to get better, I was a miserable wreck! I was doing everything I could find that might help, with more discipline than I ever expected to need. Thankfuly I was able to get over myself and see the value in what he was saying. I hope all of the people making these negative comments can do the same.

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    31 Lisa March 24, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    What an encouraging article to read! I will be following you to learn more. I have a question regarding your move to Arizona from Seattle. Do you know if it’s the warm DRY heat that’s the thing or can it be humid heat? I live in Spokane Wa and we are thinking about moving to a climate that will help my symptoms because the bitter cold is just torturous. But I can’t really find anyone who knows if it’s just warmth we need or does it need to be dry heat? Would a humid environment like Hawaii offer the same relief?

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    32 peggy March 24, 2014 at 1:57 pm

    Lisa I live in the eastern part of NC and its hot and humid here May through September. I feel much better in the warm months. My immune system is better in the warm months and my energy soars. I haven’t noticed a difference with my fibro pain but I can tell you the cold is painful for me in general as I don’t have good circulation due to my orthostatic condition. I do worry more about how the humdity affects my problems with mold and candida as it seems that mold is worse in damp weather. I don’t think I would ever want to live anywhere with longer colder winters because I feel so much better in warm weather.

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    33 Liz J. March 24, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    Hi Lisa,
    and thank you!
    Peggy said exactly what I was thinking :)
    I’ve never lived in a warm and humid climate though, so I’m glad she shared.
    I made the brilliant decision to move to AZ in the peak of the summer heat. :/ I think I slept for the first two weeks straight. Come to think of it, I was probably experiencing “die off” symptoms.

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    34 Liz J. March 24, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    If you have candida issues here’s a thought:
    More and more people are discovering they have adrenal/thyroid/pituitary issues by requesting more complete testing than the standard testing for these issues, (based on my observations on the iodine4health yahoo group- they have some of the best info for people to make sure they are getting the right tests done, so even if taking iodine isn’t for you it’s a great source of info to catch what most docs miss). I actually think that “catch all” FMS diagnosis in part, is a result of sub-par testing methods and treatment for these issues. Also, I’ve never met a person with FMS who didn’t suspect yeast/fungal issues. So putting these two things together, it’s very exciting to see some natural health blogs talking about overcoming candida by strengthening adrenals/thyroid/pituitary, and letting the body fight it back down into balance, rather than focusing on figting down the candida with diets, that in my opinion could be harmful to the thyroid (ironically), and which can actually make it go systematic and dormant and harder overcome. I still have more research to do there, but maybe we can have a group effort! ;)

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    35 peggy March 24, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    Liz please share any info you come across about strengthing adrenals/thyroid/pituitary. I’m going to research that too as I can’t do any candida diet and it seems that many who do the diet have to do it indefinetly or they relapse. I took glandulars because an alternative doc had me on symplex F and also iodine(I was overweight and it helped me to lose weight) but somewhere along the line I balanced out and went too far the other way and he missed that as he was going by symtoms and not tests. So now I’m hyperthyroid and take bugleweed to keep my levels down. I take dessicated adrenal and rotate on and off that because I’m wary of overstimulation and I’ll have to research how to strengthen pituitary. I’ll pass on any info I find to you as well.

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    36 Liz J. March 24, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    Absolutely Peggy!
    I’ll try to list them quickly for now and add to it as I have more time.
    1. To bed by 10-strictly! The military has this rule, and for good reason. Right around 10, if a person doesn’t go to sleep, the adrenals secrete another round of stuff. lol Sorry I can’t remember if it’s cortisol or what specifically. It doesn’t really matter as long as you know that it gives you a seccond wind, but with a price to the adrenals. If we are repeatedly requiring the adrenals to go into overtime it takes it’s toll. People with FMS are commonly people who at one point in their lives were over achievers, pushing well into the night to get things done.
    2. Pituitary, adrenals and thyroid are in a way co-dependant. If the pituitary isn’t functioning optimally, thyroid can be affected, if thyroid isn’t optimal, adrenals become overworked and vice versa. So in my opinion it’s smart to adopt habbits that are good for the whole axis.
    3. Rule out pituitary tumors. Also in Ramiel Nagel’s book, “Cure Tooth Decay” he talks about pituitary issues and how in some issues simply reducing sugar (natural and processed) can help the pituitary heal.
    4. I got this wrong on a test, unless the test was wrong, but adrenals apparently are more responsible for regulating blood sugar than the pancreas! Keeping blood sugar stable by consuming plenty of healthy fats and proteins throughout the day and not eating carbs on their own appears to be wise. In fact, according to Ramiel Nagel this is vital to keeping cavities away, since the body has to use up precious minerals in the process of balancing blood sugar. I love how real food has so many cross over benefits!
    5. Dr. Brownstein, who works a lot with adrenals but is known for his iodine book, “Iodine, why you need it and why you can not live without it”, says to get plenty of good quality salt such as redmond’s real salt or celtic salt. I’ve heard rumors to avoid pink salt due to the iron oxides being oxidating. He said in so many words that salt is very crucial to adrenal recovery. I’ve come accross random info that said to avoid potassium, but that needs more research.
    6. Avoiding hallogens, such as chlorine (especially in the bath or shower) bromides (in most flour unless specified otherwise, in highly sprayed food, in clothing or anything else that uses flame retardants), flouride (toothpaste, water, non-organic tea). These all compete for iodine, and iodine can help detox them out, with the right protocol. I’m not telling anyone to do it as I know people who have had problems with it. According to Chris Kresser, the studies he cites say selenium is the limiting factor, that as long as there was enough selenium, but not too much, iodine didn’t cause Hashi’s etc. It will be interesting to hear what they say about it in the thyroid seminar I just commented about. I feel that I benefit greatly from iodine, but my ancestors are mostly Scottish so my requirements may be higher. Or maybe my body is still missing something that would lessen my requrement for it. It’s definitely something that no-one should jump into without knowing all the facts and without the support of an iodine literate doctor- especially if you have certain heart conditions or are hypertensive.
    7. Inflammation takes a toll on the adrenals, so it’s wise to address any possible sources of inflammation, such as injury or food sensitivity (I did a highly sensitive food sensitivity test, and supposedly had 35 foods I had to avoid for 3 months. Miraculousely the pain between my shoulderblades that had plagued me for a decade left. If I eat wheat it comes back.) I am not confident that most tests are accurate at all, but there is this cool test you can do at home for free and see if it helps:
    http://www.eatnakednow.com/nakedlifestyle/2014/02/03/do-you-have-food-sensitivities-the-one-simple-test-you-can-do-anytime-anywhere-to-find-out/
    8. Staying regular
    9. Keeping trace minerals and magnesium, real C, selenium, D, A, K etc. at healthy levels. Liver is my go to multi, and should be consumed with sauerkraut or other fermented veggies to get the enzymes needed to absorb the b-12. I also take a multivitamin tincture that I make. Of course fish oil for the D, however it wasn’t enough D for me so I added some liquid D and K drops into my regimen.
    10. Keeping the room completely dark at night. I put several layers of duct tape over every tiny little light such as the smoke alarm. I try to learn as much as I can about circadian rythms
    11. Herbs that are listed in adrenal tonic tinctures I have seen include: wild yam root, tulsi, sarsparilla, astragalus, licorice root, turmeric, and eleuthero root. I buy all of these dried and make my own tincture. I only take it during times of stress or unavoidable sleep deprivation. This helped a lot with the orthostatic issues. I noticed a difference right away.
    12. last but super important is relieving stress and reframing stressful thoughts. Focusing on what I want to create rather than what I want to avoid has helped me a lot.

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    37 peggy March 26, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    thank you for all the information. I started the 10 bedtime last night- it makes perfect sense as I do always get a second wind about 11 or 12. because i feel bad in the a.m. I get into habit of working later in day and staying up but not anymore! I haven’t been able to find a source of liver in my area that is not factory farmed and for the most part my tummy won’t let me eat factory farmed meat- I was told my someone that if you are gluten intolerant that animals who are in the pasture don’t get as much wheat which is common in feed. I have started back taking liver pills to see if it would help. I’m going to check out the test for sensitivities- I have multiple problems with foods due to gallbladder and problems with high oxalate foods but suspect allergies/sensitivities to other foods. i’m sending some info to some people who i’ve met who have fibro/cfs and i’m going to send your info to them.

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    38 Liz J. March 27, 2014 at 1:19 am

    Peggy, that is so great that you are willing to make that change! I think that is where I went terribly wrong in my college days, staying up late to study since I was also working a very challenging part time job with crazy hours in a group home. Thankfully my firefighter husband is a stickler for 10 pm bed time because he is at a station that often runs calls all night during their 24 hour shifts. It’s helped me adopt good bed time habbits that I was lacking when I met him.
    I’m not sure about the gluten getting through and ending up in the beef products, but I have read some anectodal stories about people who are allergic to soy reacting to soy fed eggs, so maybe. It’s enough to convince me to buy soy-free eggs from a friend. I always thought the proteins were broken down into amino acids and nothing could get through, but isn’t leaky gut all about larger food particles getting in through holes in the gut? Maybe the animals are sufferning from leaky gut from the un-natural diets they are fed.

    A long time a go Kelly posted this:
    http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2011/11/winner-of-u-s-wellness-meats-100-worth-of-beef-tallow-plus-a-coupon-consolation-prize.html

    which has a link to US Wellness Meats where I bought 5 gallons of their wonderful tallow to cook with, thanks to another one of her posts. (Thanks for that one Kelly!) I have been very happy with their meat as well. They sell a huge selection of great products and differeent ways to get liver that I had never heard of. I want to try their liverwurst some day. :)

    Thanks for passing the info on! I’d love to hear how your testing goes.

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    39 Liz J. March 28, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    I should mention that you should always consult with your doctor before taking herbal remedies. For instance licorice can make blood pressure go up.

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    40 carla April 27, 2014 at 5:33 am

    Thanks for this article ,I have found Acidophilus the only thing to tame my candida. We are GAPS house to support our daughters healing journey from autism 4 months in and continue to have brilliant results . Have found some good nuggets of advice to look into further here. Its occurs to me some of what we benefit from could be of use to others so I shall share a little. Other things we have tried and have had notable results with are Cranial osteotherapy , bentonite clay baths for gentle and natural metal chelation, olive leaf extract for immunity , homemade probiotics like coconut water kefir and sauerkraut. be warned taking to much raw cabbage is not good for thyroid.article explaining why here http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/think-raw-veggies-are-best-think-again/
    Has anyone here had any experience with parasites as I keep coming across articles that those with leaky gut are struggling to heal due to the damage the parasites inflict?

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    41 Liz J. April 28, 2014 at 12:38 am

    Hi Carla, thank you for sharing! Those are some helpful things to consider. Interesting about the acidophilus. I am fascinated in learning about which probiotics do which things. I think the future of medicine sould be there. I remember reading that for sinus infections, lactobacillas rhinocitis or something like that was the most effective. Seems like each one has unique properties that we should be taking advantage of. Very cool.
    I’ve never had a parasite that I was aware of, however interestingly, I was diagnosed with a granuloma annulare that just wouldn’t go away. It was a circular rash on my elbow that looked almost like ringworm. It stuck around for over a year until I finally decided to experiment with a parasite cleanse. Low and behold, it went away immediately. I am a huge believer in yearly parasite cleanses.
    Hooray for you and all you are lovingly doing for your family!

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    42 Liz J. March 30, 2014 at 1:30 am

    And don’t forget to consider heavy metals which can overload the body making it more susceptible to candida etc! Chlorella/spirulina and modified citrus pectin seem like good options.

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    43 Liz J. March 24, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    Oh looky here!:
    Looks like you can sign up for this thyroid seminar! How cool is that?! It loks like they will be sharing info on getting the right testing.

    http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2014/03/homemade-sandwich-bread-options-neat-pregnancy-time-lapse-video-thyroid-help-and-more-in-todays-monday-morning-mix-up-3242014.html

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    44 Leah McCullough March 28, 2014 at 7:16 am

    I thought I would share here that my book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia: 7 Steps to Complete Recovery will be available at http://www.FreedomFromFibro.com in mid-April. I have been recovered for over 5 years now and I have lost over 100 pounds. A lot of my recovery has to do with the nourishing food I have been eating a la WAPF and GAPS. If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me. I’m on Facebook as The Fibro Lady.

    To your health,
    Leah E. McCullough

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    45 Liz J. March 28, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Leah, itn’t this great to have a platform so others can see that this is being done? Congratulations on your recovery and your book!

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    46 jeannie March 28, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    Leah I cannot find you on FB and there is no info at your website yet. Can you give me the link to your FB page? Thank you!

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    47 Leah McCullough April 2, 2014 at 4:13 pm
    48 Amber Sebold March 28, 2014 at 7:52 am

    Thanks for sharing. What a great story. I too have cured my fibromyalgia. I’ve chosen to go Whole Foods Plant Based, but I noticed my fibro improving greatly long before I became full-time WFPB. I fully credit it to eating REAL food, no processed stuff anymore. I keep encouraging my friends with fibro to give it a try, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose! Hoping they do!

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    49 Liz J. March 28, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    Thank you Amber! Congratulations on your success!

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    50 Benjamin Revoy March 28, 2014 at 9:49 am

    I think this is a great article except FMS appear for many different reasons and aren’t fully understood by just about anybody so matter how much they argue. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as an example can plummet an otherwise healthy body into FMS and even when following healthy choices, seeing naturopaths and other experts the symptoms don’t go away. This is part of the difference between people who have symptoms because of a nutritional issue compared to people who are ill because either an unknown or psychological issue. We can’t over simplify FMS to say if you eat this way or take this supplement then you’ll be fine because all that does for many people if offer a temporary placebo effect which turns into non trust of the system. Look for the reasons why you have FMS and then look at a variety of treatments. Of course simply eating a balance diet won’t hurt, but don’t pin your whole hope on it “curing” FMS. Some people won’t be cured by what they eat or what supplements they take or what exercise they do. For some people in this world who are psychologically damaged beyond what their resources allow them to repair; a cure is not a reality. Focus on minimizing symptoms instead. Health is a spectrum no an on/off switch.

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    51 peggy March 28, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Benjamin I get your point that fibro is hard to cure for some people that have multiple issues. But my experiences disprove your comment about offering a temporary placebo effect- and teaching people about eating healthy is empowering them to love themselves- a big part of psychiatric treatment!! and nobody in these posts has said eat a certain way and you’ll be fine- we have shared our PERSONAL experiences with healing- and sometimes they can be the same for people. Most people who eat real foods long term are going to experiences improvment. I have wondered if I have too much damage psychologically and physically to every recover fully from CFS. My fibro is about 80% improved with diet and trace minerals. It’s rare I hear of cures of CFS and I wonder if the people that were cured had true CFS which often includes fibro, orthstatic condition, candida and other infections, iBS, and depression becasue CFS is a tough one to cure. Be aware that CFS causes psychological problems as well. Orthostatic conditions can cause anxiety. But please try to understand and be open to the fact that brain and nervous system health are PHYSICAL- nerve and tissue. As children our experiences actually wire our neurons. And our tissues/nerves/cells also have to have proper nutrition to work. So that can work along with brain /nervous system retraining such as therapy or CBT to help or heal. So supplements, diet, mindfulness and other mind/body work, and herbs can be affective treatments and can heal at times. In psychiatric hospitals they often use magnesium (sometimes zinc cures pica too) and it has been very helpful for me. I”m in a masters program for social work and will be going into mental health. I have learned that while some people have a lot fo damage there can be healing and if not an overall cure there can be cures in some areas. I have ADHD, a learning disability, anxiety, depression, trichtillomania, possible PTSD from childhood trauma. I have improved greatly in some areas with diet, mindfulness, and supplements. I can not eat some foods or it will make my psychiatric symtoms worse. I also developed the trich and another psychiatric issue that is related to OCD in midlife and both almost always start in children. I believe the candia, hormone imbalance, and gut health are causing the problems. After changing my diet and taking supplements for phsyical and mental issues I have come from being unable to work or do much cognitively to graduating with a BSW cum laude and now making A’s and B’s in an acclerated(35-40 hrs a week) graduate online program- going to be 50 this year! All with my learning difficulties and ten different medical conditions- couldnt have done that 20 years ago when I first got sick.

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    52 Liz J. March 30, 2014 at 1:34 am

    Wow Peggy, you are an inspiriation! The more I learn about you the more I am amazed at the spirit you have to overcome so much.

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    53 peggy March 30, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Thank you Liz :)

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    54 Liz J. March 28, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks for your comment Benjamin.
    I completely agree with you except for the placebo effect comment. If you haven’t seen it check out comment # 12 and my comments on pathology.

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    55 John Mellor March 28, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    I see 90% of people healed of fibromyalgia when I pray for them and often instantly. Do a Google video search ‘john Mellor fibromyalgia’ .
    Cheers
    John

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    56 Lisa M. March 28, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    Thank you for sharing this encouraging testimony. I am 42 and I have osteoarthritis and I am very anemic-I deal with a lot of inflammation. I often get bad ulcers on my esophagus from abusing nsaids. I know for a fact ‘my personal experience’ that diet has MUCH to do with getting better. I got really sick a couple of years ago and ended up with candida and didn’t have a choice but to change my diet. I only had certain veggies (mostly just salads). I couldn’t have aged cheese. When I ate that way for two months I saw an immediate improvement and for the first time had energy and mild aches. But I work a lot and fell back into poor eating habits. And I kept feeling the prompting inside to change my diet again and just out of stupidity have not, until today. All this week I have been in what feels like unbearable pains. After reading this story it confirmed and tugged at my heart that this is what I need to do. Your testimony has encouraged me to do what I know brings healing to the body and mind. Thank you!!

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    57 Liz J. March 29, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Thanks for your open hearted response! Whenever I have had changes to make in my life, my wise father always says to do at least one thing each day to move in the direction you want to go. Even if it seems miniscule, every little thing that keeps you in the right direction is what eventually gets you there. I am so touched that this has helped you!

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    58 david March 29, 2014 at 4:23 am

    nonesense.

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    59 Mandi March 29, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    So I’m glad that you’ve been able to reduce your symptoms and get yourself into a natural remission through clean eating. However, throwing around the word cured? Really? Autoimmune disorders are built into our DNA; it’s hard-coded into who we ARE. So, unless you’ve done some seriously radical genetic work on yourself, please don’t say you cured anything, because, in fact, you’ve not. I do applaud you for taking the reigns of your own health care and kicking toxic meds to the curb; this is something that I am working on myself, however, you’ve achieved what most of us can only hope for: a stable remission. To say you cured yourself is honestly a smack in the face to others with AI. It’s like making a joke about being pregnant to someone who struggles with infertility or constant miscarriage; it isn’t cute and it’s not helpful.

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    60 peggy March 29, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Mandi, I hadn’t read or heard that fibro was an autoimmune. Can you please pass some information on about that? I have CFS and fibro but the fibro is about 80%% subdued. I know CFS affects the immune system and many who have CFS have fibro and many have orthostatic conditions. My son has inherited CFS and orthostatic but has no fibro thank god. he also gets bacterial infections easily and has chroinic candida- he can’t even eat beans or fruit without getting a reaction. I’m interesting in any info about genetics because of helping him and thinking about his future generations.

    Reply

    61 Liz J. March 29, 2014 at 9:22 pm

    Mandi,
    The jury is still out as far as I’ve seen, as to wether or not FMS is an autoimmune issue. After all, how could anyone know that when the pathology hasn’t been discovered and completely understood yet? As far as I have seen, there are some good arguments against it. And then, if it’s found to be autoimmune, and genetic, and genetics are the end of the line, then why are so many people having success reversing autoimmune issues with the GAPS diet? There is evidence that flora and digestive health are hugely related to autoimmune issues, so the flora being passed on (or not) from parent to child may be more responsible than genes, but make it appear to be genetic. Consider that genes can be turned off/on with nutrition, some better than others. There is some awesome research going on that is empowering in this regard. Here’s just one that I happened to see with a quick google search:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14512029

    I hope that you can come to see that sharing my experience is not insensitive to other’s suffering. It’s about having enough compassion for people who are suffering as I have, to take all of this time and energy to offer up potential hope and considerations they may appreciate. It’s about being grateful and paying it forward. I have a hard time understanding why you’d compare it to joking about being pregnant to someone who struggles with those issues. Perceiving my story as a slap in the face is your choice, and based on faulty thinking. You could also choose to take what you can learn from this and be grateful. It is not my story that is a slap in the face, that is how you chose to perceive it.
    I wish you the best in your healing journey.

    Reply

    62 KitchenKop March 29, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    Very very well done, Liz, thank you for your wisdom and kindness!
    Kelly

    Reply

    63 Liz J. March 30, 2014 at 1:41 am

    Thank you so much! It really means a lot to me especially coming from you!

    Reply

    64 Caroline March 29, 2014 at 4:34 pm

    Quote by Hippocrates “Let food be they medicine and medicine be they food” I 100% believe this yes ofcourse everyone has different causes for their fibro myself i had a lot of physical trauma which caused nervous system sensitisation, I have connective tissue damage, nerves are irritated etc It will take years for me to fully heal and how am i doing that, naturopath, food, acupuncture a wholistic approach to healing6 months ago i could barely walk i am now functioning so i do believe this. If your taking meds then you’re body will never heal because your poisioning your body with toxins thankyou for this story

    Reply

    65 Liz J. March 29, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    Caroline, great quote- I might just have to make a plaque to go in the kitchen to remind my children :)
    I love that you are doing all that you are to move forward. A good friend who was really into Anthony Robbins once told me the key to success is being prepared when the right opportunity arrives. Sounds like you are preparing your body for the opportunity to heal. Best regards.

    Reply

    66 Karis April 14, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Hey all, let me first say I’m not trying to offend ppl! All I’m saying is you can reduce pain and symptoms by dieting, exercising ands number of other things! I commend all of you you can reduce your symptoms and pain! But there still is no “cure” and I refuse to give anyone false hope. There is a huge difference between hope and false hope. When I work with my elderly patients I will not give them false hope even if it’s not the greatest news I will be honest at least with their family member. The patient I tell them remember your working to go home otherwise you might have to stay in the nursing home. I refuse to say oh your doing just fine. So yes to all who suffer try everything out there don’t give up hope and if something works for you fantastic but remember it’s truly not a cure! Oh I am a healthcare professional! Thanks all. Again not trying to offend ppl.

    Reply

    67 Liz J. April 14, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Karis, I don’t take offense to your opinion, and appreciate that you encourage people to find what works for them, however I don’t understand how anyone can say there is no cure for something that doesn’t have a known pathology. FMS is not a true disease, but rather a group of symptoms. When doctors can’t figure it out and it fits into the category of symptoms of FMS, it’s a doctor’s way of saying , “I don’t know” without having to say so. It ‘s really just a problem of doctors being limited to their scope and failing to see the body as all of it’s systems, not just the part they specialize in. There should be a network of specialties including naturopaths Networked together to get to the bottom of things but I’ve never seen a clinic like that. Many of us have heavy metal toxicity that goes undiagnosed because we get sent to a nerologist and they can’t see anything wrong with the nerves. A simple test could get to the bottom of it, and something could be done. Some of us might have thyroid/adrenal issues that get undiagnosed because standard testing looks for the wrong things. Some of us might be simply sensitive to certain foods. Some have PTSD that drains the adrenals. There are so many things to consider that cause FMS symptoms. I never had a doctor consider any of these things before putting the FMS stamp on me. My story isn’t about false hope, it’s about digging deeper. Saying there is not cure for a group of symptoms that we don’t know the cause of is giving false sense of doom.

    Reply

    68 Allen ACL April 15, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    Liz: Thank you for sharing a bit about your story. I am curious to know if you would be willing to give a bit more information about the “timeline,” of your recovery. I have been following the gaps diet and iodine protocol for 1-2 years now and have not yet experienced positive results. I still sometimes go without sleep for days at a time and am usually unable to care for my family. It is not unusual for me to be too weak to stand up during the course of a day. I had understood that the iodine protocol would bring about more restorative sleep. However, so far, the insomnia I have had for the last eight years remains as intractable as ever. If you don’t mind my asking, how long were you on the “fibromylagia recovery,” protocol developed by your friend, Brenda, before you began to sleep better, feel better and have a higher functioning metabolism, etc? I am sorry to say I have been wondering lately if I should be working so hard to recover, because whether I do the work (Gaps diet, iodine, probiotics, probiotic foods, etc.) or do not do the work, I seem to feel about the same…Many thanks in advance for any advice you are able to offer!

    Reply

    69 Liz J. April 16, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Allen ACL, I am so glad you commented. You brought up some crucial topics. It took me at least 6 years before I realized something was really working without having any more bad days. On the guaifennessin sp? protocol I felt like I was better about 70% of the time. I worked diligently on this for 3 years. Now I know that it was probably helping my glial cells calm down, which I think the iodine does. It may have killed off some candida etc. as well. When I started bombarding my body with probiotics I had more bad days again due to die off, but got remarkably better on my good days. The probiotics could have also been detoxing heavy metals wich would make a person feel worse for a while. After doing a couple fitness shows I realized how much better I felt after eating low carb, but what I didn’t realize it was that it was avoiding wheat that I am sensitive to that made the diffence. I thought I was killing off candida, but have since learned that I just made it fight harder or go dormant. Every time I ate the slightest sugar I got hit very hard with candida symptoms. I felt like it was going to be a very tough battle for the rest of my life and wondered how I would be able to keep it up.

    Then came the iodine and the WAPF diet. It’s been 7 years now with that, so for me, I spent about a year detoxing bromides and introducing fermeted cod liver oil and butter and soaking grains and fermenting veggies etc. At this point I was hitting it hard and making drastic changes, and just one year later realized it was working. The last issue I had was dizzyness upon standing. Making an herbal tincture for the adrenals and getting to bed by 10 and not letting my body go into the seccond wind mode resolved that.

    So let’s troubleshoot.
    My dear sweet mother began taking the iodine protocol and complained about not being able to sleep. After several months of this it finally dawned on me (sorry mom) to ask what time she was taking it. “Before bed” was her answer…She switched to morning and the problem was immediately resolved. This doesn’t sound like your issue but thought I’d throw that out there for anyone reading who might want to know.

    How’s your magnesium status? Are you taking calcium or anything else that might interfere with magnesium? I’m guessing you’ve tried epsom salt baths, or better yet magnesium chloride spray. If not, that is the big game changer for most people with FMS. I love my raw goat milk, but have noticed I have to work a little harder to keep my magnesium up when the milk is in high supply.

    Maybe look into anything that can get your circadian rythms balanced. Brain wave balancing made a huge difference for me. I found an app called “brain wave” that is so easy to do. The left and right brain aren’t always in agreement and can have different agendas.

    Cranial sacral therapy might be just the thing as well. Aligning the plates in the head can help circadian rythms. I’ve never done this, but a former client does this for a living and gave me the scoop.

    Heavy metals perhaps?

    What stands out most to me is being on GAPS and not having energy. If you do a google search on troubleshooting GAPS you can find numerous people who have learned that they were not getting enough carbs and/or fat. That would certainly effect your sleep and energy. How is your carb intake? I am of the belief that the thyroid doesn’t like low-carb, so eventually adrenals too. Interestingly adrenals are more responsible for balancing blood sugar than the pancreas, so carb intake will effect them one way or another. Too much can certainly be harmful as well.

    I have to run for now, but I’d love to carry on this conversation and learn if any of this applies.

    Take care!

    Reply

    70 Allen ACL April 16, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Liz: Thank you for the advice. Honestly, it is in some ways a great relief to me to hear that it took you quite a long time to feel better. I don’t mind putting in the work if it is leading me toward healing, but that (long) period of time where you don’t know if something is working is so very confusing.
    So, to answer your questions and ask a couple of my own:
    Yes, I do take magnesium taurate. 725 mg per day. I don’t know if that is enough, but it is what I am taking at present. I do not take calcium, though I drink an eight ounce glass of homemade, raw kefir everyday, so, obviously, I am getting some calcium…
    And as for low-carb on GAPS, yes, I think you are correct, it is hard to get enough carbs on the gaps diet, though I am actively trying to do so. I am shooting for 350-400 grams of carbs a day. HOWEVER, the only problem with that is, if I eat, for instance, I serving of potatoes to try and make sure I am getting enough carbs, I will experience a flare-up of yeast! It’s kind of baffling, really–everybody says, “Make sure you are getting enough carbs!” And I do try, but when I eat carbs, my body is almost immediately overrun with yeast problems. I have no idea what I can do about it. Incidentally, whenever I eat carbs, I also wake up the next morning so stiff I can hardly move–not sure what to do about that either! Any thoughts? I would be happy to try any suggestions you have…

    In regards to sleep problems: As for iodine, yes, I do take it first thing in the morning. In fact, I take all of my supplements during the first half of the day so that nothing will interfere with sleep. I do try to go to bed early (last night I went to bed at nine, but I did not sleep until three). My conventional med docs have tried every sleep med on the planet for me, including antidepressants. Ambien seems to be just about the only thing that gets me to sleep and gives me a full night of sleep. And I really can not communicate enough how much I dislike Ambien. Taking medication is for the birds! I have also tried every herbal combination in the history of mankind. None of it seems to help. I have listened to brain wave cd’s, practiced meditation, prayer and relaxation exercises for years. None of it works. My body seems to only be willing to fall asleep between the hours of three am and 6am and I have no idea why! I have had saliva tests done to see if my stress hormones increase at night, and they definitely do, but none of my docs has been sure how to get them back down. And I think that my sleep hygiene is excellent. I am very mindful to keep things calm, quiet, dark and peaceful at night and actually, I feel completely relaxed when I go to bed–I have the most comfortable bed in the world and a pretty great husband to cuddle up to! But none of it seems to help with the actual sleeping part! Do you mind if I ask what you did, specifically, that got you sleeping properly, again?
    Also, an unrelated question: Since beginning to increase my dose of iodine, I have what look sort of like burn marks all over my face–these red splotchy patches of skin–so, now, on top of all of my other delightful issues, I look very, very odd, indeed! I am not sure what to do about it. Did you ever experience odd skin problems with iodine?

    Okay, so I suppose those are my initial questions for you. I appreciate more than I can say that you are taking time out of your own life to help other people trying to recover. It is a great kindness. Many thanks for your help and take care of yourself!

    Reply

    71 peggy April 16, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Allen I’m able to eat new potatoes and beans which don’t aggravate the candida. But I do take a supplement made from castor bean for the yeast every day and probiotic. New potatoes are one of the first starches the GAPS diet says to introduce and they are moderate glycemic and even lower if you eat them cold or warmed up after being cold. I’ve read where some diabetics say the small new potatoes don’t run their blood sugar up. I have to take quite a few things to sleep but sleep better than I have since I came down with CFS and I don’t wake up groggy. I take 4 passionflower natures answer brand, 6 mg melatonin, and 30 mg buspirone which is a prescription for anxiety but it has very few side effects. I used to take buspirone a lot during the day but the magnesium has chilled me out enough that I don’t have to take it as much. I have also take the “fatigued to fantasic” brand sleep formula and that worked but had to take the maximum dose to sleep and now that I have to do low oxalate diet have to watch a lot of herbs. Some people are also finding relief with low oxalte diet and fibro- most grains are high in oxalates. My son and I both get candida with eating grains and I have to keep fruit and new potatoes to small servings too.

    Reply

    72 Liz J. April 18, 2014 at 12:31 am

    Allen ACL,
    Ok so for the yeast/carb dilemma, I went throught that as well. It was perplexing. I came accross this:
    http://drmccombs.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/10-candida-myths/#comment-223

    I read it thoroughly and came to the conclusion that if I couldn’t knock it down with fermented veggies and kefir I’d buy his enzymes. I figured until then, I’d stop fighting it the usual way and think more about enzymes in fermented foods. I found out that sometimes kefir grains and other ferments can get contaminated with candida so to be safe I started over with new grains and a new kombucha SCOBY. I had made my own SCOBY from storebought kombucha but after getting a rash on my face and doing some research, found out after a while it gets out of balance because it is formulated different. New SCOBY and grains, no more issues! Also I really believe focusing on the adrenals/thyroid/pituitary is key. Avoiding sugar is supposed to help a part of the pituitary (anterior or posterior, not sure wich) so there are many reasons to avoid it, although I think long term there’s gotta be a better way to fight candida. The adrenal issue can be such a catch-22 though isn’t it?! But if you can find something that helps them it should knock back the candida automatically.

    Another thing I should mention is once a year I do a parasite cleanse. I get cloves, black walnut, and wormwood tinctures from Rhea’s herbal extractions through Azure Standard, but I’m sure you can get it online. After a round of this the candida hasn’t been an issue and I can eat a treat once in a while without a huge backlash. It comes with a schedule to take it, but it is really complicated to follow. Well worth it though.

    Kelly mentioned to me a candida fighting supplement that might be helpful. Maybe she would like to coment on that?

    My naturopath said that oral magnesium isn’t effective but on the skin does wonders. Apparently after 6 months of oral supplementation (I have no idea what form they used) levels did not increase at all. From my research, epsom salt baths are great, but magnesium chloride is reported to stay in the body and do more good. I make magnesim oil by adding distilled water to magnesium chloride flakes. I let it sit and add more water if it doesn’t all dissolve, then put some in a spray bottle and spray it on. At first it can sting a little but after a few times this stopped. I mostly just spray it on my tummy very liberally.

    Other things to consider:

    How are your vitamin D levels? Adrenals need a LOT to heal.

    As for the reactions to iodine, the iodine4health yahoo group is essential support when supplementing with iodine. It takes some troubleshooting to get all the companion nutrients right to help with bromide detox. The skin issues etc are very typical of bromide detox. The protocol consists of companion nutrients and good quality salt. The typical recommendation is to put 1/4 tsp salt in warm water and drink it. Some people recommend much more. This is followed by drinking lots of water. The idea is the chloride in the salt binds to the bromide to get it out through the kidneys. Without the salt, the bromides get stirred around but can’t get out. Are you familliar with the whole protocol? According to some good research done by Chriss Kresser, selenium is the crucial factor in iodine supplementation. Without it, iodine can damage the thyroid and cause all sorts of problems, but with selenium it doesn’t appear to. Needs are all very different too. I come from Scottish ancestors and my iodine loading test showed I get deficient quickly. Some people seem to see great benefit by just eating carefully sourced seaweed. Someday I would love to switch to that if I could find a source I could trust. There are so many other nutrients that come in the natural package that work together.

    I hope you don’t mind me saying, but your goal on carbs seems really high to me. Maybe you have some good reasons that I can learn from. I try for 120-200 grams a day. Why are you aiming for 350-400? How much do you suspect you get currently? I also keep my protein up to at least 90-100g and my fats I enjoy enough to make my food taste good and to feel satisfied. I have no idea how much fat I get.

    Some people are made to eat more carbs than others. Asian’s salivary glands and pancreases are twice the size of a caucasion’s so their bodies are made to eat lots of carbs. Maybe do some research on your ancestry?

    Oh and I wish I had a clear answer as to what I did for sleep, but I’m really not sure. I would be almost willing to bet that it had to do with fixing a nutrient deficiency.

    I’ve got to run, but I look forward to more discussion with you!

    Reply

    73 KitchenKop April 18, 2014 at 7:30 am

    Here is the candida fighter that I will probably post about soon, a friend told me about it:
    http://amzn.to/1hQQXaD

    Kelly

    Reply

    74 Liz J. April 19, 2014 at 10:53 am

    The prepper in me thinks that would be awesome to stock up on after reading the reviews. It amazes me how often I read about people using natural antimicrobial plants with success after prescription antibiotics fail them.

    Reply

    75 Jennette Miller April 16, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    I have had my thyroid removed, my thymus removed and my gallbladder, my left kidney, my ovaries and uterus and a portion of my bladder and vagina. Cancer in the thyroid, none in the abdominal tumor which was endometrial. Can a diet with added iodine help me? I have diarrhea every day and much craving for sweets and chocolate but I don’t consume much meat. I don’t want to start something that my body isn’t going to benefit from. I feel like I’m in a class all my own.

    Reply

    76 Liz J. April 18, 2014 at 1:32 am

    Hi Jenette,
    It sounds like you have been through so much.
    It is certainly possible that iodine could help. Dr. Flechas told me that a woman he was treating had bladder cancer and cured it with iodine. Unfortunately she found out it was cured too late. Her son was a doctor and had urged her to get the surgery to remove the bladder. She decided to take the iodine, but didn’t want to miss the surgery in case it hadn’t worked. After they removed the bladder they could not find cancer in it. It does cause apoptosis of fast growing cells, which is why it’s not recommmended topically anymore for incisions that are trying to heal.
    If I remember right the Gerson institute uses iodine as part of their cancer treatment protocol now. Craving for sweets can indicate lack of protein. Gut imbalance can sure do that too. Craving for chocolate can indicate low magnesium. Whenever I get consistant with epsom salt baths, I stop craving chocolate.
    Some doctors believe iodine is just for the thyroid and that there are no receptors in the gut, however this is misinformation. The cells in the gut need it too. It can even help kill off candida etc. if taken in the liquid form. It also makes hormone receptors, except for estrogen, more sensitive. So it has been helpful for fighting estrogen dominant cancer as well. breastcancechoices.org would be a great place to read up on the effects iodine can have on certain cancers. If you find iodine is right for you, be sure to do the whole protocol as described in the mentioned site. Without selenium iodine can be trouble. The other nutrients are crucial to keep detox pathways open, which would be helpful even without the iodine. I hope the best for you.

    Reply

    77 Allen ACL April 16, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    Liz, I hope you don’t mind if I ask another question: I have read in a number of different places that taking substantial doses of iodine can be “toxic,” and that it can result in things like skin eruptions, acne, asthma, hives, etc. etc. I have had problems with all of these things since I began using the iodine protocol, so I suppose that would seem to indicate that I am sensitive to it. What are your own thoughts on this matter? If a person takes iodine but then begins to have issues like hives, edema, asthma and acne, should they continue on with the protocol anyway? Do these symptoms resolve themselves? Is there anything I ought to be doing to make these symptoms better?
    Again, I greatly appreciate your help!
    Many thanks, Allen ACL

    Reply

    78 jmr April 17, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Allen ACL, some people have these symptoms as a detox or because they aren’t taking the correct companion nutrients, and some have these symptoms because the iodine protocol isn’t for them. I have never tried the iodine protocol. I have wanted to, but something in me screams loudly every time I consider it that it is a really, really bad idea for me despite the great success others have had with it. Interestingly, a few years ago, a naturopath did some muscle testing on me and I reacted extremely negatively to iodine. An iodine loading test also showed good levels. Not every treatment will work for every person. You have to experiment and see what works for you and what doesn’t work for you.

    Reply

    79 Liz J. April 18, 2014 at 1:47 am

    jmr is right. Bromide detox is one of the misunderstood reactions to iodine that gives it a bad rap. All of the hallogens that compete for iodine receptors: chlorine, flouride and bromide start detoxing out with iodine. I think it even helps with heavy metals. I am planning on doing another gueat post for Kelly soon to talk more about keeping detox pathways open whether for candida die off or iodine or any other detox program. If detox pathways are not working properly it can do more harm than good to detox. I am not sure at what point to draw the line and stop iodine based on the symptoms you mentioned. I would trust the people over at iodine4health yahoo group though to help sort that out.

    Reply

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